Bad transaction between me and Forum member GreatEscape

[GACollectibles]

It should never have gotten to this point Dino. He wasn't happy with the book. You refused to accept a return. I haven't seen you dispute this. Everything else is not worth discussing.

 

Respectfully, Andy wasn't happy with the CGC grade. When he got the book, he chose to keep the book with the partial refund. If it came back restored, there would be no issue.

 

Just so I'm clear...are you endorsing that if you buy a book from a fellow boardie (dealer or collector alike) and are later disappointed with the CGC grade-- undisclosed restoration notwithstanding-- that you deserve a refund?

 

 

All by itself, no. Grade issue(restoration notwithstanding) should be addressed upon receipt of the book.

[GreatEscape]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

"I also know from first hand experience that a Q8.5 book with a 1.5" spine split can be resubmitted to CGC for a 5.0 Universal grade. Based on my experience with CGC and the OGG standards, up to a 2" spine split are an acceptable flaw at 5.0 and below."

 

"I agree with that. I helped the 'Trooper get one of his mini-grails last year and it looked between 8.5 and 9.0 but with a 2" and a 1 1/4" spine split, it was graded out at 4.0 or so, maybe 4.5."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[qualitycomix]

It should never have gotten to this point Dino. He wasn't happy with the book. You refused to accept a return. I haven't seen you dispute this. Everything else is not worth discussing.

 

Respectfully, Andy wasn't happy with the CGC grade. When he got the book, he chose to keep the book with the partial refund. If it came back restored, there would be no issue.

 

Just so I'm clear...are you endorsing that if you buy a book from a fellow boardie (dealer or collector alike) and are later disappointed with the CGC grade-- undisclosed restoration notwithstanding-- that you deserve a refund?

 

 

Did Andy ask for a full refund or not?

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

What did the book grade out the 1st time?

[comicdonna]

Dino:

 

After hearing both sides of the story, I feel that Andy should be compensated at least 100% of the purchase price. It doesn't matter wether or not you sold a book to a board member through ebay or the boards. It's my sugestion that you pay him or it will drastically hurt your reputation as a seller on these boards.

 

Mike

 

Edited! $750 to make the transaction right.

 

I respect everyone's opinions and therefore I'll be sending $750 to Andy to resolve this. It is, however, disheartening that this forum-- as a defacto public jury-- would see so many serve judgment before hearing both sides.

 

Dino

Just to be clear, you sent Andy a $180 partial refund prior to today right?

 

Yes, partial refund back in April. Andy examined the book in hand and asked for a partial refund (which I promptly provided) in lieu of a return. The last refund request came last month after getting CGC grade. Omitted from Andy's description was that the two spine splits were disclosed and even pictured in my eBay listing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am glad to hear that you are making things right Dino! (thumbs u

[homerwannabee]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK, so let's get this straight. You had this book graded in the Spare a grade forum, and the range is 2.5 to 5.0, yet you go ahead and list the book as 4.0 to 7.0? You know if you had originally gone with around the median of 3.5 to 4.0 you would not have had this problem to begin with. You yourself decided to ignore virtually everyone giving you advice and list the grade on the high end with a 4.0 to 7.0. This is the problem. Surprising you would actually use this as evidence to support your case.

[GreatEscape]

 

Bottom line is Andy will be getting his refund and much deserved satisfaction. I'm positive that we'll both be able to move forward.

[CKB]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

"I also know from first hand experience that a Q8.5 book with a 1.5" spine split can be resubmitted to CGC for a 5.0 Universal grade. Based on my experience with CGC and the OGG standards, up to a 2" spine split are an acceptable flaw at 5.0 and below."

 

"I agree with that. I helped the 'Trooper get one of his mini-grails last year and it looked between 8.5 and 9.0 but with a 2" and a 1 1/4" spine split, it was graded out at 4.0 or so, maybe 4.5."

 

 

In the above context, "spine split" means the cover is split, not the ENTIRE BOOK. You know this. Why are you posting the above?

 

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

Bottom line is Andy will be getting his refund and much deserved satisfaction. I'm positive that we'll both be able to move forward.

 

Sounds like justice is served... The boards really do work. (thumbs u

[GreatEscape]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

 

 

OK, so let's get this straight. You had this book graded in the Spare a grade forum, and the range is 2.5 to 5.0, yet you go ahead and list the book as 4.0 to 7.0? You know if you had originally gone with around the median of 3.5 to 4.0 you would not have had this problem to begin with. You yourself decided to ignore virtually everyone giving you advice and list the grade on the high end with a 4.0 to 7.0. This is the problem. Surprising you would actually use this as evidence to support your case.

 

I meant VG/F (4.0 - 5.0) I edited my comment 2 seconds later. Guys, I know it feels great to pile on but take it down a notch please.

 

 

[snitzer]

Bottom line is Andy will be getting his refund and much deserved satisfaction. I'm positive that we'll both be able to move forward.

 

(thumbs u

[Point Five]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

"I also know from first hand experience that a Q8.5 book with a 1.5" spine split can be resubmitted to CGC for a 5.0 Universal grade. Based on my experience with CGC and the OGG standards, up to a 2" spine split are an acceptable flaw at 5.0 and below."

 

"I agree with that. I helped the 'Trooper get one of his mini-grails last year and it looked between 8.5 and 9.0 but with a 2" and a 1 1/4" spine split, it was graded out at 4.0 or so, maybe 4.5."

 

This is interesting data, but... going by Andy's description of the book, all of the book's pages were split in these areas, not just the cover. (And I say that not to bash you, as it could help explain how your original description might have led him to be unhappy with the book in the first place, regardless of what grade you were putting on it.)

[GreatEscape]

 

I'd like to offer that CGC's determination of Brittle pages capped the grade at 2.5....otherwise, we simply can't predict what CGC would have graded it with splits, etc.

 

What was the final verdict on refunds post-CGC grading? If I were on the other side, having purchased raw books from fellow boardies with CGC grades that fell short (resto aside), would I deserve add'l compensation?

 

Last week, I would have said no...

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

Honestly, GE has agreed to make this right and hopefully, a lesson has been learned, if a buyer asks for a full refund, give it to him/her. That really is the only way to avoid hard feelings and it's the easiest thing in the long run. You get the book back, if it's in the same condition, just resell it.

[ChasingKingKirby]

I'd like to offer that CGC's determination of Brittle pages capped the grade at 2.5....otherwise, we simply can't predict what CGC would have graded it with splits, etc.

 

What was the final verdict on refunds post-CGC grading? If I were on the other side, having purchased raw books from fellow boardies with CGC grades that fell short (resto aside), would I deserve add'l compensation?

 

Last week, I would have said no...

 

 

Personally, I would say no, EXCEPT he wasn't happy when he got the book and asked for a refund at that point. That's when CGC got pulled into it.

[Shootydog]

Honestly, GE has agreed to make this right and hopefully, a lesson has been learned, if a buyer asks for a full refund, give it to him/her. That really is the only way to avoid hard feelings and it's the easiest thing in the long run. You get the book back, if it's in the same condition, just resell it.

 

there is no way that I would refund money on a raw book after CGC grades it. If you are unhappy with the book before CGC grading.....ok...and within a reasonable time frame. But not after grading has been performed 2 or 3 months later.

 

It is unreasonable to expect that kind of return policy. Dissatisfaction with a CGC grade should not be a factor in refunding on a raw book purchase.

 

 

[GreatEscape]

 

Edited: Question answered by GAcollectibles above:

 

All by itself, no. Grade issue (restoration notwithstanding) should be addressed upon receipt of the book.

[goldust40]

This is interesting data, but... going by Andy's description of the book, all of the book's pages were split in these areas, not just the cover. (And I say that not to bash you, as it could help explain how your original description might have led him to be unhappy with the book in the first place, regardless of what grade you were putting on it.)

 

They were, but I should point out that the main problem with the book (despite this) was the heavily tanned / brittle pages.

 

Excuse my absence, I've been out all day seeing a collection (of sorts).

 

I should point out that GE's last email (that mentions "dirty laundry") was sent today after this thread was in full flow. The remainder of the email reiterated again about how subjective page quality is, although there is too much of a disparity between his designation and the actual page quality as far as I'm concerned. I would say that the term "brittle" denotes a structural problem that goes beyond the usual page quality definitions - i.e. that the book is fragile.

 

In any case I agree in principal that both sides of the story must be heard, and that posting such a thread in the first place would create an emotional response with this board. I also would like to commend GE on his cordial email response (even though I fundamentally disagree on all his points), although I should also point out, as I did in my opening post, that he had had enough warning time regarding this matter being aired here, and could have dealt with it beforehand.

 

I am happy to accept $750 from GreatEscape as a means to resolve this matter and will, once the payment has been received, cease my correspondence on this topic.

 

Thank you everyone.

 

Andy.

[comics-rock]

Bottom line is Andy will be getting his refund and much deserved satisfaction. I'm positive that we'll both be able to move forward.

 

it should end here...Dino's stepping up and doing the right thing....

[Point Five]

This is interesting data, but... going by Andy's description of the book, all of the book's pages were split in these areas, not just the cover. (And I say that not to bash you, as it could help explain how your original description might have led him to be unhappy with the book in the first place, regardless of what grade you were putting on it.)

 

They were, but I should point out that the main problem with the book (despite this) was the heavily tanned / brittle pages.

 

Excuse my absence, I've been out all day seeing a collection (of sorts).

 

I should point out that GE's last email (that mentions "dirty laundry") was sent today after this thread was in full flow. The remainder of the email reiterated again about how subjective page quality is, although there is too much of a disparity between his designation and the actual page quality as far as I'm concerned. I would say that the term "brittle" denotes a structural problem that goes beyond the usual page quality definitions - i.e. that the book is fragile.

 

In any case I agree in principal that both sides of the story must be heard, and that posting such a thread in the first place would create an emotional response with this board. I also would like to commend GE on his cordial email response (even though I fundamentally disagree on all his points), although I should also point out, as I did in my opening post, that he had had enough warning time regarding this matter being aired here, and could have dealt with it beforehand.

 

I am happy to accept $750 from GreatEscape as a means to resolve this matter and will, once the payment has been received, cease my correspondence on this topic.

 

Thank you everyone.

 

Andy.

(thumbs u