Bad transaction between me and Forum member GreatEscape

[PokerKid]

I'd like to offer that CGC's determination of Brittle pages capped the grade at 2.5....otherwise, we simply can't predict what CGC would have graded it with splits, etc.

 

What was the final verdict on refunds post-CGC grading? If I were on the other side, having purchased raw books from fellow boardies with CGC grades that fell short (resto aside), would I deserve add'l compensation?

 

Last week, I would have said no...

 

 

First, I am glad you came on to express your view but also follow through in making this situation right with the buyer.

 

I would say yes, a refund is due. However, if the buyer relied on CGC to make the call instead of himself, I would not expect to reimburse for CGC fees, just a refund on the book. I was fortunate that a dealer - a Las Vegas dealer who the boards are not fond of - refund my eBay purchase that worked out in this manner when I was just getting back into collecting. Because he did that, I had no problem buying a Rockford book for my collection from him. Part of the cost of doing business is taking responsibility when the customer isn't happy. If the worst case is that you get back the book you started with, neither side is hurt too much, so I would always say a refund in a reasonable time period should be the norm - especially on these boards with members we respect.

[GreatEscape]

 

Thanks Andy. My apologies for, well, all this trouble.

[seanfingh]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

"I also know from first hand experience that a Q8.5 book with a 1.5" spine split can be resubmitted to CGC for a 5.0 Universal grade. Based on my experience with CGC and the OGG standards, up to a 2" spine split are an acceptable flaw at 5.0 and below."

 

"I agree with that. I helped the 'Trooper get one of his mini-grails last year and it looked between 8.5 and 9.0 but with a 2" and a 1 1/4" spine split, it was graded out at 4.0 or so, maybe 4.5."

 

 

In the above context, "spine split" means the cover is split, not the ENTIRE BOOK. You know this. Why are you posting the above?

 

 

The second quote is from me, and yes, that referred to a spine split on the cover, not going through the entire book.

[Boozad]

Thanks Andy. My apologies for, well, all this trouble.

 

[500Club]

Dino:

 

After hearing both sides of the story, I feel that Andy should be compensated at least 100% of the purchase price. It doesn't matter wether or not you sold a book to a board member through ebay or the boards. It's my sugestion that you pay him or it will drastically hurt your reputation as a seller on these boards.

 

Mike

 

Edited! $750 to make the transaction right.

 

I respect everyone's opinions and therefore I'll be sending $750 to Andy to resolve this. It is, however, disheartening that this forum-- as a defacto public jury-- would see so many serve judgment before hearing both sides.

 

Dino

 

Get down off that cross before you hurt yourself!

[Sal]

If all's well that ends well, then I guess it stands to reason that all's fair to middling that ends fair to middling.

 

Glad to see this unfortunate situation could finally get to a middle area

[qualitycomix]

Thanks Andy. My apologies for, well, all this trouble.

 

Way to step up. In this thread, you handled things very professionally.

[osborn_fr]

This "happy ending" thread raises a question to me:

 

Do you think i should ask for money when the books i sold came back from CGC with a higher grade (and i know some...)

[Boozad]

This "happy ending" thread raises a question to me:

 

Do you think i should ask for money when the books i sold came back from CGC with a higher grade (and i know some...)

 

If that was the case F_T would be a millionaire.

[CKB]

This "happy ending" thread raises a question to me:

 

Do you think i should ask for money when the books i sold came back from CGC with a higher grade (and i know some...)

 

No, you should send them to CGC before selling them...

[CKB]

I'd like to offer that CGC's determination of Brittle pages capped the grade at 2.5....otherwise, we simply can't predict what CGC would have graded it with splits, etc.

 

Glad to see this all worked out with buyer and seller, but the grading discussion is still interesting to me.

 

While there may be a cap in place for books with brittle pages, I cannot imagine a grade above the Good range for a book with the splits described. If I had my OGG in front of me I think I could produce ample evidence for a Fair or Fair/Good grade.

 

For my next submission I will take a modern NM book and cut the spine with a scissor 1.5" on the top and bottom and see what comes back from CGC.

 

 

[Point Five]

For my next submission I will take a modern NM book and cut the spine with a scissor 1.5" on the top and bottom and see what comes back from CGC.

Careful how you cut. It might come back in a purple label, "left edge trimmed".

[DR.X]

For my next submission I will take a modern NM book and cut the spine with a scissor 1.5" on the top and bottom and see what comes back from CGC.

 

The term is actually "SPLIT SPINE". I think you need to lay the book on a stump and give it two good whacks with an ax.

 

 

DRX

[thehumantorch]

For my next submission I will take a modern NM book and cut the spine with a scissor 1.5" on the top and bottom and see what comes back from CGC.

Careful how you cut. It might come back in a purple label, "left edge trimmed".

 

Bad boy Bad boy

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

This is interesting data, but... going by Andy's description of the book, all of the book's pages were split in these areas, not just the cover. (And I say that not to bash you, as it could help explain how your original description might have led him to be unhappy with the book in the first place, regardless of what grade you were putting on it.)

 

They were, but I should point out that the main problem with the book (despite this) was the heavily tanned / brittle pages.

 

Excuse my absence, I've been out all day seeing a collection (of sorts).

 

I should point out that GE's last email (that mentions "dirty laundry") was sent today after this thread was in full flow. The remainder of the email reiterated again about how subjective page quality is, although there is too much of a disparity between his designation and the actual page quality as far as I'm concerned. I would say that the term "brittle" denotes a structural problem that goes beyond the usual page quality definitions - i.e. that the book is fragile.

 

In any case I agree in principal that both sides of the story must be heard, and that posting such a thread in the first place would create an emotional response with this board. I also would like to commend GE on his cordial email response (even though I fundamentally disagree on all his points), although I should also point out, as I did in my opening post, that he had had enough warning time regarding this matter being aired here, and could have dealt with it beforehand.

 

I am happy to accept $750 from GreatEscape as a means to resolve this matter and will, once the payment has been received, cease my correspondence on this topic.

 

Thank you everyone.

 

Andy.

 

I'm glad it worked out to your satisfaction Andy. Also, big kudos to you for doing everything possible to resolve it BEFORE it became a public spectacle. Shame it had to come to this, but glad that it got resolved one way or another.

[Dark Knight]

Good form indeed. Glad everything worked out the way it should.

[Paratrooper]

Hey Chris. My listing description was VG to VF/F with the disclosure of the spine splits...appearance, structure and sharp corners were VF or better.

 

 

Posted in "Spare a grade" forum and opinions ranged from 2.5 to 5.0. Similarly, found this in other grading thread:

 

"I also know from first hand experience that a Q8.5 book with a 1.5" spine split can be resubmitted to CGC for a 5.0 Universal grade. Based on my experience with CGC and the OGG standards, up to a 2" spine split are an acceptable flaw at 5.0 and below."

 

"I agree with that. I helped the 'Trooper get one of his mini-grails last year and it looked between 8.5 and 9.0 but with a 2" and a 1 1/4" spine split, it was graded out at 4.0 or so, maybe 4.5."

 

 

In the above context, "spine split" means the cover is split, not the ENTIRE BOOK. You know this. Why are you posting the above?

 

 

The second quote is from me, and yes, that referred to a spine split on the cover, not going through the entire book.

 

Something was mentioned about my Masters Comics #7?

 

Seanfingh told me the price and the severity of the spine split prior to giving me the option to buy. I am completely happy with the transaction, in fact I probably owe Sean a beer or three for thinking of me when he got this for me.

[Senormac]

This is why you should never offer "partial refunds". If the buyer isn't happy with the book, take it back no questions asked. Partial refunds always end up only making people "partially happy."

 

Wise words right there.....wise words

[tonytiger]

Good form indeed. Glad everything worked out the way it should.

 

Very informational.

[nochips]

"Case Closed!"

 

It's time for a brew.