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Bad transaction between me and Forum member GreatEscape

Started by goldust40,

308 posts in this topic

G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted

I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

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JiveTurkeyMoFo

JiveTurkeyMoFo

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

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ArAich

ArAich

Posted
Posted
Some good material there Sal. Mind if I borrow your phrase of "go himself with a rake"?

 

i'm sorry, but all my posts, their content, style and exectution are the sole intellectual property of "Sal Inc.©" and cannot be used, transmitted or otherwise broadcast for any use, public or private

 

Can we still enjoy them and use the odd phrase off these boards?

 

 

Atta girl Lauren... (thumbs u

 

Verry funny Rick. :o

 

I could nearly be Lauren's Mother if I wasn't married at 30 years

old and of course I didn't dare participate in pre-marital sex. (tsk)

 

 

hm ...maybe once or twice. (shrug)

 

 

Yup...I could be Laurens father as well... :preach:

 

 

 

 

 

Wait...that don't sound right... :slapfight:

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Sal

Sal

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

you mean, "has anyone other than goldust himself PMed Dino?" Andy has made it clear that he told Dino he was going to post this thread prior to actually doing it. Seems like there's been plenty of time for Dino to act on his own and explain.

 

i dunno how many times someone has to be asked nicely by the aggrieved before it's too many times. i'm also not sure how one can explain away refusing to even discuss a full restitution once a significant and reasonable request is made. (shrug)

 

oftentimes, a nice pre-lynching can move things forward. i don't think anyone here is asking for anything other than a good resolution for all parties...which of course would be the refund that's been refused at least twice

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

you mean, "has anyone other than goldust himself PMed Dino?" Andy has made it clear that he told Dino he was going to post this thread prior to actually doing it. Seems like there's been plenty of time for Dino to act on his own and explain.

 

i dunno how many times someone has to be asked nicely by the aggrieved before it's too many times. i'm also not sure how one can explain away refusing to even discuss a full restitution once a significant and reasonable request is made. (shrug)

 

oftentimes, a nice pre-lynching can move things forward. i don't think anyone here is asking for anything other than a good resolution for all parties...which of course would be the refund that's been refused at least twice

 

(thumbs u

 

They're giving him the benefit of the doubt because they know him. If it were some noob to the forum, they'd be all aboard the lynching train.

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Sal

Sal

Posted
Posted

that's certainly their prerogative. i've no problem with people asking for leniency in the face of incomplete data. luckily for me, i'm on the outside looking in from both sides, so i'm free of that weight

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

you mean, "has anyone other than goldust himself PMed Dino?" Andy has made it clear that he told Dino he was going to post this thread prior to actually doing it. Seems like there's been plenty of time for Dino to act on his own and explain.

 

i dunno how many times someone has to be asked nicely by the aggrieved before it's too many times. i'm also not sure how one can explain away refusing to even discuss a full restitution once a significant and reasonable request is made. (shrug)

 

oftentimes, a nice pre-lynching can move things forward. i don't think anyone here is asking for anything other than a good resolution for all parties...which of course would be the refund that's been refused at least twice

simply playing devil's advocate, until we hear "the other side", we have only heard "one" side... and, please, I have no pony in this race and I have NO reason not to believe 100% of what Andy has typed here...but, given this basically stellar history of BOTH board members, I personally believe the other party needs to be given the forum to express "his" side...

 

not saying it will change a thing, not saying that we as a board shouldn't expect a board member to do the right thing...and I will be the first to "lynch" if that is what needs to be done... but silence is not always an admittance of guilt...

 

like george says, this thread has only been up for less than a day...give the other party a little time to respond , and if he doesn't, then take that as you will (thumbs u

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JiveTurkeyMoFo

JiveTurkeyMoFo

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

you mean, "has anyone other than goldust himself PMed Dino?" Andy has made it clear that he told Dino he was going to post this thread prior to actually doing it. Seems like there's been plenty of time for Dino to act on his own and explain.

 

i dunno how many times someone has to be asked nicely by the aggrieved before it's too many times. i'm also not sure how one can explain away refusing to even discuss a full restitution once a significant and reasonable request is made. (shrug)

 

oftentimes, a nice pre-lynching can move things forward. i don't think anyone here is asking for anything other than a good resolution for all parties...which of course would be the refund that's been refused at least twice

 

I agree with your assessment, which as of right now, is based almost entirely on Andy's account of what transpired.

 

Dino certainly isn't winning himself any karma points on this one, and yes he is missing a valuable opportunity to either counter or deny Andy's account, if there is indeed any discrepancy in their stories. Every minute that passes is another shovel of earth on the grave of his reputation.

 

I would just hope he would address the issue in some way and step forward.

 

 

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

you mean, "has anyone other than goldust himself PMed Dino?" Andy has made it clear that he told Dino he was going to post this thread prior to actually doing it. Seems like there's been plenty of time for Dino to act on his own and explain.

 

i dunno how many times someone has to be asked nicely by the aggrieved before it's too many times. i'm also not sure how one can explain away refusing to even discuss a full restitution once a significant and reasonable request is made. (shrug)

 

oftentimes, a nice pre-lynching can move things forward. i don't think anyone here is asking for anything other than a good resolution for all parties...which of course would be the refund that's been refused at least twice

 

(thumbs u

 

They're giving him the benefit of the doubt because they know him. If it were some noob to the forum, they'd be all aboard the lynching train.

if GreatEscape made the same type post, I would say the same thing for Goldust's benefit... I reserve the right to "judge" (since I assume that is the point of this, right) once I have heard from both sides, simple as that (thumbs u

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JiveTurkeyMoFo

JiveTurkeyMoFo

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Go away Gator, no one needs calm and reasoning at this otherwise perfectly good lynching. meh

 

Seriously, while it does "look bad" for Dino, and I have nothing but sympathy for goldust based on his account of what transpired, has anyone at least PMed Dino in hopes of getting a resolution to this mess, or at least, his side of the story?

 

If he decides to ignore this thread, and the issue in general, for a couple more days...then at least he was extended every opportunity to state his case publically. I don't think we've quite reached that point, so let's all put away the torches and pitchforks until we do...

 

 

 

you mean, "has anyone other than goldust himself PMed Dino?" Andy has made it clear that he told Dino he was going to post this thread prior to actually doing it. Seems like there's been plenty of time for Dino to act on his own and explain.

 

i dunno how many times someone has to be asked nicely by the aggrieved before it's too many times. i'm also not sure how one can explain away refusing to even discuss a full restitution once a significant and reasonable request is made. (shrug)

 

oftentimes, a nice pre-lynching can move things forward. i don't think anyone here is asking for anything other than a good resolution for all parties...which of course would be the refund that's been refused at least twice

 

(thumbs u

 

They're giving him the benefit of the doubt because they know him. If it were some noob to the forum, they'd be all aboard the lynching train.

 

Actually Andrew, that's cr@p. I've defended plenty of newbies whose only mistake when coming onto the boards is not having the 350 page Forum Etiquette Manual committed to memory before they made their first post.

 

I know Dino in passing from the GA boards. We've PMed once or twice. I don't think we've ever bought/sold from one another. And my passing familiarity with him doesn't mean squat.

 

Everyone should at least be given an opportunity to defend themselves, especially in light of what appears to be borderline fraud. Newbie or Board veteran, doesn't matter.

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Sal

Sal

Posted
Posted

i don't know if he needs to tell his whole story, just address this part;

 

In April, I bought via an auction held on ebay, a Sub-Mariner 2 for $1250 from stars-and-stripes, aka Dino Mauricio aka GreatEscape on this Forum. I specifically bid on this auction because I was aware of GreatEscape's favorable reputation from the CGC Forum. As I had never dealt with him before, had I not known of his CGC reputation I would not have bid on the book. The book was listed as a VG/FN (5.0)with nice off-white pages. The book arrives, and although it generally has a decent appearance, it has two large spine splits that affect all the pages to the centerfold, and more significantly, tan if not brown pages that I consider to be bordering on brittle.

 

After emailing stars-and-stripes to let him know that I am very dissatisfied with the book, he states that he will not accept a return, but will offer it to the underbidder on my behalf. Such an arrangement would set me back about $160, so I decline this option. He then offers me a partial refund of $180 that I accept, with the proviso that if it comes back from CGC with tan or worse pages, that I would be entitled to a refund on the balance owed (about $1070). He agrees to this.

 

About three weeks ago the book arrives back from CGC with a disappointing grade of 2.5 and, even worse, with brittle pages. I then alert stars-and-stripes/GreatEscape about this, but he states in several separate emails that he will definitely not refund my money or accept a return, due to a) current financial difficulties he has experienced because of a family matter, b) that grading is subjective and not a valid reason for returning the book and c) that such disagreements are commonplace, and that I am being completely unreasonable and unfair for asking to return the book for a refund.

 

there's quite a bit of explaining to do there. hopefully, he's going to respond at some point so we can put this whole mess behind us as a community

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G.A.tor

G.A.tor

Posted
Posted
Fine fine. Let's give him 3 or 4 minutes to collect his thoughts.
lol

most folks know that not "everyone" is on here 24/7

 

dino has gone days and days in the past, without being on here (and like many GA folks, rarely hit CG )...that said, I am going to send him an email, to alert him, just for my benefit (thumbs u

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Guardian Comics

Guardian Comics

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Actually Rick it might be his "modus operandi".

 

Here is a story related to me last night by a well respected board member and one of my best friends (who didn't want to pile on Dino as the transaction is a year old)

 

Anyways Dino has a book on the Bay, after the auction ends without a sale, my friend contacts Dino about it. It's supposed to be a 7.5 but Dino informs him that it is his "Ebay grade" and probably closer to a 6-6.5. They work on a deal at that grade but my friends biggest concern is the staples and that the book is well secured. No problem he is told...when it arrives of course it was detached at one staple :(

 

To make a long story short my friend still owns a book he doesn't want and not by his choice. :sorry:

 

Jim

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
I was not asked to sit on the jury, but I do find it interesting that folks would make any statements without hearing both sides....

 

now, don't get me wrong, I have no reason to question Andy's details of the transaction...from what I know, he is a stand up guy, and I believe we had some nice chats in SD this year... and what I (and apparently the majority) would do, is fine and dandy and the concensus ...

 

that said, having known Dino for years, this does not sound like his modus operandi...again, not saying he is not in the wrong based on industry standards and Andy's description of the events, but I would like to hear the other side before condeming ... just my opinion

 

Actually Rick it might be his "modus operandi".

 

Here is a story related to me last night by a well respected board member and one of my best friends (who didn't want to pile on Dino as the transaction is a year old)

 

Anyways Dino has a book on the Bay, after the auction ends without a sale, my friend contacts Dino about it. It's supposed to be a 7.5 but Dino informs him that it is his "Ebay grade" and probably closer to a 6-6.5. They work on a deal at that grade but my friends biggest concern is the staples and that the book is well secured. No problem he is told...when it arrives of course it was detached at one staple :(

 

To make a long story short my friend still owns a book he doesn't want and not by his choice. :sorry:

 

Jim

 

No refund offered, I'm assuming? (shrug)

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GreatEscape

GreatEscape

Posted
Posted

 

Hello all,

 

Thanks to D. for the heads up....I just now saw this thread and reading through the comments. I'm a little shocked by everyone's reactions but not surprised given Andy's recount of the situation.

 

Please give me time to respond and I'll invite everyone to make their own assessment.

 

In the meantime, let me state for the record that Andy and I have exchanged over 20 emails since the eBay transaction-- all of which until last week seemed pleasant-- so I wasn't exactly ignoring this; I have not had time to counter Andy's demand last week for $750 to 'fix' the situation...I wanted some input on the amount, if any is owed at all; had CGC found restoration I would have refunded the entire purchase (as stated in the eBay listing) but I believe page quality was no longer part of the guarantee once Andy inspected the book/pages and we agreed on a partial refund; I've been trying to contact the previous owner from whom I purchased the book to get (1) partial compensation in light of Andy's CGC grade that I promised to give to Andy and (2) possibly a verification that CGC or PGX had graded this previously with CRM-OW page quality and not brittle pages-- which would support my condition assessment at the time of sale; I had arranged a sale to the underbidder using eBay's "Second-chance offer" which would have provided a refund back in April but Andy decided to take the book + partial refund; my eBay listing guaranteed against restoration only but I did make my own assessment of page quality..and while Andy and I disagreed on PQ, neither of us believe it was brittle (see email at bottom).

 

Here are excerpts from my recent email communications:

 

Andrew,

 

I understand your disappointment with our transaction but from my side I don’t think it’s fair to penalize me for CGC’s grading (on page quality)...Have you called CGC for the notes to understand why they graded it so poorly (ie, one corner only tips the grade for the entire 60 page book)...

 

In my mind, this was an eBay transaction (not a CGC Boards deal) where you were the high bidder who inspected the book in hand and asked for and received a partial refund. All collectors—myself included—can point to unfair CGC grades. …many dealers will refund for restoration but never for page quality.

 

Obviously, I can’t prevent you from posting your grievances on the public boards (it’s your right) but I’d just explain my situation in response and let the forum have their fun with our dirty laundry.

 

Dino

 

___

 

SEPT 10, 2009

 

Andrew,

 

I don’t think it’s fair for me to pay you for CGC page quality…if restoration were found (which is either there or not), that would be different.

 

I can appreciate your disappointment on the CGC grade but all collectors have experienced this (even on the boards) and I’ve had my share of + and -. It was not restored and I disagree with CGC’s assessment of page quality (their grades vary even for the same book). I gave you a partial refund at the time of sale to compensate for your concerns about the condition and find it unfair that you’re demanding an add’l $750.

 

Dino

 

___

 

SEPT 3, 2009

 

Andrew,

 

Yes, thanks...the partial refund was to compensate for our different views as to condition. During the summer, I contacted the original owner that I purchased the book from and he said that the book was previously CGC graded as unrestored and cream-to-off white pages (did not get the grade) so I felt comfortable in my page quality description to you.

 

I’ll try to get a scan of the CGC graded book if I can—confirming the professionally graded tan-or-better page quality when I sold it to you-- if I can’t get proof then maybe I can pay installments to you by end of year.. I know this is not the response you wanted but is all I can do at this point.

 

Dino

___

 

APRIL 23, 2009

Andy,

 

If those options are not acceptable, and recognizing we have different views on condition, I can offer a partial refund to you to make you happy. Let me know what amount you feel would be fair. Please take into consideration that I paid extra for Fedex shipping after my vacation to get it to you sooner. In the meantime, I’ll take a look at the other scans that I have from the previous owner when I get home.

 

Dino

 

____

 

APRIL 23, 2009

 

Dino,

 

...page quality was listed as off-white and in my opinion it is light tan to cream (in places simply tan).

 

Andy

 

 

 

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted

Dino:

 

After hearing both sides of the story, I feel that Andy should be compensated at least 100% of the purchase price. It doesn't matter wether or not you sold a book to a board member through ebay or the boards. It's my sugestion that you pay him or it will drastically hurt your reputation as a seller on these boards.

 

Mike

 

Edited! $750 to make the transaction right.

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