The Official "Hey, these scores need fixing" thread (Revised)

[trmoore54]

I'd just like to add some general support to the Pre-Hero cause.

I see a very bright future for these titles, as those who pursue them are among the most enthusiastic, engaged collectors I know.

 

 

What he/they said... (thumbs u

 

Additional data here...

 

PRE-HERO HIGH GRADE CGC CENSUS 7 July 2013

The following is a look at the CGC Census for high grade Atlas/Marvel Pre-Hero books in the last year and a half. I initially catalogued the Census data for grades 7.0 through 9.8…had to drop the HG definition down to 7.0 in my mind as the population was so sparse in 9.0 and better…8.0 and better for that matter. I initially catalogued the data on January 20, 2012. I’ve updated the data on July 7, 2013. The exact time duration is 533 days. All data is for CGC graded books, grades 7.0 through 9.8. As for re-subbed/re-graded books commented on, I don’t know of any of the books provenance or if they have been pressed. Note that the 9.4 category consists of any book 9.4 or greater.

 

My sample case only consists of Journey Into Mystery, Strange Tales and Tales Of Suspense at present, so I apologize to the Tales To Astonish, Amazing Adventures, Amazing Adult Fantasy and Strange Worlds etc afficianados. I will be adding these to my data base in the near future.

 

First up…Journey Into Mystery Issues 50-82 (Jan 1959 to July 1962). Census has grown from 310 books to 390 books, or an increase of 25.8%. Individually, graded copies have increased as follows: 9.4 7 to 8; 9.2 11 to 16; 9.0 32 to 39; 8.5 52 to 61; 8.0 68 to 84; 7.5 69 to 89 and 7.0 71 to 93.

 

Issue 55 still killer-tough in grade with only 1 8.0 in the Census. Followed by Issues 51, 52, 53, 54, 56, 57, 58, 50, 59 and 60 with only single digit representation…4 to 8 copies respectively. Doesn’t get much more plentiful after that, with the remaining issues accounting for only 11 to 19 copies of each, respectively. Issue 51 has a new highest graded 9.0 copy. Issue 52 has a new highest graded 9.0 copy (an 8.5 resub). Issue 58 has a new 8.0 (re-subbed 7.5). Issue 59 has a new highest graded copy, a 9.2 (re-subbed 9.0). Issue 69 has a new 8.5 (re-subbed 8.0). Issue 70 has a new 8.0 (re-subbed 7.5). Issues 51, 55, 56, 58 and 77 have no 7.0 graded copies. Issues 76 and 79 saw no changes.

 

Strange Tales Issues 67-100 (Feb 1959 to Sept 1962) Census has grown from 321 books to 390 books…interesting, the same current number as JIM books…an increase of 21.5%. Individually, graded copies have increased as follows: 9.4 4 to 6; 9.2 10 to 12; 9.0 40 to 36 (decrease!); 8.5 48 to 60; 8.0 88 to 102; 7.5 67 to 87 and 7.0 64 to 87.

 

Issue 71 loses its top spot for scarcity to Issue 74…adding a 7.0 and 7.5 copy. Issue 74 owns the new top spot for scarcity with 2 issues, a 7.5 and 7.0. ST goes 13 issues deep with only single-digit Census representations as opposed to 11 deep for JIM. ST also has 6 issues with 4 copies or less…74, 67, 71, 70, 76 and 83. As we get into the later issues, however, there is a bit more representation in numbers for the last 4 issues, 19 to 28 copies. Issues 85, 92 and 99 each have a new highest graded 9.2. Issue 100 has a new highest graded 9.8! Issue 90 has a new (2nd) 9.4 copy added and Issue 97 has a new (2nd) 9.0 copy added. Issue 78 has a new 8.0 (re-subbed 7.0). There have been no changes for issues 74, 76, 80, 81 and 83…get those submissions in guys and gals!

Tales Of Suspense 1-38 (Jan 1959 to Feb 1963) Census has grown from 601 books to 746 books, an increase of 24.1%. It’s interesting there are so many more copies for the TOS series than the other two titles…more than double! My initial thought is that it is because the TOS begins with an Issue #1 and for collectors, a more readily defined set to collect and complete. It will be interesting to compare TTA 1-34…I’ll bet the numbers are very similar. Would be interested to hear everyone’s thoughts and theories on this. Also, as relates to the increased Census numbers, I added a 9.6 grade column to my data/spreadsheet. Individually, graded copies have increased as follows: 9.6 no change (6 ); 9.4 18 to 21; 9.2 35 to 44; 9.0 79 to 92; 8.5 92 to 112; 8.0 133 to 153; 7.5 112 to 150; 7.0 126 to 168.

 

Issue 4 retains the top scarcest copy position while moving from 3 copies to 6 copies. Issue 2 holds at #2 position…while issues 1, 5, 3 and 6 all retain positions 3 through 6 with juggled positions. Issues 10, 20, 7 and 8 hold serve, maintaining their positions to round out the Top 10. It is interesting that Issue 32, quite possibly the most likely book to be submitted for grading (other than the single digit issues of course) remains unchanged with no new books added to the Census. Issues 24 and 35 represent the most books added during the time-frame with 9 books each. While Issue 6’s position Census number did not change from 9 copies, it did have a 9.0 drop to an 8.5 on a re-sub…ouch! Issue 13 had a 9.0 move to a tie for 9.2 highest graded on a re-sub. Issue 17 has a new (2nd) 9.2 highest graded copy, a 9.0 re-sub. Issue 29 had a 9.2 drop to an 8.5 on a re-sub…double-ouch! Issue 33 had an 8.0 drop down to a 7.5 on a re-sub. Issue 34 had an 8.0 move to an 8.5 on a re-sub. Issue 37 had an 8.0 re-grade at a 7.0 on a re-sub...another double ouch! Interesting as well Issues 2, 6 and 12 have no 7.0 graded copies.

 

TALES TO ASTONISH AND AMAZING ADVENTURES/AMAZING ADULT FANTASY…CATCHING UP…

 

Tales To Astonish 1-34 (Jan 1959 to Aug 1962) While I don’t have the snapshot of TTA a year and a half ago for comparative purposes, let’s take stock of the present Census comparative to the other Pre-Hero titles. As expected, TTA submitted/graded copies far exceed the JIM and ST titles, but fall a bit short of the TOS series…584 total copies or 78.3% of the TOS total. Individually, graded copies are represented as follows: 9.6 2; 9.4 12; 9.2 33; 9.0 56; 8.5 86; 8.0 118; 7.5 152 and 7.0 125.

 

There are only 3 issues with single digit Census numbers led by Issue 4 at 5 copies…followed by #11 at 7 copies and #5 at 9 copies. Issues 2, 6, 9 and 10 claim the next 4 spots at 10 copies. Issues 1, 3, 7 and 17 round out the Top 10 (12) at 12 copies. The only single digit issue outside the Top 10 is Issue 8 at 18 copies (a tie for 21st place). Interestingly, all 33 issues except for Issue 27 max out at 30 copies. Issue 27, as would be expected, is the most submitted book and the most HG copies at 56 copies…ranging in grades of 9.4 (2); 9.2 (1); 9.0 (6); 8.5 (6); 8.0 (11); 7.5 (18) and 7.0 (12). Issue 30 has a 9.8 and Issue 16 has a 9.6.

 

Amazing Adventures 1-6/Amazing Adult Fantasy 7-14 (Jan 1961 to July 1962) I’ve treated this as an entire comparative set with a total submitted/graded Census of 251 copies…so while there are a little less than half the issues of JIM and ST there is strong appreciation and submission of the title, most likely due to the fact that the AAF series is a prelude to the holy grail AF 15 and the fact that it is a relatively easier set to put together for the completist. The 251 copies represent a comparative total of 81% to JIM and 78.3% to ST. Individually, graded copies are represented as follows: 9.4 7; 9.2 7; 9.0 27; 8.5 23; 8.0 51; 7.5 56 and 7.0 80.

 

AA #4 leads the group as the only single digit Census member at 9 copies. Red cover #8 is next up at 10 copies. Rounding out the Top 5 are issues 3, 6 and 14 at 12 copies. Rounding out the Top 10 are issues 5 (16), 9 (17), 13 (17), 2 (20) and 10 at 23 copies. Not surprisingly, Issue #1 is 14th with the most submitted/graded copies at 30 copies.

 

All in all, in terms of scarcity in HG, we see ST and JIM clearly at the top (13 and 11 titles respectively with single digit representation), with the remaining 3 (or 4 if you will) titles a notch below at 3, 3 and 1 single digit representation respectively. It will be interesting in the coming year to see what other HG Pre-Heros enter the Census…which as we well know in many cases is just a matter of choice for the collector, and many a collector will remain content keeping their sweet high grade books in pristine mylars for their personal and friends’ enjoyment. In fact, we’ve seen many of these copies just recently here on the boards and in our Pre-Hero thread…many of which would surely contend for highest graded should they be chosen for submission. Happy PH collecting!

 

[cheetah]

I think he is a very private collector. I got the impression from one of his posts that he didn't like CGC making his sets public when he won the award last year.

[Timely]

Can you raise the scores on Speed Comics by 50-100%? Most of these books are so rare that CGC has only graded 1 to 4 copies on most issues of the run. There are still some issues of Speed that CGC has never graded any copies of!

 

Thanks.

[colmoreman]

The scores for the Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine make no sense and, at best, are reversed between the 2 issues:

 

#1 9.8 - 1,600

#2 9.8 - 2,000

 

Issue #2 in 9.8 is very common, issue #1 in 9.8 is not.

 

So, Guide for 9.2 - #1 $220, #2 $180.

 

Census for 9.8 - #1 3 copies, #2 66 copies

 

Last GPA Sales for 9.8s - #1 $3,107, #2 $800.

 

I would suggest 2,000 for #1 and 1,000 for #2

[vhunter]

Set: Eric Basaldua (EBAS) Cover Set

Slot: Grimm Fairy Tales Unleashed #1 Convention Nude Edition

Grimm Fairy Tales Unleashed #1 Convention Nude Edition 1191521018 10.0 0

 

I have a 10 SS book received 0 points. This is a very HTF book.

 

I would like to suggest for SS

0.5 1.0 1.5 1.8 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 6 9 17 28 44 80 120

 

Grimm Fairy Tales Presents Wonderland 8 Anastasia's Naughty Edition

10 SS only got 75 points, I would like suggest the same

________________________________________________________________________

Set: Eric Basaldua (EBAS) Cover Set

Slot: Grimm Fairy Tales Unleashed #1 Wizard World Philadelphia

 

View Printable Version

Comic Description 0.5 1.0 1.5 1.8 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0

Grimm Fairy Tales Unleashed #1 Signature Wizard

World Philadelphia Edition 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 4 11 17 28 33 50

 

please fix this one, 9.9 only get 33

 

I would like to suggest

0.5 1.0 1.5 1.8 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 6 9 17 28 44 75 100

________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Set: Eric Basaldua (EBAS) Cover Set

Slot: Ancient Dreams #2 Variant Cover

 

Set: Eric Basaldua (EBAS) Cover Set

Slot: Ancient Dreams #2 Limited Edition

 

Southern Nightgown #1 Limited Edition 2012

Ursa Minor #1 Convention Naughty Edition

The Waking #4 Phoenix Comic Con Edition

 

Brimstone #2 Steampunk Edition

Brimstone #3 Limited Edition

Salem's Daughter: The Haunting #1 Convention Edition

 

all these book I would like to suggest for 9.8 SS at 44 points

 

 

0.5 1.0 1.5 1.8 2.0 2.5 3.0 3.5 4.0 4.5 5.0 5.5 6.0 6.5 7.0 7.5 8.0 8.5 9.0 9.2 9.4 9.6 9.8 9.9 10.0

1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 6 9 17 28 44 55 83

 

 

thanks

[kaholo1256]

I don't know if enough time has elapsed in looking at a few of the other requests but would it be possible to slightly alter the Avengers vs X-Men point set based off of the harder to obtain variants? Such as the 1:200 being worth more than the Regular issue.

 

I don't know if it makes sense but maybe with specific emphasis on how everyone seemed to jump off the band wagon near issue 4.

 

Thanks for maybe taking a look.

 

K

[chaddesden33]

Hi Gemma

 

I was wondering if you've had opportunity to consider my recent request to review scores on Thor Annual #2?

 

Another tough silver book that could do with a reassessment is Amazing Spider-man #60. Black cover makes it very difficult in high grade which is reflected in the census and GPA in relation to the numbers either side of it.

 

Many thanks for your consideration.

 

Jon

[Peter Loves Gwen]

...

Another tough silver book that could do with a reassessment is Amazing Spider-man #60. Black cover makes it very difficult in high grade which is reflected in the census and GPA in relation to the numbers either side of it.

 

Many thanks for your consideration.

 

Jon

 

I agree, but the ASM 63 is even harder to find in HG's, and it is equally black covered and tough to find centered. I paid about $1000 for the #63, and only $650 for the #60. Regards,

[Gemma]

Some of the scores have been adjusted. There is an error on the Amazing Adventures set, but I have noted to update it once it is repaired. Once the remainder of the scores have been updated I will let you know, but if there is any feedback about the current adjustments, please feel free to post it here!

[Green]

There is a book in the "Incredible Hulk (Dale Keown)" set that should be removed. Giant size hulk 1 (2006) does not have any original keown hulk material. It only reprints Hulk: The End, which is already in the set.

[Gemma]

OK, there seems to have been an issue with the Journey Into Mystery set update. Only the 60s series was supposed to be updated, but a glitch caused both series to be updated....programming is looking into this error so we hope to have it resolved soon.

[ChadH]

Gemma,

I was wondering if the "Walking Dead Hero Initiative" books could be looked into? I would figure the points would at least match the Red Foil edition based on the scarcity of the books. Thanks!

[bffnut]

Gemma,

I was wondering if the "Walking Dead Hero Initiative" books could be looked into? I would figure the points would at least match the Red Foil edition based on the scarcity of the books. Thanks!

 

I was just about to post the same question.

[cheetah]

This is a list of some of the Pre-Code Horror Titles that need an increase in point totals in order to keep up. Pre-code Horror titles are notoriously difficult to find in anything better than F/VF and the typify a period in comic history that lead to the publication of Seduction of the Innocent and creation of the Comics Code Authority. Many of these titles are valued at far less than common bronze age books. I think an increase of 25% to 100% would be appropriate depending on the title. EC Comics are in decent shape and deserve a lower increase while some of the titles that are almost impossible to find deserve a greater increase.

 

I know there are other titles, these are just the ones I could come up with.

 

Pre-Code Horror

Adventures into the Unknown

Adventures into Weird Worlds

Baffling Mysteries

Beware

Beyond

Black Cat Mystery

Blue Bolt/Ghostly Weird Tales

Chamber of Chills

Chilling Tales

Crime SuspenStories

Dark Mysteries

Eerie (Avon)

Forbidden Worlds

Haunt of Fear

Haunted Thrills

Horrific

Horrors

Mister Mystery

Mysteries

Mysterious Adventures

Mystery Tales

Panic

Shock SuspenStories

Spellbound

Spook

Strange Fantasy

Strange Mysteries

Startling Terror Tales

Strange Stories from Another World

Strange Suspense Stories

Strange Worlds

Suspense

Tales from the Crypt

Tales of Horror

Terrifying Tales

Thing (Charleton)

This Magazine is Haunted

Tomb of Terror (Harvey)

Vault of Horror

Voodoo

Web of Evil

Web of Mystery

Weird Chills

Weird Mysteries

Weird Terror

Weird Thrillers

Witches Tales

Worlds of Fear

[Timely]

This is a list of some of the Pre-Code Horror Titles that need an increase in point totals in order to keep up. Pre-code Horror titles are notoriously difficult to find in anything better than F/VF and the typify a period in comic history that lead to the publication of Seduction of the Innocent and creation of the Comics Code Authority. Many of these titles are valued at far less than common bronze age books. I think an increase of 25% to 100% would be appropriate depending on the title. EC Comics are in decent shape and deserve a lower increase while some of the titles that are almost impossible to find deserve a greater increase.

 

I know there are other titles, these are just the ones I could come up with.

 

Pre-Code Horror

Adventures into the Unknown

Adventures into Weird Worlds

Baffling Mysteries

Beware

Beyond

Black Cat Mystery

Blue Bolt/Ghostly Weird Tales

Chamber of Chills

Chilling Tales

Crime SuspenStories

Dark Mysteries

Eerie (Avon)

Forbidden Worlds

Haunt of Fear

Haunted Thrills

Horrific

Horrors

Mister Mystery

Mysteries

Mysterious Adventures

Mystery Tales

Panic

Shock SuspenStories

Spellbound

Spook

Strange Fantasy

Strange Mysteries

Startling Terror Tales

Strange Stories from Another World

Strange Suspense Stories

Strange Worlds

Suspense

Tales from the Crypt

Tales of Horror

Terrifying Tales

Thing (Charleton)

This Magazine is Haunted

Tomb of Terror (Harvey)

Vault of Horror

Voodoo

Web of Evil

Web of Mystery

Weird Chills

Weird Mysteries

Weird Terror

Weird Thrillers

Witches Tales

Worlds of Fear

 

Add Weird Tales of the Future to that list! (thumbs u

[Bomber-Bob]

Some of the scores have been adjusted. There is an error on the Amazing Adventures set, but I have noted to update it once it is repaired. Once the remainder of the scores have been updated I will let you know, but if there is any feedback about the current adjustments, please feel free to post it here!

 

Gemma, thank you for the Pre-Hero updates. It is appreciated. (thumbs u

[RICK STARR]

This is a list of some of the Pre-Code Horror Titles that need an increase in point totals in order to keep up. Pre-code Horror titles are notoriously difficult to find in anything better than F/VF and the typify a period in comic history that lead to the publication of Seduction of the Innocent and creation of the Comics Code Authority. Many of these titles are valued at far less than common bronze age books. I think an increase of 25% to 100% would be appropriate depending on the title. EC Comics are in decent shape and deserve a lower increase while some of the titles that are almost impossible to find deserve a greater increase.

 

I know there are other titles, these are just the ones I could come up with.

 

Pre-Code Horror

Adventures into the Unknown

Adventures into Weird Worlds

Baffling Mysteries

Beware

Beyond

Black Cat Mystery

Blue Bolt/Ghostly Weird Tales

Chamber of Chills

Chilling Tales

Crime SuspenStories

Dark Mysteries

Eerie (Avon)

Forbidden Worlds

Haunt of Fear

Haunted Thrills

Horrific

Horrors

Mister Mystery

Mysteries

Mysterious Adventures

Mystery Tales

Panic

Shock SuspenStories

Spellbound

Spook

Strange Fantasy

Strange Mysteries

Startling Terror Tales

Strange Stories from Another World

Strange Suspense Stories

Strange Worlds

Suspense

Tales from the Crypt

Tales of Horror

Terrifying Tales

Thing (Charleton)

This Magazine is Haunted

Tomb of Terror (Harvey)

Vault of Horror

Voodoo

Web of Evil

Web of Mystery

Weird Chills

Weird Mysteries

Weird Terror

Weird Thrillers

Witches Tales

Worlds of Fear

 

 

 

 

Amen to this. These books are vastly understated regarding Registry points.

Most are almost impossible to find in Fine condition or better.

 

[ExcludedTim]

Gemma,

I was wondering if the "Walking Dead Hero Initiative" books could be looked into? I would figure the points would at least match the Red Foil edition based on the scarcity of the books. Thanks!

 

+1.

[James J]

Gemma,

I was wondering if the "Walking Dead Hero Initiative" books could be looked into? I would figure the points would at least match the Red Foil edition based on the scarcity of the books. Thanks!

 

+1.

 

+2 (thumbs u Only 105 issues I think

[Johnny545]

This is a list of some of the Pre-Code Horror Titles that need an increase in point totals in order to keep up. Pre-code Horror titles are notoriously difficult to find in anything better than F/VF and the typify a period in comic history that lead to the publication of Seduction of the Innocent and creation of the Comics Code Authority. Many of these titles are valued at far less than common bronze age books. I think an increase of 25% to 100% would be appropriate depending on the title. EC Comics are in decent shape and deserve a lower increase while some of the titles that are almost impossible to find deserve a greater increase.

 

I know there are other titles, these are just the ones I could come up with.

 

Pre-Code Horror

Adventures into the Unknown

Adventures into Weird Worlds

Baffling Mysteries

Beware

Beyond

Black Cat Mystery

Blue Bolt/Ghostly Weird Tales

Chamber of Chills

Chilling Tales

Crime SuspenStories

Dark Mysteries

Eerie (Avon)

Forbidden Worlds

Haunt of Fear

Haunted Thrills

Horrific

Horrors

Mister Mystery

Mysteries

Mysterious Adventures

Mystery Tales

Panic

Shock SuspenStories

Spellbound

Spook

Strange Fantasy

Strange Mysteries

Startling Terror Tales

Strange Stories from Another World

Strange Suspense Stories

Strange Worlds

Suspense

Tales from the Crypt

Tales of Horror

Terrifying Tales

Thing (Charleton)

This Magazine is Haunted

Tomb of Terror (Harvey)

Vault of Horror

Voodoo

Web of Evil

Web of Mystery

Weird Chills

Weird Mysteries

Weird Terror

Weird Thrillers

Witches Tales

Worlds of Fear

 

Absolutely these all need a points bump