Ebayer to watch out for: bijoubaby05

[sufunk]

Yeah, like shadroch said, the grade is just cgc's opinion but they are THE standard in the hobby. They can be wrong or you can disagree but cracking out a 6.6 and selling is as a 8.5 leaves a REAL bad taste in my mouth!

 

I just got back some spideys between 103-120 from CGC. I though they were all 9.6-9.8's but they came back 9.0-9.4's. I definitely think they must have been smoking crack that day or something cus I sure don't see what dropped them down that far. That being said, I would feel VERY sleazy cracking them out and selling them as 9.6-9.8's no matter how much I disagree with the grade they gave.

[500Club]

I'm with you. If I buy a used car, I'd like to know it'd been in a near-write-off accident. If I buy a home, I'd like to know that the basement has flooded 3 times in two years, with no apparent cause.

 

I think the fact that crack/overgrade is now one of Dupcak's MOs says it all.

[Indrid_Cold]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job! But now the topic of "lots of people" re-sell cracked out CGC books and its not considered fraud... wow... thats really eye opening to someone like me who apparently has no idea how the industry actually works.

 

So let me make sure that I am understanding the message correctly. CGC grading, all grading in fact, is just an opinion which has no merit or basis by which to gauge accuracy.

Simply tossing out a grade of, lets say, 5.5 handed out by a pre-screener and 2 senior graders (aka CGC) and randomly and arbitrarily deciding it is actually 7.5 is considered a fair and standard practice?? Wow. That..... just..... SUCKS.

 

I guess If I go around punching old ladies and taking their purses its their fault that I was younger faster and stronger than them. Or at least if my lawyer can argue that ownership of property is merely a concept, and that the definition of punching is subject to debate.

[LordRahl]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job! But now the topic of "lots of people" re-sell cracked out CGC books and its not considered fraud... wow... thats really eye opening to someone like me who apparently has no idea how the industry actually works.

 

So let me make sure that I am understanding the message correctly. CGC grading, all grading in fact, is just an opinion which has no merit or basis by which to gauge accuracy.

Simply tossing out a grade of, lets say, 5.5 handed out by a pre-screener and 2 senior graders (aka CGC) and randomly and arbitrarily deciding it is actually 7.5 is considered a fair and standard practice?? Wow. That..... just..... SUCKS.

 

I guess If I go around punching old ladies and taking their purses its their fault that I was younger faster and stronger than them. Or at least if my lawyer can argue that ownership of property is merely a concept, and that the definition of punching is subject to debate.

 

It's a fine line. Is it fraud by the legal definition of fraud? Probably not although I'm not a lawyer. I get where people are coming from that say the grade from CGC is just an opinion. It IS just an opinion but at the same time selling CGC graded books cracked out and listed at 2 grades higher is shady at best. Maybe not outright fraud but the "it's just an opinion" argument seems pretty thin. At best, if you are that far in disagreement with CGC on every book then you just don't know how to grade. But since it's pretty obviously being done intentionally, I'd call it borderline fraud even if it's something that can't be prosecuted in court.

[Junkdrawer]

I guess If I go around punching old ladies and taking their purses its their fault that I was younger faster and stronger than them. Or at least if my lawyer can argue that ownership of property is merely a concept, and that the definition of punching is subject to debate.

If you're giving up your career as an investigator for this, I couldn't agree that you'd be better at it, but I suggest that your first victim be sporting a walker or a hover-round. Some of them 80+ gals may leave you for dead.

[DiceX]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job!

 

I'm not saying you should stop investigating. Just use the info I gave you and use that to do a better job of it next time.

 

 

[Badlands]

All I have to say is...thank you for starting this thread! I was actually watching a Daredevil #1, CGC 7.0 that I was "this close to picking up"! Delete off of watch list; goodbye!

[shadroch]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job! But now the topic of "lots of people" re-sell cracked out CGC books and its not considered fraud... wow... thats really eye opening to someone like me who apparently has no idea how the industry actually works.

 

So let me make sure that I am understanding the message correctly. CGC grading, all grading in fact, is just an opinion which has no merit or basis by which to gauge accuracy.

Simply tossing out a grade of, lets say, 5.5 handed out by a pre-screener and 2 senior graders (aka CGC) and randomly and arbitrarily deciding it is actually 7.5 is considered a fair and standard practice?? Wow. That..... just..... SUCKS.

 

I guess If I go around punching old ladies and taking their purses its their fault that I was younger faster and stronger than them. Or at least if my lawyer can argue that ownership of property is merely a concept, and that the definition of punching is subject to debate.

 

It's a fine line. Is it fraud by the legal definition of fraud? Probably not although I'm not a lawyer. I get where people are coming from that say the grade from CGC is just an opinion. It IS just an opinion but at the same time selling CGC graded books cracked out and listed at 2 grades higher is shady at best. Maybe not outright fraud but the "it's just an opinion" argument seems pretty thin. At best, if you are that far in disagreement with CGC on every book then you just don't know how to grade. But since it's pretty obviously being done intentionally, I'd call it borderline fraud even if it's something that can't be prosecuted in court.

 

 

It is a very shady M.O., but it does not come close to being a crime as the poster suggested.

One example he cites is cracking a VF+ and calling it a NM-.

I could list a few dozen examples of people cracking a Certified PGX book and CGC grading it higher. Is that fraud?

As far as people not knowing how to grade, I'll refer you to the latest forum grading contest. Did anyone manage to get thru the contest without being two grades off on at least one book? Would it be fraud to crack that 7.0 Tomahawk and sell it as anything but the grade CGC certified it to be?

 

[shadroch]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job! But now the topic of "lots of people" re-sell cracked out CGC books and its not considered fraud... wow... thats really eye opening to someone like me who apparently has no idea how the industry actually works.

 

So let me make sure that I am understanding the message correctly. CGC grading, all grading in fact, is just an opinion which has no merit or basis by which to gauge accuracy.

Simply tossing out a grade of, lets say, 5.5 handed out by a pre-screener and 2 senior graders (aka CGC) and randomly and arbitrarily deciding it is actually 7.5 is considered a fair and standard practice?? Wow. That..... just..... SUCKS.

 

 

Ever hear ' Buy the book, not the label'? If you buy a book the seller says is a 7.5 and you don't think it is, you return it. You are buying a raw book, what it might have been before is pretty meaningless. It might have been pressed into an improved grade, or it might just be an overgraded book. If you can't tell the difference between a 5.5 and a 7.0, you might be better off sticking to CGC books in the first place.

[porky]

The name bijoubaby05 reminds me of Adam Sandler's Waterboy character Bobby Boucher. Although thats not a fair comparison, Boucher was honorable. Nonetheless i'll refer to that theif as Boucher.

 

Notice that as soon as porky posted those links, Bobby Boucher ended the auction. Boucher is definitely watching these posts and knows his scams are out in the open now. I say HIS scams, although Boucher accepts payments and has a return shipping address under a female name.

 

Here are just 3 examples of how this person has intentionally deceived buyers and conned collectors out of thousands of dollars:

 

===========================================================

Example 1 - intentionally and deliberately selling a certified graded comic as a condition that it is not to falsely inflate the value

 

1/30/2011 item # 220728608024

bought Xmen #4 CGC 6.5 for $241.83

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&_rdc=1&item=220728608024&si=0ecgKNdP4isJr7B4LjRIjRfossc%253D&viewitem=

 

 

3/31/2011 item # 120700174952

removed CGC casing and sold Xmen #4 as 8.5 for $610.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&_rdc=1&item=120700174952&si=0ecgKNdP4isJr7B4LjRIjRfossc%253D&viewitem=

 

===========================================================

Example 2 - intentionally and deliberately selling a certified graded comic as a condition that it is not to falsely inflate the value

 

3/5/2011 item # 120689021206

bought Spiderman #2 CGC 6.0 restored purple label for $599

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&_rdc=1&item=120689021206&si=0ecgKNdP4isJr7B4LjRIjRfossc%253D&viewitem=

 

 

3/15/2011 item # 120685333103

removed CGC casing and sold Spiderman #2 as 7.5 for $1,152.99

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&_rdc=1&item=120685333103&si=0ecgKNdP4isJr7B4LjRIjRfossc%253D&viewitem=

 

==========================================================

Example 3 - intentionally over grading raw books

 

3/6/2011 item # 320663891175

bought Hulk #181 listed as VF+ for $587.00

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&_rdc=1&item=320663891175&si=0ecgKNdP4isJr7B4LjRIjRfossc%253D&viewitem=

 

 

Currently has Hulk #181 listed as NM- with current bid at $355

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120708771251&_rdc=1

 

==========================================================

 

This information is also being provided to Ebay as intentional and deliberate fraud, as well as to the people who were ripped off in the links above. Also being sent to the people Boucher purchases CGC books from. If someone who isnt trained at grading over-grades a comic and sells it at a higher value to someone who also cant tell the difference, then thats a shame but its not a crime. But to deliberately open up CGC graded comics which have CERTIFIED grades assigned by experts, and then deliberately list them as higher condition, thats called CRIMINAL FRAUD.

 

Please help out by spreading this information to any person or organization whom you think can assist in ending the intentional and deliberate fraud of the comic collecting community. Stealing money is stealing money, no matter how you term the exact form of extortion.

 

The chickens are comin' home to roost, Bobby Boucher. You reap the fruit of your selfish ways.

 

I hate to burst your bubble, and I'm all for someone catching eBay scammers, but this information is false.

 

I checked the X-Men and Spidey books. These are not the same books. I didn't bother checking the Hulk book.

 

The X-Men book being sold by bijoubaby has a lot of extra image at the bottom. The cut is completely different.

 

The Spidey book has a different cut as well. The one sold by bijoubaby has more image on the right side than the other book. Attached is a comparison of the right side, with two areas of note circled. The left book is the restored book, the right is the one sold by bijoubaby.

 

They're not the same books. Come back when you have done your homework a little more thoroughly.

 

...and WTTB.

 

 

the cracked out giant size x-men #1 was the same comics though. guess that's why that one was ended short? some of the other books could have been bought under shill accounts. no reason to think that they're not being misrepresented in one way or another.

[DiceX]

the cracked out giant size x-men #1 was the same comics though. guess that's why that one was ended short? some of the other books could have been bought under shill accounts. no reason to think that they're not being misrepresented in one way or another.

 

I didn't say that there's nothing to be concerned about here. I'm just letting everyone know that the fraud that was being claimed in this particular case was untrue.

Is there fraud here? Possibly.

Is the fraud this, this and this? No.

 

 

[porky]

the cracked out giant size x-men #1 was the same comics though. guess that's why that one was ended short? some of the other books could have been bought under shill accounts. no reason to think that they're not being misrepresented in one way or another.

 

I didn't say that there's nothing to be concerned about here. I'm just letting everyone know that the fraud that was being claimed in this particular case was untrue.

Is there fraud here? Possibly.

Is the fraud this, this and this? No.

 

yeah. i mean, this guy actually *admitted* in an email to me (link to it waaay far back in the thread) that he saw no problem with buying that coverless ASM, taping the cover back on, and selling it for 2-3x the price with disclosure of only "some small pieces of tape on the spine". there is a huge difference between a comic with some tape on it and a comic being held together only by tape.

[shadroch]

Buy a comic with a cover ripped in half.

Put archival tape on it so it doesn't hurt the book and CGC will give it a PLOD.

Put scotch tape on it, which will hurt the book, and you have a good shot at getting a blue label.

[Junkdrawer]

It's quite sad to say that if you happened to be looking for a CGC 6.5 copy of TOS #39 and looked on ebay you would see that Silvercomics has one with OW pages for $5,900 + free shipping (no best offer option) and you would also find one listed from Robojo33 with COW pages for $4,150 + $10.95 shipping and an option to make an offer and get the book for less.

What to do here?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tales-Suspense-39-CGC-6-5-FN-Universal-/200560398014?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb254cebe

.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TALES-SUSPENSE-39-CGC-6-5-1ST-IRON-MAN-APPEARANCE-/180651754228?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0faf02f4

[LordRahl]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job! But now the topic of "lots of people" re-sell cracked out CGC books and its not considered fraud... wow... thats really eye opening to someone like me who apparently has no idea how the industry actually works.

 

So let me make sure that I am understanding the message correctly. CGC grading, all grading in fact, is just an opinion which has no merit or basis by which to gauge accuracy.

Simply tossing out a grade of, lets say, 5.5 handed out by a pre-screener and 2 senior graders (aka CGC) and randomly and arbitrarily deciding it is actually 7.5 is considered a fair and standard practice?? Wow. That..... just..... SUCKS.

 

I guess If I go around punching old ladies and taking their purses its their fault that I was younger faster and stronger than them. Or at least if my lawyer can argue that ownership of property is merely a concept, and that the definition of punching is subject to debate.

 

It's a fine line. Is it fraud by the legal definition of fraud? Probably not although I'm not a lawyer. I get where people are coming from that say the grade from CGC is just an opinion. It IS just an opinion but at the same time selling CGC graded books cracked out and listed at 2 grades higher is shady at best. Maybe not outright fraud but the "it's just an opinion" argument seems pretty thin. At best, if you are that far in disagreement with CGC on every book then you just don't know how to grade. But since it's pretty obviously being done intentionally, I'd call it borderline fraud even if it's something that can't be prosecuted in court.

 

 

It is a very shady M.O., but it does not come close to being a crime as the poster suggested.

One example he cites is cracking a VF+ and calling it a NM-.

I could list a few dozen examples of people cracking a Certified PGX book and CGC grading it higher. Is that fraud?

As far as people not knowing how to grade, I'll refer you to the latest forum grading contest. Did anyone manage to get thru the contest without being two grades off on at least one book? Would it be fraud to crack that 7.0 Tomahawk and sell it as anything but the grade CGC certified it to be?

 

I agree with you right up until the forum contest example. Grading books from scans is about the worst example you could have given in defense. It is NOT POSSIBLE to accurately grade a book from a scan most of the time. Hence the wide variations and missing grades. Scans can hide a lot of things. I can show you plenty of books that look 9.4 from a scan and look 7.0 with the book in hand.

[supapimp]

for the newbies, here is the original thread regarding the bijoubaby05:

 

sleeper cell discovered in december '10

[heliosten]

If the examples I provided are not cracked out CGC books, then I have to admit that I'd make a terrible investigator and I'd better stick to my day job! But now the topic of "lots of people" re-sell cracked out CGC books and its not considered fraud... wow... thats really eye opening to someone like me who apparently has no idea how the industry actually works.

 

So let me make sure that I am understanding the message correctly. CGC grading, all grading in fact, is just an opinion which has no merit or basis by which to gauge accuracy.

Simply tossing out a grade of, lets say, 5.5 handed out by a pre-screener and 2 senior graders (aka CGC) and randomly and arbitrarily deciding it is actually 7.5 is considered a fair and standard practice?? Wow. That..... just..... SUCKS.

 

I can't imagine any scenario in which that would be fraud and heck, i'm not even sure it is anything other than a difference of opinion (assuming the book is not restored!). We all have our reasons why we use CGC. Some for peace of mind, some for financial reasons some of us just like the way a book looks in a slab.

 

I have to be honest, the vast majority of the books I send in come back right about where I graded them. Occasionally I'll get one back that instead of a 9.6 it'll be a 9.2. Since I don't know CGC's grading criteria (I mean we are just guessing unless somebody has some inside info) I just have to chalk it up to a difference of opinion. That being said I wouldn't sell the book without disclosing the fact that CGC and I disagree on the grade.

 

By the way, nice username. Not many people know who Indrid Cold is. I mean an alien in West Virginia of all places!

[MCJ]

I reported the GS X-Men auction to eBay, then used a subsequent report to point eBay's fraud dept. to this thread.

 

Some might think I'm like an overzealous parking enforcement officer, but I'm tired of getting burned in any eBay auction. It's a losing battle, but one worth fighting...

[porky]

I reported the GS X-Men auction to eBay, then used a subsequent report to point eBay's fraud dept. to this thread.

 

Some might think I'm like an overzealous parking enforcement officer, but I'm tired of getting burned in any eBay auction. It's a losing battle, but one worth fighting...

 

i've nearly given up on people who sell comics on feeBay on a regular basis. i try to find original owner, estate sale, old store inventory, etc. it takes a bit of looking and you have to gamble a little since the sellers generally aren't good at grading, but i'm usually happy with what i get.

[MCJ]

I haven't given up entirely, either. I met with the daughter of the original owner of some early silver age Marvel, and we couldn't agree on price. Her dad had bought a copy of ASM #1 off the newsstand as a kid, and early JIM, too. I could see the condition of the books get better as he got older, but he used tape on some of the early issues. Heartbreaking!

 

It made me happy that she had a copy of Overstreet with her, at least to have some idea of the values. The things you can find on Craigslist sometimes boggles the mind.