tth2's trip down memory lane

[JLA Brad]

Tim,

 

You sold a 9.6 #15, I presume because you were selling your collection, yet you bid on and won another #15 later on.

 

Is this a case of every time you think you get out they drag you back in???

 

If you are liquidating your collection, why bother?? Old habits die hard?

 

The scan of the first #15 must not do it justice because the second scan looks much nicer.

 

[tth2]

Tim,

 

You sold a 9.6 #15, I presume because you were selling your collection, yet you bid on and won another #15 later on.

 

Is this a case of every time you think you get out they drag you back in???

 

If you are liquidating your collection, why bother?? Old habits die hard?

Naw, just opportunistic buying to flip later. I set low bids on the Levittown books and was surprised to end up winning quite a few of them.

 

The scan of the first #15 must not do it justice because the second scan looks much nicer.

Yeah, it shows that the initial quality of the scan can make a big difference. The first #15 does look nicer than its scan. The Levittown #15 does look very nice, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. I was just saying that it wasn't as spectacular as some of the books from some of the more notable pedigrees or collections. Believe me, saying that something is not as nice as a Toth doesn't mean it's a bad book!

[COI]

Great thread, Tim. You've managed to make a thread about collecting DCs fascinating to me, which is quite a feat.

 

One can only imagine what your collection would look like now, had you continued collecting.

 

 

[tth2]

Great thread, Tim. You've managed to make a thread about collecting DCs fascinating to me, which is quite a feat.

Come to the dark side, Andrew, it's calling you!

 

[tth2]

Just one book today, the Levittown copy of JLA #13, as time permitting, I'm going to post a couple of Toth books tomorrow and wanted to keep them together.

 

While not super hard to find in NM, JLA #13 has always commanded consistently high prices. It's tough to find without a miswrap, however. Acesilver's copy was one of the nicest I'd ever seen, but unfortunately I failed to get it when he auctioned it off in 2005. Fortunately I was able to pick up this copy when it turned up a few years ago. It now resides in Canada.

 

[innocuous]

That's a nice one, again, with the great centering.

[tth2]

I've posted a book from the David Toth collection already, but will talk a bit more at length about the collection today. It is, in my humble opinion, one of the truly great SA DC pedigrees (Toth didn't start collecting Marvels until much later), even if CGC in its infinite wisdom didn't "officially" give it a pedigree designation. On a book for book basis, I think many of the books hold their own with Western Penns, Curators and PCs and maybe actually even exceed books from those pedigrees in terms of freshness and eye appeal. The first thing that struck me when Heritage started posting the books was how immaculate and white the back covers were.

 

A little background on the collection, some of which was provided by Andrew Toth, David's son, who joined us on the boards for a while and provided lots of interesting information:

 

It first surfaced in early 2008, brought to market by Heritage. According to Andrew, his dad accumulated his collection growing up in Granite City, Illinois (on the east side of the river from St. Louis) from about 1955-68 before taking a break when he went to college. He would buy them at a five and dime store that his mom worked at. He was selective from the start, as he always tried to get the ones from the middle of the stack so they wouldn’t have twine creases. Interestingly, according to Andrew, his dad read every single book (apparently very carefully, given the pristine nature of the books).

 

How did they stay so pristine? From Andrew's account, it wasn't the standard story of book simply being put in a cool dry place and then being left there untouched and unmoved for decades:

 

Storage evolved over time,originally in daily newspaper plastic bags. When the technology evolved, into polybags. They went through about 3 bag changes over the years. My dad was also pretty cheap no boards. When storage became an issue he put them in long boxs, turned the box on end and filled it with as many as he could so they've basically been pressing for about 30 yrs. You couldn't even get a dime into these boxes, very tight.

 

They were not kept in a vault or anything like that. While my dad was stationed in Germany they were in his parents basement in Ill., when he got back and I was born I always remember them being in the garage, my mom wasn’t real big on having them in the house. They survived 5 different moves and when we settled down here they were in a storage locker (not climate controlled) for at least 5 yrs. Till I moved out and put them in my old room.

 

This might explain why structurally they're not always as perfect as some other pedigrees (although I think many of the earlier issues are still highest in the census and the reality is that Heritage did press the books where they thought it necessary), but it is really amazing that the books stayed so fresh, particularly sitting out in the garage. It really makes you think whether maybe squeezing out all the air (similar to the Edgar Churck stacking technique) is the key.

 

What really stood out about the collection was how many nice books there were from the late 1950s and those critical pre-1964 years, and critically many of the keys in great condition.

 

I could go on and on about how inexplicable it was that CGC didn't "officially" designate the collection as a pedigree. I think one reason they cited was the lack of depth, which does have some validity. There are no Marvels, so the eyes of 85% of the collecting population immediately glazed over. Even among the DCs, the depth of the collection wasn't as great as some other pedigrees, as David focused on a few characters, so the general theme was Superman and Batman and titles that they appeared in. He did pick up Flash and Green Lantern and other titles as he went along, but not so much in terms of Brave and Bold or Showcase. Andrew's explanation:

 

Green Lantern & Flash are two of my dad's favorite characters. Unfortunately their runs both started mid way. Flash started w/ 122 at least he got in before the major key and GL starts at 8. I asked him once way he didn’t have earlier ones and he thinks maybe the store just never got them.

 

There are B&B and Showcase runs but in the beginning he would only buy them if it had a character he liked if not he’d pass. So there are some early holes but it gets complete pretty quick.

 

Fortunately he started buying Flash at 122, as the #123 graded out as a 9.4!

 

I think one thing that's indisputable is that the finest early run of JLA to date comes from the Toth collection. The PCs don't go below the teens and to my knowledge don't contain the B&Bs, and I'm not aware of any identified Western Penn or Curator JLAs or B&Bs. I think the Brave & Bolds plus the JLA #1, alone, win the contest hands down for Toth, but judge for yourself (these were the initial grades from CGC, who knows what has happened to any of those books since):

 

B&B:

28.......... 9.2

29.......... 9.0

30.......... 9.2

 

JLA:

1............ 9.4

2............ 9.2

3............ 9.4 Q

4............ 9.2

5............ 9.2

6............ 9.4

7............ 8.0

8............ 9.4

9............ 9.6

10.......... 9.4

11.......... 9.6

12.......... 9.4

13.......... 9.4

14.......... 9.0

15.......... 9.0

16.......... 9.4

17.......... 9.4

18.......... 9.4

19.......... 9.0

20.......... 9.2

 

So having said all of that, I only had 3 Toth JLAs myself (I did win some other books from other titles, either in the first auction or in subsequent auctions), but they're real beauties. I didn't know just how nice the books were until after the first main auction had been held, unfortunately, otherwise I probably would've gone harder after more. I've posted the #16 already, the next book, JLA #10, is one of my very favorite book of all the books I've owned. It's "only" a 9.4, but it's sheer freshness was just amazing. This was one of the few books I would actually pull out from time to time just to look at.

 

 

And then the last of my Toth JLAs was #8, also a real beauty.

 

 

The #10 resides in England now, and the #8 is in Canada.

[Bomber-Bob]

The PCs don't go below the teens and to my knowledge don't contain the B&Bs, and I'm not aware of any identified Western Penn or Curator JLAs or B&Bs. I think the Brave & Bolds plus the JLA #1, alone, win the contest hands down for Toth, but judge for yourself (these were the initial grades from CGC, who knows what has happened to any of those books since):

I know there was a Curator JLA #11. John Hauser kept it for a long time before finally selling it. He said it was a personal childhood favorite. I think it was 'only' an 8.5. Though John sold off all the Curator Marvels I know he likes to keep DC in his personal collection so maybe he has some Curators ?

BTW, great thread. I am really enjoying it. Thanks.

 

 

 

[JLA Brad]

Tim,

 

For a non pedigree like Toth, there really is no way to identify it as such thereafter unless the seller imparts that info to you? If so, kind of a shame, although I would imagine the CGC code must give it away (all Toths would be in a sequence?)

[markseifert]

Great roundup of the Toth collection's background. (thumbs u

[tth2]

Tim,

 

For a non pedigree like Toth, there really is no way to identify it as such thereafter unless the seller imparts that info to you? If so, kind of a shame, although I would imagine the CGC code must give it away (all Toths would be in a sequence?)

Unfortunately there are no distinguishing marks, so no way to track them unless they stay in the same slab, you recognize the book for some particular reason, or the seller tells you. But there have already been a number of Toths that have been cracked and resubbed and then not been identified as a Toth upon resale. Unfortunately, it seems like when CGC doesn't recognize a collection, then the vast majority of the market immediately assume that it isn't significant and don't care about tracking the provenance anymore.

[kimik]

To be honest, I am kind of surprised that Heritage did not issue a bunch of cheap COAs for the books even though it was not recognized as a pedigree by CGC. A b&w photocopy like FT did on his own with the Mildenhall books way back when would have sufficed.

[JLA Brad]

Tim,

 

Is there one particular comic that you never acquired, but you had a realistic shot at getting? Kind of the opposite of this thread I guess - the one that you regret not obtaining?

[kimik]

My guess is the first Clink 9.0 SC #22 or another HG copy that was raw (Western Penn?)?

 

Or, a 9.2+ copy of SC #4?

[tth2]

Tim,

 

Is there one particular comic that you never acquired, but you had a realistic shot at getting? Kind of the opposite of this thread I guess - the one that you regret not obtaining?

Lots! I`m the kind of person who tends to dwell on my failures rather than my achievements, so there are lots of missed opportunities that are burned in my memory.

 

The Newsboy 9.6 Showcase #4, at the price that it ended up selling at, probably leads the list (although of course the winner was probably willing to go a whole lot higher).

 

9.4 Showcase #23.

 

Western Penn 9.4 Flash #123.

 

Curator, PC and Western Penn copies of MGA 80 (all 9.6).

 

PC or Mass copies of Flash #137 (both 9.6).

 

Various 9.4 copies of Atom #1.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

[tth2]

My guess is the first Clink 9.0 SC #22 or another HG copy that was raw (Western Penn?)?

Only regretted them retroactively because of their massive increases in price, but no, I never coveted any of the 9.0 copies that have come up over the years.

 

Or, a 9.2+ copy of SC #4?

If you mean above, but not including, the 9.2 copy, then yes.

 

Although I thought about making an offer for the 9.2 copy just to put it out of its misery.

[jimjum12]

Tim,

 

For a non pedigree like Toth, there really is no way to identify it as such thereafter unless the seller imparts that info to you? If so, kind of a shame, although I would imagine the CGC code must give it away (all Toths would be in a sequence?)

Unfortunately there are no distinguishing marks, so no way to track them unless they stay in the same slab, you recognize the book for some particular reason, or the seller tells you. But there have already been a number of Toths that have been cracked and resubbed and then not been identified as a Toth upon resale. Unfortunately, it seems like when CGC doesn't recognize a collection, then the vast majority of the market immediately assume that it isn't significant and don't care about tracking the provenance anymore.

 

.....which is quite an oversight when it comes to the Toth books. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[thirdgreenham]

 

 

 

 

What a neat cover! Never seen it before.

[JLA Brad]

Tim,

 

We're waiting...

[Hepcat]

And then the last of my Toth JLAs was #8, also a real beauty.

 

 

Love that copy! Justice League 8 had a key formative influence on me. A copy I read at summer camp in 1962 made me want to buy and read many more superhero comics. I've been a lifelong fan of Silver Age DC comics ever since.