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tth2's trip down memory lane

Started by tth2,

587 posts in this topic

adamstrange

adamstrange

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Posted
Brave and Bold #36, Western Penn copy. One of my very favorite SA DC covers and vastly underrated in my opinion. Murphy Anderson kind of riffed on this cover when he did the cover of Hawkman #5.

 

BB36.jpg

 

I agree! Brave & the Bold 36 has one of the very best covers of the Silver Age.

 

(thumbs u

Killer cover! :headbang:

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tth2

tth2

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Tim any reason why you never picked up a nice BB 44 ? I personally like that cover the best of the BB bunch, DC grey tone covers are great.

The second set wasn't among the Western Penn copies offered to me. When the PC copy of #44 came up on Heritage it went for a very hefty price, and I was too strapped as I believe that was the same auction I bought either the GL #1 and some other GLs or the B&B #28 (it all kind of blurs together now, but I know that I my funds were focused elsewhere during that auction). If I recall, Mark Wilson was the winner and he then marked it up even more, so it remained unaffordable for me. I understand it lies in safe hands now. ;)

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tth2

tth2

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Just one post today, but it happens to feature my very favorite SA DC cover. I've owned the Winnipeg copy too, but even raw it didn't match the electric blue of the Western Penn copy, even through a slab. Also, this book is notorious for being miswrapped, so the Western Penn copy really stands out for its excellent centering. I've actually owned it twice now. I purchased it from the collector along with many other Western Penn books, sold it on Heritage 4 years ago, bought it back again in a private deal and then resold it early this year. I'm happy to say it now resides in the very safe hands of a boardie.

 

BB34.jpg

 

For folks wondering where a certain other Brave and Bold might be, I think it will be best presented with the JLAs. ;)

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tth2

tth2

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Tim, based on all of the HG copies you have owned, which collection would be the top for SA DCs - Western Penn? Pacific Coast? Another?

 

From earlier in this thread:

 

The best overall SA DC pedigree, in my opinion, is the Western Penn collection. On an individual basis, the books are absolutely killer. Structurally they're outstanding, and the ones in old labels, which were slabbed by Tom, were not pressed. In terms of eye appeal, they're second to none. The freshness of the books and the lustre of the inks are really incredible, even through a slab. The inks look positively wet.

 

The con of the Western Penn pedigree is that they're not as well accounted for as other pedigrees such as PC and Mass. To this day I've never seen, to my knowledge, a Western Penn Atom, GL, JLA, Adventure or Aquaman. Tom says they all exist, but where they are nobody knows. Perhaps they're still tucked away. Perhaps the owners don't even know they're Western Penns because the collection was branded after they were first brought to market. Perhaps some have emerged but were not identified as Western Penns because the owners didn't know at the time they were sold, and they haven't been identified as such since then because for the most part there are no distinguishing marks on the books.

 

On the other hand, where the Western Penn run has it over the PCs, in my opinion, is that it goes back much further in higher grade and contains more ultra-HG major SA DC keys. The Western Penn run contains a Showcase 34, a B&B 34 (more on that later) and a Flash 123, all in 9.4. Based on what is known to exist (and I'll be showing many more later, particularly when we get to the Flash), and assuming that the other titles have been preserved and are as good as what has emerged so far, I think it's the king of the SA DC pedigree hill. Anyways, judge for yourself (although I note the scan doesn't really do the book justice)...

The Western Penn B&B run illustrates my point about the Western Penn collection being superior to the PC pedigree because it goes back further in high grade than PC. The Hawkman B&Bs are from 1961.

 

Nothing from the PC collection as far back as 1961, whether DC or Marvel, is in as good condition. I haven't seen any Curators from that far back. White Mountains and Bethlehems have NM examples from that period and earlier, but they're sporadic. Toths perhaps come closest to rivaling Western Penn when it comes to the earlier SA books, and maybe even surpassing Western Penn in some cases, but I don't think they have the same consistency throughout the runs.

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tth2

tth2

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One day, maybe in the far distant future, there will be more then 2 people on this planet who think Brave and the Bold 34 is an incredible book and one of the best of the Silver Age.

In fairness, I think B&B 34 is an appreciated book, but also for some strange reason it is by far the most common of the early SA DC big keys, which has helped to suppress its price. The CGC census shows 5 copies in 9.4 and 4 in 9.2, which is an incredibly high amount for a book from 1961. If there were Marvels from 1961 besides FF #1, I would say those are Marvel-like numbers.

 

Any thoughts from the gallery on why this is the case? Is it because it was indeed a prized book from early on and thus preserved in higher numbers?

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adamstrange

adamstrange

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Been through the entire thread and not one mention of action 1 lol

Not any more :mad:

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kimik

kimik

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Tim, based on all of the HG copies you have owned, which collection would be the top for SA DCs - Western Penn? Pacific Coast? Another?

 

From earlier in this thread:

 

The best overall SA DC pedigree, in my opinion, is the Western Penn collection. On an individual basis, the books are absolutely killer. Structurally they're outstanding, and the ones in old labels, which were slabbed by Tom, were not pressed. In terms of eye appeal, they're second to none. The freshness of the books and the lustre of the inks are really incredible, even through a slab. The inks look positively wet.

 

The con of the Western Penn pedigree is that they're not as well accounted for as other pedigrees such as PC and Mass. To this day I've never seen, to my knowledge, a Western Penn Atom, GL, JLA, Adventure or Aquaman. Tom says they all exist, but where they are nobody knows. Perhaps they're still tucked away. Perhaps the owners don't even know they're Western Penns because the collection was branded after they were first brought to market. Perhaps some have emerged but were not identified as Western Penns because the owners didn't know at the time they were sold, and they haven't been identified as such since then because for the most part there are no distinguishing marks on the books.

 

On the other hand, where the Western Penn run has it over the PCs, in my opinion, is that it goes back much further in higher grade and contains more ultra-HG major SA DC keys. The Western Penn run contains a Showcase 34, a B&B 34 (more on that later) and a Flash 123, all in 9.4. Based on what is known to exist (and I'll be showing many more later, particularly when we get to the Flash), and assuming that the other titles have been preserved and are as good as what has emerged so far, I think it's the king of the SA DC pedigree hill. Anyways, judge for yourself (although I note the scan doesn't really do the book justice)...

The Western Penn B&B run illustrates my point about the Western Penn collection being superior to the PC pedigree because it goes back further in high grade than PC. The Hawkman B&Bs are from 1961.

 

Nothing from the PC collection as far back as 1961, whether DC or Marvel, is in as good condition. I haven't seen any Curators from that far back. White Mountains and Bethlehems have NM examples from that period and earlier, but they're sporadic. Toths perhaps come closest to rivaling Western Penn when it comes to the earlier SA books, and maybe even surpassing Western Penn in some cases, but I don't think they have the same consistency throughout the runs.

 

doh! I forgot about that.

 

FWIW, I would love to see the Western Penn SC #22-24 run based on the ad that Linmoth posted. If I recall, it was graded as a NM or better, right?

 

 

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showcase22gr1959

showcase22gr1959

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One day, maybe in the far distant future, there will be more then 2 people on this planet who think Brave and the Bold 34 is an incredible book and one of the best of the Silver Age.

In fairness, I think B&B 34 is an appreciated book, but also for some strange reason it is by far the most common of the early SA DC big keys, which has helped to suppress its price. The CGC census shows 5 copies in 9.4 and 4 in 9.2, which is an incredibly high amount for a book from 1961. If there were Marvels from 1961 besides FF #1, I would say those are Marvel-like numbers.

 

Any thoughts from the gallery on why this is the case? Is it because it was indeed a prized book from early on and thus preserved in higher numbers?

 

I wonder if 12-18 months after 1960's were the early days of HG preservation. BTW. nice BB34.

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Hepcat

Hepcat

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Also, this book(Brave & the Bold 34) is notorious for being miswrapped....

 

Truth.

 

In fairness, I think B&B 34 is an appreciated book, but also for some strange reason it is by far the most common of the early SA DC big keys, which has helped to suppress its price. The CGC census shows 5 copies in 9.4 and 4 in 9.2, which is an incredibly high amount for a book from 1961. If there were Marvels from 1961 besides FF #1, I would say those are Marvel-like numbers.

 

Any thoughts from the gallery on why this is the case? Is it because it was indeed a prized book from early on and thus preserved in higher numbers?

 

It was indeed a prized book early on. Joe Kubert was even then a cult artist and his Hawkman B & B run was mentioned on more than one occasion in Julius Schwartz letter columns.

 

:preach:

 

 

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tth2

tth2

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Before moving on to the F's, I'm posting 2 books that would otherwise be isolated if I just stuck to alphabetical order.

 

First up is the previously referenced Aquaman #1. Purchased from Ronnie Murray but brokered through Steve Lauterbach. I was nice to Steve because I had heard from other sources that Ronnie had the book at San Diego and could have gone directly to Ronnie, but since Steve was the first to bring it to my attention, I made the purchase through him. According to Ronnie, the book came from a little old Chinese lady in Millbrae, California, who was also the source of some amazing early Flash which I'll be posting soon.

 

Even though Ronnie was asking a very aggressive price for the book, I was happy to pay it because it was still well south of the $20K that Robert Roter was demanding at the time for the PC copy, which was a 9.4. :screwy:

 

aquaman1nm96oww.jpg

 

 

The second book is a Showcase #38, and I guess the theme for today is Steve Lauterbach since this book was purchased from him off eBay, I believe. This is very possibly the nicest 9.8 I've ever owned. It is truly immaculate and the gloss and eye appeal of the red cover is simply amazing.

 

The Metal Men run in Showcase is incredibly difficult to find in NM or better. #38 is relatively easy compared to the other issues, with the conjecture being that it was included in a 3-pack, but even then it's not super common in NM.

 

showcase38-1.jpg

 

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