Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[tth2]

You know the one thing no one seems to be mentioning in relation to the prices Doug's books brought? The fact that it was Doug selling them. Lots of people were stating before the auction that they would not bid on his books because they did not want to support him. Why is it now after the auction is over, people aren't talking about the fact that there were potential bidders taken out of the equation based simply on the consignor? Why is that not being factored into the realized prices? Obviously it would have had a negative impact. Less bidders = lower prices in almost every case.

Because most of the people talking most loudly about not bidding on Doug`s books were never real players in the first place.

[sufunk]

I'm confused; looked over Doug's auction a few minutes ago and if I read the site correctly, the Avengers #57 indicates that it went for approx $9500 w/BP and that the new owner is accepting bids starting at approx $12,500.

 

Based on your many comments in the thread it's clear you'd never sell, so what am I missing??

 

Thanks...harry.

 

Can someone give me a link to this because im not seeing it???

 

Yeah, my book has the little "make offer to owner" tab like 90% of the books in the auction. Maybe i see it different because i am the owner and it wont let me click that tab without logging in so i cant do it without it knowing im the owner.

 

When i clicked the tab for a couple books i didnt buy at random, i see under the bid it says the minimum bid and then "The owner is actively considering offers". Is this what it says when you click on my Avengers 57??? It says "Im actively considering offers"???

 

Can someone please log on and go to page 2 where my Avengers 57 is and click the make offer tab and see if it says that for me?

 

If its showing you guys that, i have a MAJOR problem with what HA.com is doing as that is nothing more than a big fat LIE! Could someone please confirm for me that it says this before i really get pissed and cause a stink ?

[LordRahl]

You know the one thing no one seems to be mentioning in relation to the prices Doug's books brought? The fact that it was Doug selling them. Lots of people were stating before the auction that they would not bid on his books because they did not want to support him. Why is it now after the auction is over, people aren't talking about the fact that there were potential bidders taken out of the equation based simply on the consignor? Why is that not being factored into the realized prices? Obviously it would have had a negative impact. Less bidders = lower prices in almost every case.

Because most of the people talking most loudly about not bidding on Doug`s books were never real players in the first place.

 

Sure, for the stuff that was going for 20, 30, 50, 100K. Not too many of those books went cheap however. Do you need to be a "real player" to bid in the 1-10K range? That's where most of the "bargains" happened. I have a hard time believing that his reputation didn't cost him some legit bidders and therefore lower prices.

[Twistty1]

Yes, I just looked and it says that this owner has indicated that they are entertaining offers on this item...

[LordRahl]

I'm confused; looked over Doug's auction a few minutes ago and if I read the site correctly, the Avengers #57 indicates that it went for approx $9500 w/BP and that the new owner is accepting bids starting at approx $12,500.

 

Based on your many comments in the thread it's clear you'd never sell, so what am I missing??

 

Thanks...harry.

 

Can someone give me a link to this because im not seeing it???

 

Yeah, my book has the little "make offer to owner" tab like 90% of the books in the auction. Maybe i see it different because i am the owner and it wont let me click that tab without logging in so i cant do it without it knowing im the owner.

 

When i clicked the tab for a couple books i didnt buy at random, i see under the bid it says the minimum bid and then "The owner is actively considering offers". Is this what it says when you click on my Avengers 57??? It says "Im actively considering offers"???

 

Can someone please log on and go to page 2 where my Avengers 57 is and click the make offer tab and see if it says that for me?

 

If its showing you guys that, i have a MAJOR problem with what HA.com is doing as that is nothing more than a big fat LIE! Could someone please confirm for me that it says this before i really get pissed and cause a stink ?

 

You may want to check and see if there is some sort of default setting that is set to accept bids on ANY book you win from Heritage. I think something like that exists as I get offers for books I don't even own anymore but I haven't bothered to check into it.

[8milemax]

here's a screen shoot

 

 

[sufunk]

here's a screen shoot

 

 

 

What does it say if you click the green make an offer box?

 

When I do it for other books, it says "the owner is actively accepting bids"? That's what I REALLY want to know if it says for mine now!

 

I don't care about make an offer . It they want to try that it's fine by me. If it says I'm actively accepting offers when I'm not though, I have a BIG Aproblem with that that can't be explained away with some default setting. That would just be a flat out lie!

[AJD]

Some of the off-beat Gaines titles went for around guide or less !

 

I noticed that too late.

[lou_fine]

The market moving forward is gong to be all about keys and classic covers. Who can afford to start collecting as a "completionist" in today's market? From personal experience, I know it's easier to pay nosebleed prices and set GPA records to get that last book or two you need to complete a run than to start from scratch.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

I've been saying this exact thing for years now.

 

It's been like this for decades as I was given the exact same advice back in the 80's and 90's.

 

You should always go for the keys and classic covers and in the highest grade possible. If you spent all of your money on non-keys or run-of-the-mill books in half decent shape, you won't have any money left when the true investment quality books come along. (thumbs u

Actually, percentage-wise, the BEST investment to put your money into in the 80s and 90s was ultra-high grade non-keys and run-of-the-mill SA and BA books. That`s where CGC and the internet caused the greatest jump in prices.

 

Now, the prices of those ultra-HG non-keys and run-of-the-mill SA and BA books are plummeting, and everyone is piling into the keys as the last refuge because they`re still going up in price. I`ve said this before--the emergence of a "Nifty Fifty" phenomenon usually signals that last leg of a bubble.

 

Sorry about the confusion as I was actually referring to GA books with my earlier comments. I was also referring to books in half decent condition (as opposed to HG books) and these books in SA and BA would certainly not have worked out from an investment point of view.

 

Yes, at that time it would have been relatively easy to complete your SA and BA runs, although the early SA would still have been tough to find in true HG condition. I remember there was not a lot of interest in SA back in the mid to the latter part of the 80's. I would sometimes even get a nice SA book or 2 tossed into my order as a courtesy thank you for my order. This was how I was able to acquire my uber HG copy of FF Annual #2 with the great Doctor Doom stories.

 

I remember being offered what was supposed to be an uber HG run of ASM #2 - #10 for the princely sum of $1K back in '87 or '88. After thinking about it for a week, I decided to pass on the offer as it did not have a ASM #1 in the set and something that I would then always be thinking about. Not sure about the exact order, but the set then passed though the hands of Geppi, the Dentist, and Steve Hunt.

 

Definitely my biggest regret and blunder as SA started its big upward move in '89 after sitting and doing absolutely nothing for the previous 5 or 6 years.

[lou_fine]

The WM AF 15 is a great example - isn't this the book that sold for an "earth shattering" $40k in the early 90's, and for $120k as a slabbed 9.4 in 2005? Wonder what $40k worth of NM/NM+ WM runs (non-key, mid-run books) purchased in the early 90's would have brought during the 2009/2010 peak?

I was thinking the same thing, although to be fair the 9.4 WM AF 15 would probably go for around $300K today, so call it a 800% increase.

 

If you put the same $40K into NM/M non-key, mid-run books during the same period, I think they`d be worth well over $300K today.

 

I think the only problem is that I`m not sure it would`ve been physically possible to spent $40K on non-key, mid-run books at the time. I can`t imagine runs of non-key, mid-run TOS, TTA, Strange Tales, Avengers, FF and DD costing $40K in 1992. You`d probably have to branch into BA too to spend all your money.

 

In fact, I would guess that in percentage terms, BA has been the biggest bonanza. I bet percentage-wise, the biggest moneymaker for Doug by far has actually been the boxes of Winnipeg BAs that he got for peanuts from Greenhalgh.

 

You have to remember that $40K was a lot of money to spend on a comic back in the early 90's, especially for a SA book. When the WM AF 15 sold for $40K, it was guiding for only $7K at top of guide then. This would be the equivalent of having the WM AF 15 sell for $850K in 2012, and I am not sure if this would actually be achieveable in today's market. I also believe there were attempts to resell the book later in the 90's, but no takers in sight at the price being asked which was only a modest increase over the original purchase price.

 

Yes, uber HG BA books have probably done best percentage-wise from a pure investment point of view. Anything less than HG in Bronze though, you probably would not be able to recoup your initial outlay. Remember, it's also always easier to get a higher ROI if the underlying value is low to start with.

 

Maybe in 20 years from now, we'll all be saying how we should have put our money into uber HG Modern Age books.

[tth2]

You know the one thing no one seems to be mentioning in relation to the prices Doug's books brought? The fact that it was Doug selling them. Lots of people were stating before the auction that they would not bid on his books because they did not want to support him. Why is it now after the auction is over, people aren't talking about the fact that there were potential bidders taken out of the equation based simply on the consignor? Why is that not being factored into the realized prices? Obviously it would have had a negative impact. Less bidders = lower prices in almost every case.

Because most of the people talking most loudly about not bidding on Doug`s books were never real players in the first place.

 

Sure, for the stuff that was going for 20, 30, 50, 100K. Not too many of those books went cheap however. Do you need to be a "real player" to bid in the 1-10K range? That's where most of the "bargains" happened. I have a hard time believing that his reputation didn't cost him some legit bidders and therefore lower prices.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that Doug`s rep didn`t seem to hurt his overall gross. You may be right, that a portion of the bidding population on the smaller books weren`t there because of their disdain for Doug, which may have impacted the price. But I think mainly prices fell on the non-keys because the previous prices weren`t sustainable.

[tth2]

You have to remember that $40K was a lot of money to spend on a comic back in the early 90's, especially for a SA book.

Believe me, I remember very well what an incredible amount of money $40K was back then, particularly for a SA book.

 

Yes, uber HG BA books have probably done best percentage-wise from a pure investment point of view. Anything less than HG in Bronze though, you probably would not be able to recoup your initial outlay.

Which begs the question why in the world would you not have bought HG Bronze back then, given that many issues were going for single digit prices. If you bought BA even as low as NM- back in the 80s and early 90s, you would be well ahead today. Maybe not 800% returns, but still very good returns.

 

Remember, it's also always easier to get a higher ROI if the underlying value is low to start with.

That`s my point. That`s why I was saying your advice to focus only on the high dollar, big keys back in the 80s and 90s was actually not such great advice. The same $40K spread out over many non-key mid-run high grade SAs and BAs would`ve resulted in a much better return.

 

Maybe in 20 years from now, we'll all be saying how we should have put our money into uber HG Modern Age books.

Perhaps you should learn from your own history and realize that those items which are held in the most disdain at any given moment in time can turn out to provide the most superior returns, whereas if you chase what`s hot you are in danger of being left holding the bag. You turned up your nose at ASM 2-10 because SA hadn`t moved in 5 or 6 years. That`s precisely the reason you SHOULD have bought the books.

[tth2]

I remember being offered what was supposed to be an uber HG run of ASM #2 - #10 for the princely sum of $1K back in '87 or '88. After thinking about it for a week, I decided to pass on the offer as it did not have a ASM #1 in the set and something that I would then always be thinking about. Not sure about the exact order, but the set then passed though the hands of Geppi, the Dentist, and Steve Hunt.

 

Definitely my biggest regret and blunder as SA started its big upward move in '89 after sitting and doing absolutely nothing for the previous 5 or 6 years.

And yet, the advice you constantly espouse on the boards seems to indicate that you never learned from this experience.

[ComicConnoisseur]

I have seen a lot of stuff going for under guide. The Batman stuff is drastically down, guess the new movie hasn't brought any additional excitement for the title.

 

$10MIL in one auction PLUS all the other auctions running around us is just more than our relatively small hobby can handle.

 

It looks like we've hit a ceiling as far as how much money we can suck out of people's pockets before we all run out of cash.

 

I'd be surprised if anyone consigns another similar collection all in one shot like this, at least until there is an indication that there is more money to spend in the future than there is right now.

 

I would have to say comic books are a big hobby,as what other hobby has billion dollar blockbusters like Avengers,Batman and Spider-man to promote them?

I think maybe the reason why that most of the Batman and Avenger books were down in price is they were not keys. The investor or collector who spends decent money wants keys,as the days of trying to get a complete run of Avengers 1-100 or ASM 1 to 100 are really not appealling as they once were.

I also don`t buy the reason why these books didn`t get their prices was because of Doug Schmell. Most comic collectors would sell their soul to the devil to get that CGC 9.8,so I don`t see Doug Schmell being a factor in the comic book prices decline.

Nope we go back to the fact that even a comic book layman knows that AF #15 or Walking Dead #1 is where it's at to spend decent money then generic bronze aged Avengers or Batman.

So what we know is that most collectors/investors are now competing for those same key books(AF#15,Batman #1,etc ...)while the other non-key fall pricewise.

[chunkybutt]

I'm confused; looked over Doug's auction a few minutes ago and if I read the site correctly, the Avengers #57 indicates that it went for approx $9500 w/BP and that the new owner is accepting bids starting at approx $12,500.

 

Based on your many comments in the thread it's clear you'd never sell, so what am I missing??

 

Thanks...harry.

 

Huh??? It says I'm accepting bids on my Avengers 57?!?

 

That BETTER be an automatic thing because I can assure you it's not for sale, I'm not accepting bids and no way in hell would I sell it for 12,500 or any other price unless someone was going to go so far over the top I'd have to be insane to refuse (thumbs u

 

If it is on there like that, that's BS!!! I don't like that and they have no right IMO to have it on their site like it's possibly for sale cus it ain't!

 

It's been opined that it's an auto thing but not every book indicates that the new owner is interested in new bids.

 

On another note it appears that there are approx 12 books for resale immediately with an average buy price of about a grand and an average new BIN of about 6 grand.

 

has the world gone nuts? (Or is my boy G-Man involved??)

 

 

I can assure you it's not for sale and the only way I'd consider it would be if someone was going to give me well over 20k. There's another 9.8 Pedigree on eBay for $19,999 so if I could replace it with that and make a profit, obviously I'd do that. Also obviously though, that ain't happening since anyone could have placed one more bid and bought it themselves much less pay double what I did!

 

Yours looks better than the one on ebay

[chunkybutt]

You know the one thing no one seems to be mentioning in relation to the prices Doug's books brought? The fact that it was Doug selling them. Lots of people were stating before the auction that they would not bid on his books because they did not want to support him. Why is it now after the auction is over, people aren't talking about the fact that there were potential bidders taken out of the equation based simply on the consignor? Why is that not being factored into the realized prices? Obviously it would have had a negative impact. Less bidders = lower prices in almost every case.

Because most of the people talking most loudly about not bidding on Doug`s books were never real players in the first place.

 

Sure, for the stuff that was going for 20, 30, 50, 100K. Not too many of those books went cheap however. Do you need to be a "real player" to bid in the 1-10K range? That's where most of the "bargains" happened. I have a hard time believing that his reputation didn't cost him some legit bidders and therefore lower prices.

 

I did not even look at the X-Men books and I could have bought 1-3 of the later issues.

While I may not be a "real player" some of those books did not realize their full potential as I was not involved in the bidding. Who knows, I could have bid up 2 dozen books or so, if I kept getting outbid.

 

Surely there were people with deeper pockets than mine with the same or similar morales.

[ComicConnoisseur]

You know the one thing no one seems to be mentioning in relation to the prices Doug's books brought? The fact that it was Doug selling them. Lots of people were stating before the auction that they would not bid on his books because they did not want to support him. Why is it now after the auction is over, people aren't talking about the fact that there were potential bidders taken out of the equation based simply on the consignor? Why is that not being factored into the realized prices? Obviously it would have had a negative impact. Less bidders = lower prices in almost every case.

Because most of the people talking most loudly about not bidding on Doug`s books were never real players in the first place.

 

Sure, for the stuff that was going for 20, 30, 50, 100K. Not too many of those books went cheap however. Do you need to be a "real player" to bid in the 1-10K range? That's where most of the "bargains" happened. I have a hard time believing that his reputation didn't cost him some legit bidders and therefore lower prices.

 

I did not even look at the X-Men books and I could have bought 1-3 of the later issues.

While I may not be a "real player" some of those books did not realize their full potential as I was not involved in the bidding. Who knows, I could have bid up 2 dozen books or so, if I kept getting outbid.

 

Surely there were people with deeper pockets than mine with the same or similar morales.

Deeper pockets doesn`t mean you will spend more. I think some of us have realized that most off these comics were brought to new artificial price heights do to them getting major motion pictures made. There was a certain excitement that Batman,Spider-man,X-men and Avengers were getting big block buster movies done about them,and that excitement has now worn off. You can see it in the lower prices as examples.

[rodan57]

here's a screen shoot

 

 

 

What does it say if you click the green make an offer box?

 

When I do it for other books, it says "the owner is actively accepting bids"? That's what I REALLY want to know if it says for mine now!

 

I don't care about make an offer . It they want to try that it's fine by me. If it says I'm actively accepting offers when I'm not though, I have a BIG Aproblem with that that can't be explained away with some default setting. That would just be a flat out lie!

 

Actually the screen shot says that, "The owner of this item has indicated that they are entertaining offers on this item," at the bottom of the text block beneath the green button.

 

Did you register your ownership as it asks you? If seems to indicate that that makes you part of the "Make Offer to Owner program".

[sufunk]

here's a screen shoot

 

 

 

What does it say if you click the green make an offer box?

 

When I do it for other books, it says "the owner is actively accepting bids"? That's what I REALLY want to know if it says for mine now!

 

I don't care about make an offer . It they want to try that it's fine by me. If it says I'm actively accepting offers when I'm not though, I have a BIG Aproblem with that that can't be explained away with some default setting. That would just be a flat out lie!

 

Actually the screen shot says that, "The owner of this item has indicated that they are entertaining offers on this item," at the bottom of the text block beneath the green button.

 

Thats only because he isnt signed in and didnt click the "make an offer" button. Once both of those are done, it did say that i was actively accepting offers on this book

 

Apparently its the way the default setting works. Personally, i just dont like the wording of that for a default setting. I'd assume most people were like me and didnt even know this was happening so to have the default setting say "the owner is ACTIVELY accepting offers" when its nothing more than a default setting a lot of people dont even know about rubs me the wrong way. Not really a big deal but it is kind of annoying to come home and read a few pms about how im basically a liar because of the wording of their default setting

[shrunkenhead]

 

I think some of us have realized that most off these comics were brought to new artificial price heights do to them getting major motion pictures made. There was a certain excitement that Batman,Spider-man,X-men and Avengers were getting big block buster movies done about them,and that excitement has now worn off. You can see it in the lower prices as examples.

 

Surely there will be cyclical rises and falls, but your statement feels incorrect to me. We've been seeing blockbuster Batman movies for over 20 years.