Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[sufunk]

And yes I'm biased but I'm definitely not saying that because now in "invested"in it. Sure I'd like to see the value go up but odds are I will never sell that book no matter what so the value doesn't really matter to me. I wanted the book badly and that's what I was comfortable paying. If its worth less,even substantially, 5 years from now it honestly isn't going to bother me at all. I still think its a fairly key book based on the first appearance and the iconic cover so I can see the value going up even if more come to light. I certainly won't be surprised to see the value drop though either

 

Oops, I forgot you won that book when I posted. I definitely would have done what you did on that book as I always do on books I love, and as you suggested, there's a great possibility of growth, particularly given that it's a semi-key. Desirable keys with populations that aren't far too great are almost always decent buys, except perhaps when they were parts of warehouse finds (like FF 48).

 

No worries man (thumbs u

 

I just don't want anyone to think I'm saying what I am because I just plunked down a pile of cash for one. It may or may not end up a bad "investment". I wouldn't be surprised at all either way. To me though it was not an investment at all. Everyone who really knows me on here knows that Vision is my favorite character and I'm a psycho for Pedigrees. I've been trying to find a Pedigree 57 for a while now and have pm'd pretty much every dealer on here asking if they could track down the Curator 9.4 57 for me so it's no secret I've wanted this book BAD!

 

Honestly, I didn't think I had any chance at the book. My winning bid was my max. One more bid and I was out and I was POSITIVE it was going to go above that. I was literally shocked when the lady on the phone called out my bidder number meaning I had won it. It was a book I've dreamed of owning at a price I was comfortable paying so I really don't care about the investment potential of it. Hopefully, I'll never sell it and my son will be passing it to his son in 50 years so I'm not arguing for it trying to justify what I paid or convince anyone it's a good investment. I'm 100% positive investment wise I'd have been better off buying 10k worth of AF15s in whatever grade.

 

Hopefully years from now it will be worth more than I paid. Heck, we all want that for any book we buy. If it isn't though, it'll still be my personal grail of grails and honestly I won't be disappointed one iota

[Silver Surfer]

No date stamp on my copy.

[sufunk]

No date stamp on my copy.

 

 

You !!!

 

I'm surprised you couldn't find a Pedigree copy of that you damn Ped whore!!!

[arexcrooke]

Hi pot, im kettle

[Prince Namor]

To answer the original question with added benefit of the sales prices, yes, this is the top for the SA Marvel market.

 

In fact, for some books, Doug bought at the top and sold at a loss (see the sweet Avengers 57 that Sufunk picked up for a fraction of what Doug paid for it).

 

 

I really think that's a bad example. When Doug originally bought the RM 9.8 Avengers 57 there were two HUGE factors at play that aren't in play now. First, in 2009, the RM 57 was the ONLY 9.8 in existence. Couple that with there were at least two BSDs ducking it out to have the top registry set and that led to the unreal $28,000 sale.

 

Now, there are 6 9.8's out there and as far as I know, there's no one at the moment trying to put together a Avengers top registry set. There's a bunch of guys like me that like the book and want them but only at the right price. I don't HAVE to have any certain 9.6-9.8 Avengers to try and take over the #1 spot. I know I'm NEVER going to get top registry so there's no point in getting into a bidding war and paying two to three times what a books worth just to keep the #2 guy from getting it. As far as I can tell, right now there's no one collecting Avengers desperately trying to win top registry.

 

That and the fact 5 more 9.8's have come to light is why the 57 went for 1/3 the 2009 price IMO and doesn't really have any bearing on how strong or weak the SA market might be right now

 

It's not a bad example because Avengers 57 isn't an anomaly. The main reason this might be the top is that populations are rising significantly across all issues and all titles and devaluing most nosebleed prices paid in past years. I would be surprised if you ever see Avengers 57 in 9.8 going for $28K again, and once the populations rise even more, the total he got yesterday could easily look like a bubble price.

 

Well, I'd agree and disagree with that.

 

I definitely think you're right and there will probably never be another 28k sale unless it's FAR into the future.

 

I could see it still being worth a decent amount more than I paid in the future. Yeah, more 9.8's will probably come to light but I don't think it's going to be like Hulk181 and there'll be 50 9.8's. Maybe 10 or so max I would guess. That's still a lot but if he is in the next movie and there's 1 or 2 more really successful Avengers movies, yesterday's price could still be a decent bargain from the price 5 years from now

 

And yes I'm biased but I'm definitely not saying that because now in "invested"in it. Sure I'd like to see the value go up but odds are I will never sell that book no matter what so the value doesn't really matter to me. I wanted the book badly and that's what I was comfortable paying. If its worth less,even substantially, 5 years from now it honestly isn't going to bother me at all. I still think its a fairly key book based on the first appearance and the iconic cover so I can see the value going up even if more come to light. I certainly won't be surprised to see the value drop though either

 

Plus the Vision rules. [/quote

 

+1000

One of the coolest characters ever.

And one of the easiest to bring back if they wanted to.

[sufunk]

Hi pot, im kettle

 

Oh trust me! As bad as I am, peter puts me to shame on the Pedigree front!

 

At least I just have ONE Pedigree of each issue!

[arexcrooke]

Hi pot, im kettle

 

Oh trust me! As bad as I am, peter puts me to shame on the Pedigree front!

 

At least I just have ONE Pedigree of each issue!

I am well aware of his proclivities

[sufunk]

Hi pot, im kettle

 

Oh trust me! As bad as I am, peter puts me to shame on the Pedigree front!

 

At least I just have ONE Pedigree of each issue!

I am well aware of his proclivities

 

I'd pay money for the privilege of going to his house and looking thru his Pedigrees!

 

A couple times, we've had little "Pedigree battles" in the Ped threads in the SA and BA forums where we'd be posting scans of our Peds one after another trying to top each other. Every damn time though, I'd run thru all my semi valuable ones and be onto posting like $50-100 books. Peter would still be posting like freaking $500-1000 Peds with no end in sight!

 

I don't know if anyone keeps track or actually knows who has the most Pedigree books but he HAS to be VERY close to the top! In the Pedigree world I'm like a contender for the middleweight title and he's like the undefeated undisputed heavyweight champ!

[arexcrooke]

Ask him about his TTA 98 Big Apple copy he had

[sufunk]

Ask him about his TTA 98 Big Apple copy he had

 

Or the Curator Avengers 57

[delekkerste]

It's more than just Doug not bidding. At the time of the Avengers craze, there were at least 4 big guns literally competing with each other (2 were forum members, one was a best selling author and one was Doug) for the best copy in a very short period of time. Money was not really a problem for them and each wanted the best at the time.

 

Books that were generally $400-800 books in 9.8 were fetching $3000-4000 just 3 years ago.

 

That's not a market top. That's an anomaly.

 

From what I've seen (and I realize there are exceptions) most of the books have just fallen down to what might be considered a reasonable number - meaning middle of the road values.

 

I could be wrong, but that is just my perception.

 

What you have described is a market top, plain and simple. Plenty of market tops across various asset classes have been formed in a similar fashion.

[gregreece]

I'm VERY intested to see how many of these books went to collectors like me as keepers and how many will be on dealers websites for outrageous prices in a month

 

There were a TON of Avengers that "only" went for $1000-1500 that were bought by Doug in bidding wars in 2007-2009 for like $3500-4500. I would bet that a LOT of those will very soon be on dealers sites for $2500-3000. I could be wrong but if I'm not, those dealers are going to be waiting a LONG time before ANYONE even considers buying them at the prices they'll have them listed for. I can't wait to see how many actually were bought by dealers but again, I have a sneaking suspicion that a good number of at least the Avengers ended up in dealers hands.

 

Can't speak for other dealers but I know I don't make a living catching falling knives. Stay with the keys and/or (hopefully and) books that present really well for the grade.

[sufunk]

I'm VERY intested to see how many of these books went to collectors like me as keepers and how many will be on dealers websites for outrageous prices in a month

 

There were a TON of Avengers that "only" went for $1000-1500 that were bought by Doug in bidding wars in 2007-2009 for like $3500-4500. I would bet that a LOT of those will very soon be on dealers sites for $2500-3000. I could be wrong but if I'm not, those dealers are going to be waiting a LONG time before ANYONE even considers buying them at the prices they'll have them listed for. I can't wait to see how many actually were bought by dealers but again, I have a sneaking suspicion that a good number of at least the Avengers ended up in dealers hands.

 

Can't speak for other dealers but I know I don't make a living catching falling knives. Stay with the keys and/or (hopefully and) books that present really well for the grade.

 

I agree. For the most part, I don't see many dealers make a killing selling Pedigrees they buy at public auction. I could be wrong but based on how the live bidding was going, I got the feeling that 1person won like 20-25 of the books between like 20-70. For some reason, I just have the feeling it was a dealer. I could be completely wrong and its a collector, that's why I'm very interested in seeing if they show up for sale anytime soon.

[tth2]

But I alerted immigration and homeland security, just in case Tim tries to sneak back into the country.

The procedures are always much more relaxed for those of us who fly in on private jets.

[tth2]

To answer the original question with added benefit of the sales prices, yes, this is the top for the SA Marvel market.

 

In fact, for some books, Doug bought at the top and sold at a loss (see the sweet Avengers 57 that Sufunk picked up for a fraction of what Doug paid for it).

 

 

I really think that's a bad example. When Doug originally bought the RM 9.8 Avengers 57 there were two HUGE factors at play that aren't in play now. First, in 2009, the RM 57 was the ONLY 9.8 in existence. Couple that with there were at least two BSDs ducking it out to have the top registry set and that led to the unreal $28,000 sale.

 

Now, there are 6 9.8's out there

It`s rather ironic that Doug bid books up aggressively on perceived scarcity when he of all people knew how easy it was to manufacture grades and/or pressure CGC into destroying any perceptions of scarcity.

[tth2]

It's more than just Doug not bidding. At the time of the Avengers craze, there were at least 4 big guns literally competing with each other (2 were forum members, one was a best selling author and one was Doug) for the best copy in a very short period of time. Money was not really a problem for them and each wanted the best at the time.

 

Books that were generally $400-800 books in 9.8 were fetching $3000-4000 just 3 years ago.

 

That's not a market top. That's an anomaly.

 

From what I've seen (and I realize there are exceptions) most of the books have just fallen down to what might be considered a reasonable number - meaning middle of the road values.

 

I could be wrong, but that is just my perception.

 

What you have described is a market top, plain and simple. Plenty of market tops across various asset classes have been formed in a similar fashion.

Roy is a dealer.

 

So of course he`s spinning this. It wouldn`t be a real market top if you didn`t have self-interested talking heads trotting out dozens of rationalizations as to why it`s not a market top.

[tth2]

I'm VERY intested to see how many of these books went to collectors like me as keepers and how many will be on dealers websites for outrageous prices in a month

 

There were a TON of Avengers that "only" went for $1000-1500 that were bought by Doug in bidding wars in 2007-2009 for like $3500-4500. I would bet that a LOT of those will very soon be on dealers sites for $2500-3000. I could be wrong but if I'm not, those dealers are going to be waiting a LONG time before ANYONE even considers buying them at the prices they'll have them listed for. I can't wait to see how many actually were bought by dealers but again, I have a sneaking suspicion that a good number of at least the Avengers ended up in dealers hands.

Sufunk, congratulations on your pick-up. It reminded me of a conversation we had in the Silver forum back on July 7:

 

2 of the ones i want are ones that i thought 100% i would win when they were up for auction in the last year with completely over the top bids. Both of them i was SHOCKED that someone actually outbid me on them and couldn't for the life of me figure who it could be. I should have known it was freaking Doug blowing me out of the water!!!

Well, now you're going to get a great opportunity to pick up some of these books at a lower price than you were willing to pay the first time around. My guess is that Doug's going to take a bath on some of his more recent acquisitions, unless there is suddenly some mysterious bidding to prop up his prices.

 

It would actually be very interesting to see what the sale prices were for a lot of the more recently acquired books, particularly the Rocky Mountains and Twin Cities books, so we can compare to what the sales price will be here.

[Gotham Kid]

I could be wrong but based on how the live bidding was going, I got the feeling that 1person won like 20-25 of the books between like 20-70. For some reason, I just have the feeling it was a dealer. I could be completely wrong and its a collector, that's why I'm very interested in seeing if they show up for sale anytime soon.

 

It has begun

[Gotham Kid]

BTW, I assume Doug will remember to remove his books from the registry when he's finished counting his millions.

[COI]

I could be wrong but based on how the live bidding was going, I got the feeling that 1person won like 20-25 of the books between like 20-70. For some reason, I just have the feeling it was a dealer. I could be completely wrong and its a collector, that's why I'm very interested in seeing if they show up for sale anytime soon.

 

It has begun

 

You mean some people buy books only for a quick flip? How unexpected.

 

PCs are going to lose some of their mystique going forward, as we watch people pass them around like hot potatoes.