Fellow Boardies Help, Is my ASM 1 Restored?

[fantastic_four]

If it has had the work done, that the more helpful guys listed (ie reinforcement along the right hand edge), I would eat my hat if this wasn't deemed professional restoration, and would similarly be shocked if this was again deemed 'extensive' restoration. I don't know how CGC make the decisions, but both the collector and dealer in me finds it very difficult to see how this is 'extensive'.

I also don't think its been hacked/trimmed or whatever - take a close look at that 9.0 unrestored CGC copy that wsa posted (look at it blown up), and that edge also looks uneven to me - and thats a real high end copy!

As far as I know my history, a lot (if not most) books from that early era suffered from blunt edge guiloteen (excuse incorrcet spelling) effect - its well documented, and a lot of Marvels have chipping (ragged right hand edge) as a result.

With the benefit of the more useful info posted across the forum, I would say that the right hand edge has been reinforced to some extent. I can't see how anything has been added in, as there is no join I could see, but maybe something has been lacquered on top (a guess, I genuinly don't know what they do to achieve this).

I don't think the cover has been washed, as some jerk said. I will bring you in my copy from home, which has the same slight smudging effect of some text inside - almost in the same place as yours (and you can also see where the chipping is, its in the same place on mine, put without being restored, so mine has a ragged edge).

 

The "jerk" who said the cover has been cleaned (Ze-Man) has spent years professionally restoring comics and presented his opinion in a neutral, objective manner, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his opinion. My understanding of paper reinforcement is that a layer is added to existing paper to keep paper from tearing, so there are two reasons the right edge on this book wouldn't be reinforced--you wouldn't see reinforcement so clearly from both sides of the paper, and it's mostly done to the spine to prevent a split, not to a reading edge that isn't likely to split. The ragged edges you refer to is most commonly called "Marvel Chipping," but it's usually present on only the right side--not the corners and the bottom edge--so the piece replacement in those areas would probably be due to damage from mishandling. And finally, if all of the discolored areas we can see in the scan are indeed piece replacement, then there's absolutely no doubt that CGC would describe the restoration as "extensive." For an example of what they consider "moderate", refer back to the restored copy of a Fantastic Four #3 I posted earlier--the piece replacements that they considered "moderate" are, as far as I can tell, limited to very small pieces in just the upper left and lower left corners--here's a much bigger scan of that FF 3 that shows it more clearly. I don't believe that CGC ever calls piece replacement anything less than "moderate," and since on the Spidey 1 in question there are discolorations along many inches of the sides and corners, I can't imagine them describing that as anything but "extensive". They may indeed describe it as "professional" though--I can't see any work that is clearly amateur based upon what's visible in the scan.

 

Half of the vitriol on the thread was caused most unfortunately by Symbiotic's misleading statement that the seller said he was selling the book "as is".

[VintageComics]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

[Kevin.J]

As a pure inverstment - no doubt a big gamble. As a very very nice looking book to own - you decide.

I certainly don't think its a worthless bit of , and personally feel the price I put on it was fair, but if, after you haven given it proper (and personal) thought - not just listening to a few abusive knee-jerkers - you are unhappy, I will of course be happy to take the book back, and refund you.

 

I am glad you have a chance of a refund.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong, whether he is a good guy or not.

My advice is to take the money back and run, do not let him talk you into keeping this book, you can definitely get better for the money.

Walk away from this and count yourself lucky, the guys on here know there stuff, some of them can come on heavy but they all have your best interests at heart and dont want to see anyone ripped off.

Good luck tomorrow.

[Mark 1]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

[Anfield Fox]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

 

He posted bigger scans after

 

But yeah due to amount of resto i find it hard to grade.

[DiceX]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

 

In his other thread it sounded like he bought it from a local store, but then I don't believe any of it anyway.

I think the boards are getting the pork sword and they don't know it yet.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Yea, the book needs to be returned--it's not likely to be worth a third of the price paid.

 

Here's my own equivalent to the Spidey 1 in this thread--it's the book that made me as interested in grading, restoration, and restoration detection as I am today. I bought it for Overstreet NM back in 2000 from a small dealer's web site. At the time, I wasn't thinking much about restoration and was just excited to buy key Marvels as Symbiotic is, wishing that this book were something that it just wasn't in reality--which is overgraded at NM when it's really a VF and restored due to trimming along the top and right edges (which is fairly evident just via the scan once you know what the edges of Marvels should look like). Costly mistakes are typically what cause collectors to see the value of CGC and begin to become interested in restoration detection.

 

[VintageComics]

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

 

I've never bought a book from him but he has been vocal about disliking CGC and has been allegedly known to sell restored books as unrestored.

 

I didn't see the large scans until now, so yeah - 7.0 - 7.5 might be a bit closer as far as grade range.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

But yeah due to amount of resto i find it hard to grade.

 

Jive said something similar to this, but I don't understand it. Why wouldn't you grade the book as it looks with the restoration in place?

[Comicopolis]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

 

In his other thread it sounded like he bought it from a local store, but then I don't believe any of it anyway.

I think the boards are getting the pork sword and they don't know it yet.

 

 

I think some people know it

[hulksmashdave]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

 

In his other thread it sounded like he bought it from a local store, but then I don't believe any of it anyway.

I think the boards are getting the pork sword and they don't know it yet.

 

 

I think some people know it

 

PrechterFool knows it.

[Anfield Fox]

But yeah due to amount of resto i find it hard to grade.

 

Jive said something similar to this, but I don't understand it. Why wouldn't you grade the book as it looks with the restoration in place?

 

No, you're right you can't accuratly grade it. I'm just saying though that lets imagine the seller didn't know it was restored he had to put a grade on it anyway right? And no way would that grade be VF/NM. In the other thread he said a chance of NM-.

 

I thought it might be a FN- but i retract that now because it's impossible to grade for me personally with the state it's in, other than to say it's NOT a VF/NM or close to it.

[Mark 1]

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

 

I've never bought a book from him but he has been vocal about disliking CGC and has been allegedly known to sell restored books as unrestored.

 

I didn't see the large scans until now, so yeah - 7.0 - 7.5 might be a bit closer as far as grade range.

 

 

Thanks regarding Greg White. (thumbs u

[Mark 1]

I don't think it's impossible to grade it with the restoration it has. CGC does it everyday.

 

 

[gaz973]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

 

In his other thread it sounded like he bought it from a local store, but then I don't believe any of it anyway.

I think the boards are getting the pork sword and they don't know it yet.

 

 

I think some people know it

Yup, some of us pay attention to things that have gone before.

[fantastic_four]

What's making you guys think the entire story is bogus?

[Joe Kim]

I'm going to talk to the dealer tomorrow, I'll update you on what happens. I'd like to leave it at that if possible for now...

[Anfield Fox]

I don't think it's impossible to grade it with the restoration it has. CGC does it everyday.

 

 

You missed the important part where i said "me".

 

+ CGC has the book in hand. For a restored book you really need to hold it and use a MG and light. You can't rely on scans.

[DiceX]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

 

In his other thread it sounded like he bought it from a local store, but then I don't believe any of it anyway.

I think the boards are getting the pork sword and they don't know it yet.

 

 

I think some people know it

Yup, some of us pay attention to things that have gone before.

 

And I'm usually the one to get scolded for being the voice of apathy.

 

 

[VintageComics]

It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell what grade the book is from the scan, especially with those small pics. It could look like an 8.0 or a 4.0 in hand.

 

The restoration is clearly visible from a distance though.

 

Is the dealer Greg White?

 

I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a UK transaction.

 

 

Roy, did you see the giant scan of the book? It's very easy to see the resto and the potential grade of the book.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5805890#Post5805890

 

Is Greg White known to sell restored books without disclosure? He is going to be at a con this weekend and if that's the case...I will steer clear of his stuff.

 

Thanks

 

In his other thread it sounded like he bought it from a local store, but then I don't believe any of it anyway.

I think the boards are getting the pork sword and they don't know it yet.

 

 

I don't know the whole story either but I am getting kind of a funny feeling about this whole thing.

 

2 days ago I offered a book via PM in reply to a WTB post by symbiotic. He's the "1st buyer" in this story. He read the PM but did not reply.

 

A few hours later I get an email/offer on the same book (not through the boards) from someone I will call "2nd buyer". I replied, we went back and forth for nearly 2 days and nothing happened. After going back and forth for nearly 2 days he simply asked for a Paypal invoice and broke contact.

 

In the mean time I PM symbiotic and ask if he's still interested as he hasn't said boo to me (still no PM reply) and I have another buyer interested in the same book. I even ask him if he's the email buyer. He doesn't reply to the question but he tells me he's going to think about the book and let me know.

 

The next day (yesterday) I get an email stating that they (the 2nd buyer) did not get the Paypal invoice and asked me to resend so that they could follow up by that late morning or early afternoon.

 

Well, lo and behold, the afternoon rolls around with nary a reply. The book happens to sell to another (3rd) buyer who I know is a serious buyer, and since I had no reply from the (2nd) email buyer (and symbiotic wasn't in a hurry to pull the trigger) I simply notified the 2nd buyer politely via email that the book has sold and is no longer available.

 

This is where it gets strange: Just an hour or two later (after I send the notification email that the book has sold) symbiotic removes himself from the PM without ever letting me know he's not interested in the book any more. I hadn't told him the book sold privately.

 

Now I don't care a bit and am not trying to make trouble but how did symbiotic know the book was sold if I didn't tell him....and why was the email buyer from Virginia?

 

 

It's just got strange written all over it.

 

Or is it just me?