Fellow Boardies Help, Is my ASM 1 Restored?

[shrunkenhead]

Welcome to the board, and I hope you have a change of heart and decide to stick around.

I'm sorry that you're introduction here was so,er, dramatic, but you've noticed that the tide began to turn in your favor well before you posted--that, I believe, indicates that the crowd is here not just a pack of jerks. (I said "not just." )

 

You've conceded that you don't know a lot about resto. But why, I'm wondering, wouldn't you be interested to stick around the board and learn a little? Even if high-end is 1% of your stock, that could still be a substantial amount of money. I don't think anyone wants to punish you for not knowing about resto. And a little more knowledge could only be helpful, no?

 

It seems to me that your greatest issue is with the original buyer, not the board community. Like I said, the buyer's BS was called out fairly quickly. The high-end market has witnessed some pretty wild tales of corruption and dirty-dealing, so it seems that the OP crafted his story for a readily sympathetic audience.

 

Nobody here wants to burn an honest comic dealer. (thumbs u

[DiceX]

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT...

 

SOME HISTORY

I am a dealer of some 30 years, and own and run a very sucessful comic shop. I have probably sold over half million comics in my time (thats units, not dollars/pounds), and have handled and graded more books than many of you have even seen. However, I am not a Silver age specialist, and high

end books make up less than 1% of my sales. That is not to say I don't see, buy and sell high end books in the course of my business - they naturally come in as part of large collection purchases - they are just not a main part of my business. Much to the amazement of some of the posters here (why I don't know), I have over the years, sold multiple copies of bokks such as ASM 1 , Amazing Fantasy 15, Hulk 1-6, Tales of Suspense 39, X-Men 1, Avengers 1 etc etc etc. Nothing slabbed, Nothing knowingly restored. Its part of selling comics, but not a field I specialise in.

I don't think I have seen more than a handful of restored books in my entire trading and collecting life - and they mainly consisted of obvious trim (where the comic was narrower than it should be), and bad colour fills, with felt tip pen, or the equivalent - all of which were rejected and not purchased. I have never had anything restored myself, and whilst I obviously am aware of restoration, have no knowledge of how its done, and what it looks like when professionally done. I'm fairly sure I could spot where work had obviously been done to a book, but couldn't tell you how or to what extent. I don't really buy much old stock these days, as the market is so much smaller than it was, but when I did, I either bought from reputable wholesalers, or private collectors, and the prospect of restoration never really cropped up. Restoration may be common place in the worlds the contributors to these boards live in, but is not in day-to-day comic shop life. I don't deal in slabbed books, and have only ever handled a few oddments, which came in as part of a large collection (I have never put them up for sale - they are modern and there's nothing special there).

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #1

I have had a copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1 for a little while, and on the surface, its the best looking copy I have ever seen (over the years I have sold 3 previous copies in VG-FN grades, and own another copy in FN/VFN myself). The only thing about this copy was that it looked to me like it had work done to it, but I couldn't explain what. The biggest giveaway were a couple of dark patches which were visible only when the book was held up to the light, down the right hand open edge, but otherwise were not immediately apparent, plus some inconsistent colour/gloss on the cover surface, along that edge too. I was fairly sure this was the result of restoration work, but could not fathom out what was done or how, as I do not have any expertise in this field. There is certainly no sign of any joins or seals to my untrained eye. I certainly didn't recognise these as colour touches, as has been pointed out. Now that it has been explained, and with the benefit of the blown up scan, they are obvious, but if you have not seen this type of work before, trust me they are not.

Whatever had been done (and without the knowledge of all that has been explained in this forum), it looked (and still does look) a damn fine book, with very nice, clean and bright interiors, but I did recognise that is was pretty certainly not untouched.

 

THE COLLECTOR

A month or so ago, a young guy came into the shop and expressed interest in our Silver Age stock. It was actually good timing, as we had just purchased a really nice run of Fantastic Four from the early 20's on, plus some other nice pieces. He spent quite a bit of money over the next week or 2, and expressed interest in a number of wants he had. As I am now of an age where I am considering downsizing my personal collection, I asked if he wanted to see some bits and pieces from my own collection, which I was no longer that attached to, and he bought a fair bit, including some very nice grade 'modern' keys (all unslabbed - gasp, horror). As we were were on a roll, and he was keen to buy key SpiderMan's ('his favourite'), I offered to bring in the ASM 1 (see above) to show him. This was not (as has been mis-told - the first of many inaccuracies posted here), put across as a book from my collection, but was on open sale in the shop (only the actual copy was kept securely off premises, for security reasons (we don't generally hold this type of value book in store, but display photocopied covers). I brought in the book, and in the privacy of my office (where he could take his time and examine to his hearts content), I explained my reservations about the book, that it appeared to have been restored, that it looked to have been professionally done, but that I couldn't explain what had been done, as I didn't know myself. I did show him in detail, the dark shadows, and the colour inconsistencies down the edge, and said thats about the limit of my knowledge. I also said that I had priced the book at what I considered to be below Overstreet value for the grade it appeared to be in (which I ventured VFN), because of the apparent restoration work. When the collector saw the book he pretty much wanted it there and then, and was ready to lay down his deposit. I said that it was a lot of money to shell out, and that whilst it was a really nice looking book, I obviously could not vouch for what work had been done to cause the problem areas I had highlighted, and the last thing I wanted was someone to spend all that money, go send it off to get slabbed, and then come back and complain that they got a mauve label. I said that what ever the collector wanted to do, I would hold the book for him for 7 days, to give him a chance to make a considered decision, and that he could come back at any time to re-view the book. To cut a long story a little bit shorter, the collector paid a deposit a few days later (after having viewed the book once or twice more - and (without my knowledge then) - consulted these boards for advice - and we agreed time payments.

 

In response to my reservations about having the book come back to me with a complaint about a mauve label, the collector said he wanted the book for himself, it was a great looking item, that he understood about the risks of restoration, and that he would neither hold me to blame, nor bring the

book back, complaining that it had been restored. We joked that if he found out he had a completely unrestored book, it would no doubt be worth well above my asking price, and the drinks were on him. Ii is true that I said that if he didn't buy it, I would be taking the book off sale, and would consider submitting the book to CGC myself (a first for me), to find out what it actually would grade up as. This wasn't mean't as a sales push, just that I was getting fed up with this £6000 book being gawped at my everyone who came in the shop (we don't tend to get many customers in with that sort of money to blow on a book these days).

 

For the record, I never suggested a grade above VFN (and didn't even say the book was in VFN, as I couldn't really grade it with the reservations I had, just that it had that appearance) - the higher grades posted on the boards by the collector were his own invention, we never 'examined the book with a magnifying glass'. I also never said the book was sold 'as is'. It was sold with full disclosure of what I knew - the only 'as is' aspect being, that its being sold as you see it, which is as I see it, having explained all I can about it. I never said 'no refunds', although I didn't expect to be having to refund, when I had made full disclosure - the collector himseld said to me 'don't worry, I won't be bringing it back, even if it comes back as restored'.

 

Other untruths that have been posted are about a Hulk #1 which I sold a few years back in nice grade, the relevance being it was the most expensive single book I had sold to date, and this ASM #1 would pip that. Quite where this story about the purchaser of that copy slabbing the book and selling for a healthy profit came from I don't know. I told the collector that the Hulk had been purchased as a gift for an actor (no names thank you, so please don't ask), by his production company.

 

There are quite a few more untruths that have been posted by the collector about this transaction. He seems like a nice lad, and I have given him the benefit of the doubt that he mean't no harm, but maybe got a bit carried away in a walter mitty fantasy fashion. Some things may have been said to try and salvage the abuse I was later indirectly receiving on the boards, by inventing stories to counter some of the allegations that were surfacing. I am sure he mean't me no harm, and did his best to defend my honour, but I was by now being totally and rudely savaged by people who haven't a clue about my sales history, reputation or honorability.

 

I was not a member of these boards before, and they are not something I wish to follow - its not an area of interest to me as previoulsy stated, but once the collector had pointed me in this direction, having received the slating about the book, and wanting my reaction, I started to see red. I really did not want to get into a great debate about this trade, and could only see myself being put upon, whatever I said (there are always some who take pleasure in showing what knows all they are by shouting people down), so held off joining in the affray, and instead, wrote the collector the one off email he posted on here. I do regret calling this kenny guy a jerk, as I had no idea who was, and he seems to know his stuff, but you have to understand that having been drawn into this bloodfest, I was beginning to see this entire forum as one big pack of jerks (once you take it all in, answer truthfully, can you blame me?).

 

When I saw what was going on, digested the restoration information on offer, and having asked the collector to come in and talk it over face to face, I had no hesitation in offering him his money back, which I duly paid promptly.

 

Maybe the book isn't worth £6000. Only time will tell (I have yet to decide on submission, as the experience of this board has left a very sour taste about CGC and the people that deal in them), but over pricing a book is not a crime. It certainly hasn't been done intentionally. I stand by this book as a really nice looking book, that needs further investigation as to its market worth.

 

As for this forum, some of you guys really need to think before you speak. What was posted about me was highly abusive, completely inaccurate, and has troubled me all week. I really wasn't going to post at all, and have only signed up using a temporary name, as I really needed to get this off my chest. I am thankful for the one or two posters (Fantastic Four I think was one), who started to question some of the BS that was being posted. A lot of the facts were there early on if you just dug around all the collectors postings for them. I wasn't privy to all this prior to him sending me the link once he hadn't got the goldmine he thought he had! The cries of 'who is this LCS' - he needs to be disgraced, followed by the cries of 'who is this LCS', you should post his name now that he has given you a refund, as it will help his reputation, are laughable. I have nothing to prove. I do not need my reputation besmirched, nor given a rubber stamp of approval, by people who have called me a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed amongst other abuses. Corny as it is to finish on, in this case 'NUFF SAID.

 

So who are you? You could have just given this information and saved yourself a lot of typing.

 

I thought you were from England, mate.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT...

 

SOME HISTORY

I am a dealer of some 30 years, and own and run a very sucessful comic shop. I have probably sold over half million comics in my time (thats units, not dollars/pounds), and have handled and graded more books than many of you have even seen. However, I am not a Silver age specialist, and high

end books make up less than 1% of my sales. That is not to say I don't see, buy and sell high end books in the course of my business - they naturally come in as part of large collection purchases - they are just not a main part of my business. Much to the amazement of some of the posters here (why I don't know), I have over the years, sold multiple copies of bokks such as ASM 1 , Amazing Fantasy 15, Hulk 1-6, Tales of Suspense 39, X-Men 1, Avengers 1 etc etc etc. Nothing slabbed, Nothing knowingly restored. Its part of selling comics, but not a field I specialise in.

I don't think I have seen more than a handful of restored books in my entire trading and collecting life - and they mainly consisted of obvious trim (where the comic was narrower than it should be), and bad colour fills, with felt tip pen, or the equivalent - all of which were rejected and not purchased. I have never had anything restored myself, and whilst I obviously am aware of restoration, have no knowledge of how its done, and what it looks like when professionally done. I'm fairly sure I could spot where work had obviously been done to a book, but couldn't tell you how or to what extent. I don't really buy much old stock these days, as the market is so much smaller than it was, but when I did, I either bought from reputable wholesalers, or private collectors, and the prospect of restoration never really cropped up. Restoration may be common place in the worlds the contributors to these boards live in, but is not in day-to-day comic shop life. I don't deal in slabbed books, and have only ever handled a few oddments, which came in as part of a large collection (I have never put them up for sale - they are modern and there's nothing special there).

 

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #1

I have had a copy of Amazing Spider-Man #1 for a little while, and on the surface, its the best looking copy I have ever seen (over the years I have sold 3 previous copies in VG-FN grades, and own another copy in FN/VFN myself). The only thing about this copy was that it looked to me like it had work done to it, but I couldn't explain what. The biggest giveaway were a couple of dark patches which were visible only when the book was held up to the light, down the right hand open edge, but otherwise were not immediately apparent, plus some inconsistent colour/gloss on the cover surface, along that edge too. I was fairly sure this was the result of restoration work, but could not fathom out what was done or how, as I do not have any expertise in this field. There is certainly no sign of any joins or seals to my untrained eye. I certainly didn't recognise these as colour touches, as has been pointed out. Now that it has been explained, and with the benefit of the blown up scan, they are obvious, but if you have not seen this type of work before, trust me they are not.

Whatever had been done (and without the knowledge of all that has been explained in this forum), it looked (and still does look) a damn fine book, with very nice, clean and bright interiors, but I did recognise that is was pretty certainly not untouched.

 

THE COLLECTOR

A month or so ago, a young guy came into the shop and expressed interest in our Silver Age stock. It was actually good timing, as we had just purchased a really nice run of Fantastic Four from the early 20's on, plus some other nice pieces. He spent quite a bit of money over the next week or 2, and expressed interest in a number of wants he had. As I am now of an age where I am considering downsizing my personal collection, I asked if he wanted to see some bits and pieces from my own collection, which I was no longer that attached to, and he bought a fair bit, including some very nice grade 'modern' keys (all unslabbed - gasp, horror). As we were were on a roll, and he was keen to buy key SpiderMan's ('his favourite'), I offered to bring in the ASM 1 (see above) to show him. This was not (as has been mis-told - the first of many inaccuracies posted here), put across as a book from my collection, but was on open sale in the shop (only the actual copy was kept securely off premises, for security reasons (we don't generally hold this type of value book in store, but display photocopied covers). I brought in the book, and in the privacy of my office (where he could take his time and examine to his hearts content), I explained my reservations about the book, that it appeared to have been restored, that it looked to have been professionally done, but that I couldn't explain what had been done, as I didn't know myself. I did show him in detail, the dark shadows, and the colour inconsistencies down the edge, and said thats about the limit of my knowledge. I also said that I had priced the book at what I considered to be below Overstreet value for the grade it appeared to be in (which I ventured VFN), because of the apparent restoration work. When the collector saw the book he pretty much wanted it there and then, and was ready to lay down his deposit. I said that it was a lot of money to shell out, and that whilst it was a really nice looking book, I obviously could not vouch for what work had been done to cause the problem areas I had highlighted, and the last thing I wanted was someone to spend all that money, go send it off to get slabbed, and then come back and complain that they got a mauve label. I said that what ever the collector wanted to do, I would hold the book for him for 7 days, to give him a chance to make a considered decision, and that he could come back at any time to re-view the book. To cut a long story a little bit shorter, the collector paid a deposit a few days later (after having viewed the book once or twice more - and (without my knowledge then) - consulted these boards for advice - and we agreed time payments.

 

In response to my reservations about having the book come back to me with a complaint about a mauve label, the collector said he wanted the book for himself, it was a great looking item, that he understood about the risks of restoration, and that he would neither hold me to blame, nor bring the

book back, complaining that it had been restored. We joked that if he found out he had a completely unrestored book, it would no doubt be worth well above my asking price, and the drinks were on him. Ii is true that I said that if he didn't buy it, I would be taking the book off sale, and would consider submitting the book to CGC myself (a first for me), to find out what it actually would grade up as. This wasn't mean't as a sales push, just that I was getting fed up with this £6000 book being gawped at my everyone who came in the shop (we don't tend to get many customers in with that sort of money to blow on a book these days).

 

For the record, I never suggested a grade above VFN (and didn't even say the book was in VFN, as I couldn't really grade it with the reservations I had, just that it had that appearance) - the higher grades posted on the boards by the collector were his own invention, we never 'examined the book with a magnifying glass'. I also never said the book was sold 'as is'. It was sold with full disclosure of what I knew - the only 'as is' aspect being, that its being sold as you see it, which is as I see it, having explained all I can about it. I never said 'no refunds', although I didn't expect to be having to refund, when I had made full disclosure - the collector himseld said to me 'don't worry, I won't be bringing it back, even if it comes back as restored'.

 

Other untruths that have been posted are about a Hulk #1 which I sold a few years back in nice grade, the relevance being it was the most expensive single book I had sold to date, and this ASM #1 would pip that. Quite where this story about the purchaser of that copy slabbing the book and selling for a healthy profit came from I don't know. I told the collector that the Hulk had been purchased as a gift for an actor (no names thank you, so please don't ask), by his production company.

 

There are quite a few more untruths that have been posted by the collector about this transaction. He seems like a nice lad, and I have given him the benefit of the doubt that he mean't no harm, but maybe got a bit carried away in a walter mitty fantasy fashion. Some things may have been said to try and salvage the abuse I was later indirectly receiving on the boards, by inventing stories to counter some of the allegations that were surfacing. I am sure he mean't me no harm, and did his best to defend my honour, but I was by now being totally and rudely savaged by people who haven't a clue about my sales history, reputation or honorability.

 

I was not a member of these boards before, and they are not something I wish to follow - its not an area of interest to me as previoulsy stated, but once the collector had pointed me in this direction, having received the slating about the book, and wanting my reaction, I started to see red. I really did not want to get into a great debate about this trade, and could only see myself being put upon, whatever I said (there are always some who take pleasure in showing what knows all they are by shouting people down), so held off joining in the affray, and instead, wrote the collector the one off email he posted on here. I do regret calling this kenny guy a jerk, as I had no idea who was, and he seems to know his stuff, but you have to understand that having been drawn into this bloodfest, I was beginning to see this entire forum as one big pack of jerks (once you take it all in, answer truthfully, can you blame me?).

 

When I saw what was going on, digested the restoration information on offer, and having asked the collector to come in and talk it over face to face, I had no hesitation in offering him his money back, which I duly paid promptly.

 

Maybe the book isn't worth £6000. Only time will tell (I have yet to decide on submission, as the experience of this board has left a very sour taste about CGC and the people that deal in them), but over pricing a book is not a crime. It certainly hasn't been done intentionally. I stand by this book as a really nice looking book, that needs further investigation as to its market worth.

 

As for this forum, some of you guys really need to think before you speak. What was posted about me was highly abusive, completely inaccurate, and has troubled me all week. I really wasn't going to post at all, and have only signed up using a temporary name, as I really needed to get this off my chest. I am thankful for the one or two posters (Fantastic Four I think was one), who started to question some of the BS that was being posted. A lot of the facts were there early on if you just dug around all the collectors postings for them. I wasn't privy to all this prior to him sending me the link once he hadn't got the goldmine he thought he had! The cries of 'who is this LCS' - he needs to be disgraced, followed by the cries of 'who is this LCS', you should post his name now that he has given you a refund, as it will help his reputation, are laughable. I have nothing to prove. I do not need my reputation besmirched, nor given a rubber stamp of approval, by people who have called me a person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed amongst other abuses. Corny as it is to finish on, in this case 'NUFF SAID.

 

[DrWatson]

So who are you? You could have just given this information and saved yourself a lot of typing.

 

I thought you were from England, mate.

Shill, shill, bo-bill,

Banana-fana fo-fill

Mee-Mi-mo-mill

Shill!

[Sal]

Is there a store name in there anywhere? I ain't reading all that

[DrWatson]

Is there a store name in there anywhere? I ain't reading all that

Heavens no. Do you think we're dealing with an amateur?

[DiceX]

Is there a store name in there anywhere? I ain't reading all that

Heavens no. Do you think we're dealing with an amateur?

 

Not enough random u's or Limey words in there for me to buy it.

Smells like teen shillit.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Plus, I'm waiting for the Flaming_Telepath opinion.

 

[sufunk]

Is there a store name in there anywhere? I ain't reading all that

Heavens no. Do you think we're dealing with an amateur?

 

Not enough random u's or Limey words in there for me to buy it.

Smells like teen shillit.

 

 

+1

 

Like I said before, his 1st email didn't sound British in the least!

 

This one was no better. There's no possible way an angry lifetime Brit wrote that post (thumbs u

[DiceX]

Plus, I'm waiting for the Flaming_Telepath opinion.

 

 

If one of the boardies from across the pond pipe up and say "Oh, that's old so-and-so. A smarmy gent that's always peddling his wares hither and about" I would believe it.

Until then I'm betting on the shill.

 

 

[sufunk]

Plus, I'm waiting for the Flaming_Telepath opinion.

 

 

If one of the boardies from across the pond pipe up and say "Oh, that's old so-and-so. A smarmy gent that's always peddling his wares hither and about" I would believe it.

Until then I'm betting on the shill.

 

 

I've asked like 5 times that he pm FT or gaz or someone that can confirm him but of course that's been ignored each time

[Sal]

I dunno if it's a shill, it doesn't really matter anyways, I'm just curious why he didn't mention his store. He gave the guy a full refund and there doesn't seem to be any hard feelings about the exchange, even.

 

[gyro-1]

welcome to the boards JosephS

There is a 100% chance some board members have bought from you over the years

Will be nice to here from them about this and give you a good review ?

 

[Beige]

Ive read all this and the one thing no-ones picked up on is the use of the 'pound-sign' in the store-owners response.

It had to come from the UK as only those keyboards have it.

The rest have $.

I'm English, currently living in Australia and when I speak to friends from home have to say 'quid' or K, as in 5K.

The OP however is using $ signs so is not posting from the UK and therefore must be back in Canada or wherever.

I hope that makes sense.

[sufunk]

You mean this? £

[Kevin.J]

You mean this? £

 

Or this $, I am in the UK

[sufunk]

Its just means he's one of the 2.9 billion people that own an ipad

[DiceX]

Its just means he's one of the 2.9 billion people that own an ipad

 

Or the 27.3 million people that know how to make a pound sign with an American keyboard.

 

Just hold down the alt key and type the F4 button, dude.

 

 

[500Club]

You mean this? £

 

Florida is in England?!? Damn Canadian school geography lessons. They're as bad as Roy's apell check.

[sufunk]

Its just means he's one of the 2.9 billion people that own an ipad

 

Or the 27.3 million people that know how to make a pound sign with an American keyboard.

 

Just hold down the alt key and type the F4 button, dude.

 

 

Matlock this dude aint!

 

Sorry man, that was pretty funny though!