Boba Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I am curious to see how this book performs closer to the movie. Right now we are seeing a decent run up with still plenty of time before BvSDOJ followed by two Justice League movies (2017 & 2019). I wonder if it can close the gap with SC #4 more significantly similar to what we have seen with AF #15 and Hulk #1 so there are the big two DC SA keys, instead of just one? I agree. I think BB28 will pass SC4. But will be interesting to watch. I, on the other hand, do not think BB28 will surpass SC4. It might close the gap between the two books in terms of value when the movie gets closer, but I think SC4 will be priced higher at the same time. SC4 has a few things going for it to make it the top SA DC book. First, it was the book that started the SA era. Second, it is the first appearance of a major superhero. Third, it is rare to find this book in any grade than BB28. These are some if not all the factors BB28 lack. It is like saying AV1 will surpass AF15, Hulk 1, TOS39, JIM83, etc. which I don't think it will also. Completely agree with this. Close maybe, but never more. That I believe is the proper use of the word never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderM Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I am curious to see how this book performs closer to the movie. Right now we are seeing a decent run up with still plenty of time before BvSDOJ followed by two Justice League movies (2017 & 2019). I wonder if it can close the gap with SC #4 more significantly similar to what we have seen with AF #15 and Hulk #1 so there are the big two DC SA keys, instead of just one? I agree. I think BB28 will pass SC4. But will be interesting to watch. I, on the other hand, do not think BB28 will surpass SC4. It might close the gap between the two books in terms of value when the movie gets closer, but I think SC4 will be priced higher at the same time. SC4 has a few things going for it to make it the top SA DC book. First, it was the book that started the SA era. Second, it is the first appearance of a major superhero. Third, it is rare to find this book in any grade than BB28. These are some if not all the factors BB28 lack. It is like saying AV1 will surpass AF15, Hulk 1, TOS39, JIM83, etc. which I don't think it will also. AV1 is a newer book and does not have the historical significance at all that BB28 has. A better comparison is FF1. BB28 is by many accounts the reason there even is an FF1. The historical significance of BB28 is huge and it is a real first appearance of a team. SC4 is not the first appearance of the Flash... it is 'just' the first appearance in X age (here silver age)... I really like SC4 for the great cover (up there with BB28 and SC34 imo) and it has some historical significance for perhaps (it's debatable) starting the SA with the return of the Flash. But I must say that these 'false 1st appearances' that are only first in x age - are not the same as the real first appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zosocane Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) The historical significance of BB28 is huge and it is a real first appearance of a team. SC4 is not the first appearance of the Flash... it is 'just' the first appearance in X age (here silver age)... I really like SC4 for the great cover (up there with BB28 and SC34 imo) and it has some historical significance for perhaps (it's debatable) starting the SA with the return of the Flash. But I must say that these 'false 1st appearances' that are only first in x age - are not the same as the real first appearances. I think BB28 is a huge book, but JLA isn't the first Silver Age appearance of a team. That distinction would belong to Challengers of the Unknown, which predates BB28 by 3 years. Jack Kirby has said that he borrowed elements from Challengers when he created the FF, so one could argue that Challengers has more nexus with FF than JLA. Also, if your view is that SC4 is not the first appearance of the Flash -- or that SC4 is a "false 1st appearance," to borrow your phrase) -- then isn't BB28 really another "false 1st appearance"? Wouldn't JLA be a Silver Age reboot and then-modernization of the JSA? The first JSA line-up and first JLA line-up share Flash and Green Lantern, albeit from different Ages of those characters, and later JSA line-ups had Wonder Woman, Bats and Supes. When one stops to look at the Silver Age rebirth of DC of the late 50s/early 60s, there are very few, original characters that made it "big" on their own (e.g., Adam Strange, Atom), largely because DC had a terrific library of Golden Age characters gathering dust on the shelves that only needed to be dusted off and polished. Edited May 11, 2015 by zosocane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I am curious to see how this book performs closer to the movie. Right now we are seeing a decent run up with still plenty of time before BvSDOJ followed by two Justice League movies (2017 & 2019). I wonder if it can close the gap with SC #4 more significantly similar to what we have seen with AF #15 and Hulk #1 so there are the big two DC SA keys, instead of just one? I agree. I think BB28 will pass SC4. But will be interesting to watch. I, on the other hand, do not think BB28 will surpass SC4. It might close the gap between the two books in terms of value when the movie gets closer, but I think SC4 will be priced higher at the same time. SC4 has a few things going for it to make it the top SA DC book. First, it was the book that started the SA era. Second, it is the first appearance of a major superhero. Third, it is rare to find this book in any grade than BB28. These are some if not all the factors BB28 lack. It is like saying AV1 will surpass AF15, Hulk 1, TOS39, JIM83, etc. which I don't think it will also. AV1 is a newer book and does not have the historical significance at all that BB28 has. A better comparison is FF1. BB28 is by many accounts the reason there even is an FF1. The historical significance of BB28 is huge and it is a real first appearance of a team. SC4 is not the first appearance of the Flash... it is 'just' the first appearance in X age (here silver age)... I really like SC4 for the great cover (up there with BB28 and SC34 imo) and it has some historical significance for perhaps (it's debatable) starting the SA with the return of the Flash. But I must say that these 'false 1st appearances' that are only first in x age - are not the same as the real first appearances. What do you mean by real 1st appearance? The GA Flash and SA flash are two completely different heroes. Both have different aliases, costumes, and backgrounds. Same also with Green Lantern. The Flash that most of us know today is the SA Flash character Barry Allen. Also the reason why I compared BB28 to Avengers 1 is because the superheroes in that issue had each of their own 1st appearance issues before they became a group, similar to BB28. Only difference is that BB28 is the start of the 1st SA group. And yes BB28 is more valuable than AV 1 because again it is harder to find and less in high grade. But if AV 1 was just as hard to find than B28, I think their values would equal because Marvel is more popular overall than DC in this day and age. Also, BB28 is not the 1st superhero group ever assembled. That would be All Star 3 back in the 1940s. Could this book be the one that started the team assembly of superheroes? I would think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderM Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) The historical significance of BB28 is huge and it is a real first appearance of a team. SC4 is not the first appearance of the Flash... it is 'just' the first appearance in X age (here silver age)... I really like SC4 for the great cover (up there with BB28 and SC34 imo) and it has some historical significance for perhaps (it's debatable) starting the SA with the return of the Flash. But I must say that these 'false 1st appearances' that are only first in x age - are not the same as the real first appearances. I think BB28 is a huge book, but JLA isn't the first Silver Age appearance of a team. That distinction would belong to Challengers of the Unknown, which predates BB28 by 3 years. Jack Kirby has said that he borrowed elements from Challengers when he created the FF, so one could argue that Challengers has more nexus with FF than JLA. Also, if your view is that SC4 is not the first appearance of the Flash -- or that SC4 is a "false 1st appearance," to borrow your phrase) -- then isn't BB28 really another "false 1st appearance"? Wouldn't JLA be a Silver Age reboot and then-modernization of the JSA? The first JSA line-up and first JLA line-up share Flash and Green Lantern, albeit from different Ages of those characters, and later JSA line-ups had Wonder Woman, Bats and Supes. Come one mate... JLA is it's own team..Otherwise FF is a copy of JLA and so on. Which is not the case. Many comics historians agree that the success of JLA inspired and motivated Marvel to go ahead with FF and other teams. I never said JLA was the first SA team. It said BB28 is the real first appearance of a team (JLA) - as opposed to SC4 which is merely an incarnation of a new person being an already introduced superhero - The Flash. Anyway, Challengers of the unknown was a bit earlier but not nearly as successful and was not the reason Marvel took the leap. This is fairly agreed upon. The first Super-hero team was Shield & Wizard. The first team of 3 or more is obviously JSA, but neither inspired Marvel in the particular situation they were in at the time. It is fairly agreed historically that the success of JLA did. Flash - runs fast etc. The Flash is the Flash - the same basic super-hero concept; and it is clear that DC reintoduced the Flash... that is the claim to starting the SA. So it would be tricky to claim it is an entirely different and new super-hero. No cake and eat it too I'm afraid Edited May 11, 2015 by AlexanderM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinjaSealed Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 JLA is not its own team. They decided to bring back the JSA and then decided to change a word because they thought it sounded better. Barry Allen is more of a reinvention of Jay Garrick than the JLA is of the JSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zosocane Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Barry Allen is more of a reinvention of Jay Garrick than the JLA is of the JSA. This. You can't divorce JLA from JSA. JLA was not created out of thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderM Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (edited) I completely disagree that JSA (Spectre etc.) is as similar to JLA (Superman and Batman) as Flash SA is to Flash GA. For example, which superpower defines the JSA? Not the same as define JLA... JLA notoriously has Superman etc. Which superpower defines Flash and the Flash? Speed..... and if they didn't like the sound of JSA... why did they bring JSA back in JLA21..... Sorry, I understand the love for SC4, but the basic concept of the Flash with those particular superpowers etc was already made when the SC4 was published. Edited May 11, 2015 by AlexanderM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zosocane Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I completely disagree that JSA (Spectre etc.) is as similar to JLA (Superman and Batman) as Flash SA is to Flash GA. If you start to explain why you completely disagree, I think then you will realise that the Justice League of America and the Justice League Society of America are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderM Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I completely disagree that JSA (Spectre etc.) is as similar to JLA (Superman and Batman) as Flash SA is to Flash GA. If you start to explain why you completely disagree, I think then you will realise that the Justice League of America and the Justice League Society of America are similar. I just did above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessndx Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 I completely disagree that JSA (Spectre etc.) is as similar to JLA (Superman and Batman) as Flash SA is to Flash GA. If you start to explain why you completely disagree, I think then you will realise that the Justice League of America and the Justice League Society of America are similar. Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, just saying that the JSA and the JLA are both active teams. One was modeled after another, but they are separate and distinct entities..... BB28 is CLEARLY the first time the Justice LEAGUE and not SOCIETY is formed. What else is there to discuss? This isn't the All-Star 3 speculation thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 All Star 3 is a great book to own. Never owned one but would love to someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accessndx Posted May 11, 2015 Author Share Posted May 11, 2015 All Star 3 is a great book to own. Never owned one but would love to someday. +1,000,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Seriously, which direction is this thread going now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 http://www.ebay.com/itm/201337763431?afsrc=1&rmvSB=true I guess this answer my question I don't get this. >$1,000 what is clearly a superior presenting copy (albeit slightly worse PQ). :shrug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumiho Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Question boardies, I was offered a CGC 4.5 of BB 28. At the time, GPA has been late in updating their pricing on this. Can anyone tell me how much should I pay for a 4.5 book? c/ow I would like a price that a "fair" collector is willing to pay I don't want to shoot a lowball offer and disrespect the seller. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Somewhere between $4500-$5000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 That range seems good for now, with the seller likely asking for $5000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryAllen Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I would it say it depends on how well it presents, whether or not it has been pressed (and the pressing is evident or not) and whether or not you get the "warm and fuzzes" when you see it. PQ can be very important to people (especially DC key collectors due to the perceived or real rareness); however, it is also very fickle. That said - I would say a fair range would be $4,500-$6,500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexanderM Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I would it say it depends on how well it presents, whether or not it has been pressed (and the pressing is evident or not) and whether or not you get the "warm and fuzzes" when you see it. PQ can be very important to people (especially DC key collectors due to the perceived or real rareness); however, it is also very fickle. That said - I would say a fair range would be $4,500-$6,500. This is what I was thinking too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
