CGC Acquires Classics Inc - Response to your Questions

[Chespirito]

This whole scenario reminds of what happenned at church yesterday. Some schtupid Immbecil decided to light a cigarrette while inside the church!! I was so freakin' mad, that I almost threw my beer at him

[Logan510]

Roy, Whether its pressed or not should not have anything to do with the grade of the book. They all get graded the same way, and if they are doing it the way they should be, the graders won't know it came through CI.

I'd say I'm right, there is a risk of giving submitters a reason to use another service or not use theirs at all. Even if I and many of us don't believe there should be one, there is some, albeit slim IMO, possibility the pressed label could become a stigmata, at which point Classics Inc (at least in association with CGC) would cease to exist.

 

Wanted to add to this.

 

Roy, if what you were saying is if they label books pressed by CI then it would give the perception that they may have been graded differently (with less scrutiny)...well, that brings us right back to the other thread and the perception of a conflict of interest.

 

It's not a question of scrutiny, it's a question of levelling the playing field for the graders so that they making consistent grading calls. The entire reason CGC did not label books as pressed was because they could not detect it.

 

All books that come through CI that would be pressed would be labelled as pressed.

All books that don't come through CI that might be pressed would not be labelled as pressed.

 

It would be an unbalanced grading system with not all books being treated the same way.

 

Yes, but that is the decision CGC has made. They claimed they couldn't detect pressing so it couldn't be put on the label. Now what's their excuse?

 

They will know for sure that books that get pressed from CI are in fact pressed. No more speculation. It's right there for them to know.

 

As for others who press and submit, well again that goes back to the original rationale for not noting it was pressed...because they can't tell.

 

If they know a book is pressed because their own company is doing it....they should disclose it. End of story.

 

By not disclosing it, it's a conflict of interest as an impartial grading company.

 

At least that's the way I see it.

 

Who are they disclosing it to? The person who sent in the books already knows they're being pressed right? Does CGC disclose pressing on all the books they already receive from known pressers? IMHO, it's up to the discretion of the seller to disclose whether a book has been pressed or not.

 

 

I can see your point as it relates to those known pressers who submit books already. I've thought to myself before that they know books coming from known pressers are most likely pressed....but that is MOST LIKELY. Not DEFINITELY.

 

Having the service in house takes any guessing away from the equation. They have an obligation as an impartial grading service to disclose what is absolutely known about the condition of a book. If they know without any uncertainty that a book has been pressed in house.....it should be noted.

 

Anything less is disingenuous. Again going back to the original reason why they said pressing couldn't be noted...because it was hard to detect. Now it's not so hard when you have the company down the hall doing it for you.

 

 

 

If we're to believe the graders don't know who the books are coming from ( and I do believe this ) then how are they to know who has pressed them?

 

That's a fair point. If they are truly blind to all of it and just get the book without any documentation (which is how it should be)....then you are right...they won't know.

 

However, CGC knows. Perhaps the grader won't know it's been pressed but someone knows for sure it has been pressed. For that, it should be noted.

 

 

They might as well note on the label that a book has potentially been pressed when they receive books from professional pressers. Granted, they don't know for 100% certainty it's been pressed, but I think they can make a pretty good guess.

[Mark 1]

Guessing is much different than knowing for sure because your own company is doing it.

[Mark 1]

This whole scenario reminds of what happenned at church yesterday. Some schtupid Immbecil decided to light a cigarrette while inside the church!! I was so freakin' mad, that I almost threw my beer at him

 

 

(edit...might offend some)

[PovertyRow]

This whole scenario reminds of what happenned at church yesterday. Some schtupid Immbecil decided to light a cigarrette while inside the church!! I was so freakin' mad, that I almost threw my beer at him

 

 

(edit...might offend some)

 

I thought it was funny and it also would have saved the beer!

[Logan510]

Guessing is much different than knowing for sure because your own company is doing it.

 

If people don't want it noted on the label, wouldn't CGC be driving people to their competition then? It makes no sense.

[pickycollector]

Roy, Whether its pressed or not should not have anything to do with the grade of the book. They all get graded the same way, and if they are doing it the way they should be, the graders won't know it came through CI.

I'd say I'm right, there is a risk of giving submitters a reason to use another service or not use theirs at all. Even if I and many of us don't believe there should be one, there is some, albeit slim IMO, possibility the pressed label could become a stigmata, at which point Classics Inc (at least in association with CGC) would cease to exist.

 

Wanted to add to this.

 

Roy, if what you were saying is if they label books pressed by CI then it would give the perception that they may have been graded differently (with less scrutiny)...well, that brings us right back to the other thread and the perception of a conflict of interest.

 

It's not a question of scrutiny, it's a question of levelling the playing field for the graders so that they making consistent grading calls. The entire reason CGC did not label books as pressed was because they could not detect it.

 

All books that come through CI that would be pressed would be labelled as pressed.

All books that don't come through CI that might be pressed would not be labelled as pressed.

 

It would be an unbalanced grading system with not all books being treated the same way.

 

Yes, but that is the decision CGC has made. They claimed they couldn't detect pressing so it couldn't be put on the label. Now what's their excuse?

 

They will know for sure that books that get pressed from CI are in fact pressed. No more speculation. It's right there for them to know.

 

As for others who press and submit, well again that goes back to the original rationale for not noting it was pressed...because they can't tell.

 

If they know a book is pressed because their own company is doing it....they should disclose it. End of story.

 

By not disclosing it, it's a conflict of interest as an impartial grading company.

 

At least that's the way I see it.

+1

 

One more time.

Just because they KNOW a book was pressed by CI doesn't mean they suddenly know books are pressed by the multiple others providing this service.

There is an iota of a chance that it may give the perception of stigmata to books labeled pressed. Therefore they may be cutting out much of their customer base for the pressing service by labeling books as pressed because those customers will use an alternative pressing service that won't get their books labeled.

 

 

Then it's just deception to make more money. As an impartial grading company they have an obligation to note what they know for 100% sure what has been done to a comic. If they offer the service to press then it should be noted.

 

How about this one.....

 

If they know a book has had restoration removed....that should be noted as well.

 

I know it's unfathomable to think but this is why it's a conflict of interest.

 

I must admit that MCMiles has a good point here.

 

If CGC decides to not disclose pressing when done by CI, clearly the reason will be because they do not want to lose money nor to lose their customer base.

 

But then they will violate their transparency standard. That will not be good for their reputation as an impartial company that is supposed to disclose all known information.

 

Which one will then prevail: profit maximization or transparency ?

 

It seems that whatever CGC decides to do, they will lose. They just did open a pandora's box they should have left closed.

[Mark 1]

Agreed. There is a reason why they abandoned the idea years ago (until now)

[MCMiles]

When did they ever say they disclose all known information?

 

They grade a book based on their standards, they note restoration based on what they consider restoration, and they note publishing information.

 

I think some of you guys are confusing CGC with a public service. It a service for sale, you can buy it or not.

 

 

[pickycollector]

Conflict of Interest

At the end of the day our credibility is the most integral component of CGC. We have worked for over a decade to build this company into what it has become today. We have no interest in assigning the wrong grade to any book and I can assure you, from the top down at CGC, we all feel the same way. We are not in this for any short-term gain and would like to remain your grading service of choice forever. We take our responsibility to the hobby very seriously and will never abuse your trust.

 

As all of this relates to the purchase of Classics Incorporated, I am happy to consult with an advisory group of your peers to make sure that we do this properly. We are here to make money but we are also here to be transparent and do what is best for the hobby. While it is hard to please everyone, we will certainly go out of our way to address as many of the legitimate concerns that you have. The following is a list of the most frequently asked questions and responses:

[Prince Namor]

Guessing is much different than knowing for sure because your own company is doing it.

 

If people don't want it noted on the label, wouldn't CGC be driving people to their competition then? It makes no sense.

 

Exactly. How can anyone still not see this?

A) they don't see it as restoration in the first place so why would they note it now?

B) if they for some strange reason they DID decide to note it, it would only make people use another service to keep from getting the notation. They certainly didn't add CI to their services to find ways to drive away business.

 

 

[thehumantorch]

Roy, Whether its pressed or not should not have anything to do with the grade of the book. They all get graded the same way, and if they are doing it the way they should be, the graders won't know it came through CI.

I'd say I'm right, there is a risk of giving submitters a reason to use another service or not use theirs at all. Even if I and many of us don't believe there should be one, there is some, albeit slim IMO, possibility the pressed label could become a stigmata, at which point Classics Inc (at least in association with CGC) would cease to exist.

 

Wanted to add to this.

 

Roy, if what you were saying is if they label books pressed by CI then it would give the perception that they may have been graded differently (with less scrutiny)...well, that brings us right back to the other thread and the perception of a conflict of interest.

 

It's not a question of scrutiny, it's a question of levelling the playing field for the graders so that they making consistent grading calls. The entire reason CGC did not label books as pressed was because they could not detect it.

 

All books that come through CI that would be pressed would be labelled as pressed.

All books that don't come through CI that might be pressed would not be labelled as pressed.

 

It would be an unbalanced grading system with not all books being treated the same way.

 

Yes, but that is the decision CGC has made. They claimed they couldn't detect pressing so it couldn't be put on the label. Now what's their excuse?

 

They will know for sure that books that get pressed from CI are in fact pressed. No more speculation. It's right there for them to know.

 

As for others who press and submit, well again that goes back to the original rationale for not noting it was pressed...because they can't tell.

 

If they know a book is pressed because their own company is doing it....they should disclose it. End of story.

 

By not disclosing it, it's a conflict of interest as an impartial grading company.

 

At least that's the way I see it.

+1

 

One more time.

Just because they KNOW a book was pressed by CI doesn't mean they suddenly know books are pressed by the multiple others providing this service.

There is an iota of a chance that it may give the perception of stigmata to books labeled pressed. Therefore they may be cutting out much of their customer base for the pressing service by labeling books as pressed because those customers will use an alternative pressing service that won't get their books labeled.

 

 

Then it's just deception to make more money. As an impartial grading company they have an obligation to note what they know for 100% sure what has been done to a comic. If they offer the service to press then it should be noted.

 

How about this one.....

 

If they know a book has had restoration removed....that should be noted as well.

 

I know it's unfathomable to think but this is why it's a conflict of interest.

 

I must admit that MCMiles has a good point here.

 

If CGC decides to not disclose pressing when done by CI, clearly the reason will be because they do not want to lose money nor to lose their customer base.

 

But then they will violate their transparency standard. That will not be good for their reputation as an impartial company that is supposed to disclose all known information.

 

Which one will then prevail: profit maximization or transparency ?

 

It seems that whatever CGC decides to do, they will lose. They just did open a pandora's box they should have left closed.

 

I think we all know the answer to this question. Of course they'll argue pressing isn't restoration and doesn't require disclosure.

[Mark 1]

And around we go....WHEEEEEEEE!

 

[Mark 1]

I'll never understand anyone saying pressing isn't restoration. But whatever....there are people who claim 911 was a set up. We didn't land on the moon. Jim Morrison is still alive. So is Bruce Lee. And Snooki is attractive.

 

I'll never understand those people either.

 

 

[pickycollector]

Roy, Whether its pressed or not should not have anything to do with the grade of the book. They all get graded the same way, and if they are doing it the way they should be, the graders won't know it came through CI.

I'd say I'm right, there is a risk of giving submitters a reason to use another service or not use theirs at all. Even if I and many of us don't believe there should be one, there is some, albeit slim IMO, possibility the pressed label could become a stigmata, at which point Classics Inc (at least in association with CGC) would cease to exist.

 

Wanted to add to this.

 

Roy, if what you were saying is if they label books pressed by CI then it would give the perception that they may have been graded differently (with less scrutiny)...well, that brings us right back to the other thread and the perception of a conflict of interest.

 

It's not a question of scrutiny, it's a question of levelling the playing field for the graders so that they making consistent grading calls. The entire reason CGC did not label books as pressed was because they could not detect it.

 

All books that come through CI that would be pressed would be labelled as pressed.

All books that don't come through CI that might be pressed would not be labelled as pressed.

 

It would be an unbalanced grading system with not all books being treated the same way.

 

Yes, but that is the decision CGC has made. They claimed they couldn't detect pressing so it couldn't be put on the label. Now what's their excuse?

 

They will know for sure that books that get pressed from CI are in fact pressed. No more speculation. It's right there for them to know.

 

As for others who press and submit, well again that goes back to the original rationale for not noting it was pressed...because they can't tell.

 

If they know a book is pressed because their own company is doing it....they should disclose it. End of story.

 

By not disclosing it, it's a conflict of interest as an impartial grading company.

 

At least that's the way I see it.

+1

 

One more time.

Just because they KNOW a book was pressed by CI doesn't mean they suddenly know books are pressed by the multiple others providing this service.

There is an iota of a chance that it may give the perception of stigmata to books labeled pressed. Therefore they may be cutting out much of their customer base for the pressing service by labeling books as pressed because those customers will use an alternative pressing service that won't get their books labeled.

 

 

Then it's just deception to make more money. As an impartial grading company they have an obligation to note what they know for 100% sure what has been done to a comic. If they offer the service to press then it should be noted.

 

How about this one.....

 

If they know a book has had restoration removed....that should be noted as well.

 

I know it's unfathomable to think but this is why it's a conflict of interest.

 

I must admit that MCMiles has a good point here.

 

If CGC decides to not disclose pressing when done by CI, clearly the reason will be because they do not want to lose money nor to lose their customer base.

 

But then they will violate their transparency standard. That will not be good for their reputation as an impartial company that is supposed to disclose all known information.

 

Which one will then prevail: profit maximization or transparency ?

 

It seems that whatever CGC decides to do, they will lose. They just did open a pandora's box they should have left closed.

 

I think we all know the answer to this question. Of course they'll argue pressing isn't restoration and doesn't require disclosure.

The reason that was given to me for years for CGC to not disclose pressing was that it was not possible to detect it with 100% certainty. I remember a phone conversation I had with a CGC representative years ago.

 

CGC is well aware that pressing is a very controversial subject and that some people do consider it as restoration and some don't.

 

Now if the reason for not disclosing the information has changed, I would like to hear the confirmation from a CGC representative.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I'll never understand anyone saying pressing isn't restoration. But whatever....there are people who claim 911 was a set up. We didn't land on the moon. Jim Morrison is still alive. So is Bruce Lee. And Snooki is attractive.

 

I'll never understand those people either.

 

 

Sounds like your NyQuil trip is peaking.

[Mark 1]

I'll never understand anyone saying pressing isn't restoration. But whatever....there are people who claim 911 was a set up. We didn't land on the moon. Jim Morrison is still alive. So is Bruce Lee. And Snooki is attractive.

 

I'll never understand those people either.

 

 

Sounds like your NyQuil trip is peaking.

 

 

It is!

 

I'm staying up late so I can get my last dose before hitting the hay.

 

This cold has kicked my butt this week. I need to get rid of it before Monday.

 

 

[sterlingcomics]

If CGC decides to not disclose pressing when done by CI, clearly the reason will be because they do not want to lose money nor to lose their customer base.

 

But then they will violate their transparency standard. That will not be good for their reputation as an impartial company that is supposed to disclose all known information.

 

Which one will then prevail: profit maximization or transparency ?

 

It seems that whatever CGC decides to do, they will lose. They just did open a pandora's box they should have left closed.

This kind of sums it up nicely the conversation we were having a few pages ago. I also believed CCG has run a risk analysis and have assigned a number to each. We'll see which one wins. There is a perceived winner here, although I'm thinking the ending of Wargames is more appropriate.

[sterlingcomics]

When did they ever say they disclose all know information?

 

They haven't, but some folks want to know if a book has been serviced by CI if they are under the same umbrella; call it Grader's Notes Plus.

 

Before it was impossible to know if a book was pressed, the question is we can actually get some value of the merger by getting that information since it will be known. Question is will this violate the perception of separation of the companies by providing this, and will the service in some way constrict existing books from being "optimized" in the future if the information is known by the owner (obvious answer). For most people however, will look at the book defect and make their assessment for using the service or not instead of blindly relying on information which may not be forthcoming.

 

I'd personally like for it to be disclosed if known, but walking through the above mentally it seems to get dicey.

[Logan510]

I'll never understand anyone saying pressing isn't restoration. But whatever....there are people who claim 911 was a set up. We didn't land on the moon. Jim Morrison is still alive. So is Bruce Lee. And Snooki is attractive.

 

I'll never understand those people either.

 

 

I'll never understand people who use their services or buy books in their little plastic cases and complain about them all the time...yet it happens regularly