the blob Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 OMG, now there will be an infinite debate on which is the first true first app!!! hulk 142 has a great cover though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uchiha101 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 OMG, now there will be an infinite debate on which is the first true first app!!! hulk 142 has a great cover though haha yup it will be 180 vs 181 all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricprune Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Not sure if this was addressed when it sold, but... Link GPA lists it as $4750. Higher than what the lone 9.9 sold for in '05. Tomb of Dracula #10. That ebay seller looks awfully familiar.... -J. Not a credible seller? There is/was another listed for over $4000 on ebay last I looked. I had received a few very legit offers on my 9.8 through Heritage recently, although nowhere near $4000+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomtown Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 OMG, now there will be an infinite debate on which is the first true first app!!! hulk 142 has a great cover though I don't understand those that argue that Avengers 83 isn't her first appearance. It's no different than Hulk 142 in that a different persons body is used for the Valkyrie. If you are going that route, then Defenders #4 with the first appearance of the Barbera Norris heroic Valkyrie that became popular would seem to be the 1st appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pickycollector Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 If you compare Valkyrie with, let's say, a character like Ms Marvel for example, then Hulk 126 (1st Barbara Norriss) has the same importance as Captain Marvel 18 has (1st Carol Danvers) And yes, Defenders #4 should worth more indeed (1st Barbara Norriss as Valkyrie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Not sure if this was addressed when it sold, but... Link GPA lists it as $4750. Higher than what the lone 9.9 sold for in '05. Tomb of Dracula #10. That ebay seller looks awfully familiar.... -J. Not a credible seller? There is/was another listed for over $4000 on ebay last I looked. I had received a few very legit offers on my 9.8 through Heritage recently, although nowhere near $4000+. Yes that seller has been known to shill books before on ebay. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the blob Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 OMG, now there will be an infinite debate on which is the first true first app!!! hulk 142 has a great cover though I don't understand those that argue that Avengers 83 isn't her first appearance. It's no different than Hulk 142 in that a different persons body is used for the Valkyrie. If you are going that route, then Defenders #4 with the first appearance of the Barbera Norris heroic Valkyrie that became popular would seem to be the 1st appearance. frankly, it's the first time i even thought about it as i assumed, incorrectly, she had been introduced somewhere in the JIM/Thor run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaillant Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 That is actually very simple, as we explained various times: – Avengers #83 is not the first apperance because it’s the Enchantress disguised as her, so it’s just the apperance of her features; – Hulk #142 is the proper first appearance but she is in the persona of Samantha Parrington, and the thing is temporary; – Defenders #4 is the first apperance of Val switching bodies with Barbara, so it is understandable, and makes sense, to consider it probably the most important, given that she is the Valkyrie identity people known and loved. Hulk #126 remains an absolute key book to me: part of the trilogy which lays the basis for the Defenders idea to come. And then there are the important Defenders issues with the Valkyrie origin story, in the #60s range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaillant Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 OMG, now there will be an infinite debate on which is the first true first app!!! hulk 142 has a great cover though haha yup it will be 180 vs 181 all over again. No, it’s a lot simpler. See above. In this case, each one chooses what is important based on the stories. To me, they are all important, but I have to choose they are Hulk #126 and Defenders #4. I just love the Val/Barbara split venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomtown Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 That is actually very simple, as we explained various times: – Avengers #83 is not the first apperance because it’s the Enchantress disguised as her, so it’s just the apperance of her features; – Hulk #142 is the proper first appearance but she is in the persona of Samantha Parrington, and the thing is temporary; – Defenders #4 is the first apperance of Val switching bodies with Barbara, so it is understandable, and makes sense, to consider it probably the most important, given that she is the Valkyrie identity people known and loved. Hulk #126 remains an absolute key book to me: part of the trilogy which lays the basis for the Defenders idea to come. And then there are the important Defenders issues with the Valkyrie origin story, in the #60s range. I understand it is all perfectly obvious to you, but to someone who was reading the books when they came out, Avengers 83 is the obvious one to me. The character was named & powers /costume revealed. Six to eight months later she again appeared in Hulk #142 & I thought to myself "Hey, there's Valkyrie again". At no point in time did I see the character in Hulk #142 & think that it was a brand new character, she had already been created in Avengers #83. It's as bizarre as the whole Domino situation in New Mutants 98 & X-Force #(?). Domino was introduced in New Mutants 98, I don't care that it was an impostor for the first year or so. as Marvel Wiki states it. First Appearance Avengers #83 (December, 1970) (as Enchantress) Incredible Hulk #142 (August, 1971) (as Samantha Parrington) Defenders #4 (February, 1973) (as Barbara Norriss) Defenders #109 (July, 1982) (as Brunnhilde) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaillant Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 I see what you mean, but I don’t know if with Liefeld that was intentional. With Thomas I believe he did not mean to use the character afterwards, and in the story it still is the Enchantress. We are just shown her impersonating a character that we did not know before but she remains the Enchantress. I don’ understand why the Marvel Wiki states #83 as Valkyrie appearing "as Enchantress" while it is the Enchantress posing as her, so the opposite. :shrug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaillant Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 And it’s clear than when she appears as Samantha she is always the Enchantress, but it seems it’s just that we are seeing her for the first time, since in Avengers #83 she does not actually appear. Better to re-read Avengers #83, but I am pretty sure that she is just the Enchantress doing all the "staging". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianR Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 And it’s clear than when she appears as Samantha she is always the Enchantress, but it seems it’s just that we are seeing her for the first time, since in Avengers #83 she does not actually appear. Better to re-read Avengers #83, but I am pretty sure that she is just the Enchantress doing all the "staging". Just like with Captain America in ST 114. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
___ Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 For the sake of Valkyrie the first appearance is clearly avengers 83. All the recons of characters and alias aren't first appearances. First appearance of the Alias maybe but not the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Oates Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 And it’s clear than when she appears as Samantha she is always the Enchantress, but it seems it’s just that we are seeing her for the first time, since in Avengers #83 she does not actually appear. Better to re-read Avengers #83, but I am pretty sure that she is just the Enchantress doing all the "staging". Just like with Captain America in ST 114. Yes exactly. ST 114 with Acrobat disguised as Captain America hardly makes people look at it as a first silver age appearance. VS Avengers 4 there is no comparison. Though in this case the imposter is a heretofore unknown character, in Av 83; I predict the Hulk book will take off more. Also factor in the quality of the Hulk cover, compared to the Av 83. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 And it’s clear than when she appears as Samantha she is always the Enchantress, but it seems it’s just that we are seeing her for the first time, since in Avengers #83 she does not actually appear. Better to re-read Avengers #83, but I am pretty sure that she is just the Enchantress doing all the "staging". Just like with Captain America in ST 114. Yes exactly. ST 114 with Acrobat disguised as Captain America hardly makes people look at it as a first silver age appearance. VS Avengers 4 there is no comparison. Though in this case the imposter is a heretofore unknown character, in Av 83; I predict the Hulk book will take off more. Also factor in the quality of the Hulk cover, compared to the Av 83. The cap comparison in ST 114 is not a comparison at all. Cap was an already introduced and established character decades before that book came out. And NM 98 is also the first appearance of Domino (since that actually is that character's first appearance, regardless of the narrative ret-con/bait and switch that was pulled a year later). -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazyboy Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For the sake of Valkyrie the first appearance is clearly avengers 83. All the recons of characters and alias aren't first appearances. First appearance of the Alias maybe but not the character. Avengers 83 isn't the first appearance of a character, just the first published depiction of a character's likeness - as portrayed by an impostor. You might as well just go full Ween. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For the sake of Valkyrie the first appearance is clearly avengers 83. All the recons of characters and alias aren't first appearances. First appearance of the Alias maybe but not the character. Avengers 83 isn't the first appearance of a character, just the first published depiction of a character's likeness - as portrayed by an impostor. You might as well just go full Ween. Not that I give two whits about the character, but that would be what they call in legal parlance "a distinction without a difference". (thumbs u -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomtown Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For the sake of Valkyrie the first appearance is clearly avengers 83. All the recons of characters and alias aren't first appearances. First appearance of the Alias maybe but not the character. Avengers 83 isn't the first appearance of a character, just the first published depiction of a character's likeness - as portrayed by an impostor. You might as well just go full Ween. Really now, you haven't even read the issues you're discussing, have you? In all 3 of the first appearances, the Enchantress is the one to give the Valkyrie's likeness/personality/powers to each character. In Avengers 83 she used the likeness on herself against the Avengers. In Hulk 142, she used the likeness on Samantha Pennington to attack the Hulk. In Defenders #4, she again used it on Barbara Norriss to help her with the Defenders. What in the world is the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonzilla Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 For the sake of Valkyrie the first appearance is clearly avengers 83. All the recons of characters and alias aren't first appearances. First appearance of the Alias maybe but not the character. Avengers 83 isn't the first appearance of a character, just the first published depiction of a character's likeness - as portrayed by an impostor. You might as well just go full Ween. Really now, you haven't even read the issues you're discussing, have you? In all 3 of the first appearances, the Enchantress is the one to give the Valkyrie's likeness/personality/powers to each character. In Avengers 83 she used the likeness on herself against the Avengers. In Hulk 142, she used the likeness on Samantha Pennington to attack the Hulk. In Defenders #4, she again used it on Barbara Norriss to help her with the Defenders. What in the world is the difference? Avengers 83: 1st time Valkyrie's name is used? Check. First Valkyrie's likeness? Check. Prominent cover appearance? Check. Valkyrie's looks exactly the same as in every appearance over the next 30-40 years? Check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
