What does PRESSING IT OUT mean exactly?

[fantastic_four]

Will a book trim itself over time?

Will CT form over time?

Will staples replace themselves over time?

Will missing pieces knit themselves back together over time?

 

Will a non-color breaking bend go away in time if the book is stored properly?

 

None of those things happen over time.

 

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

[originalisbest]

Will a book trim itself over time?

Will CT form over time?

Will staples replace themselves over time?

Will missing pieces knit themselves back together over time?

 

Will a non-color breaking bend go away in time if the book is stored properly?

 

None of those things happen over time.

 

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

I think you're wrong though, about Joe's point -- a non color breaking bend can go away in time, given the right storage technique. Paging Mr Church and the bottom half of his stacks.... for the other scenarios, you are quite right.

[Bunky Brian]

Pressing comics is a process where typically a dry mount press is used at low heat in conjunction with moisture, which helps relax the paper fibers, in order to remove bends, dents, and rolls from the books. Often the whole process can be completed in a matter of minutes.

 

Books with defects like the ones listed above that do not break color can be pressed into extremely high grade.

 

Pressing when done properly is extremely difficult to detect. Definitely difficult to detect on a consistent basis. The end result of dry mount pressing is also similar, if not identical, to the end result as if the book were stored in optimal and certain conditions (flat and under some amount of pressure) for a long period of time, which also makes it difficult for anyone to determine if a book has been pressed or not.

 

CGC has chosen not to consider pressing restoration. Most likely, because it can not be detected consistently, or determined if it was done intentionally by mechanical means or not. It's also believed that they choose not to because it helps continue to bring in more business. They often grade the same book two, three or more times, because they are purchased, cracked out, often pressed, and resubmitted in hopes of a higher grade.

 

Many consider pressing restoration, and by definition it is. It's a process of removing defects, which restores a book to a state closer to which it was when it was manufactured.

 

Many do not consider it restoration. Probably, because as mentioned, the same results can be found naturally over a longer period of time. The logic there is: If you stored a book poorly and it gained defects because of poor storage, it would be down graded for it. ie: a stacking curl. Conversely, if you stored a book, that already had a stacking curl, flat enough and long enough to remove the curl, you would grade it in it's current state. Not down grading it for a curl that no longer exists.

 

Many consider pressing to be so non invasive that it really doesn't bother them. Some are completely turned off by it, and don't want to own any books that have been pressed. For this reason, disclosure is a hot topic. Most believe that the information should be disclosed to any potential buyers. Many believe that information should be pro-active. Many care very little about pressing, and just don't care to ask or keep track. Some use the logic that "CGC doesn't mind it, I don't mind it, so if someone that does mind it wants to know, then they should ask."

 

Without a doubt. Pressing makes pretty books. It also goes without saying that the driving force behind the popularity of pressing is the possible financial gains to be made form the process. Perhaps, also, it's acceptance is rooted in the fact that it is very non invasive and does make a good product with all original material (nothing physically added or taken away). As an example you will find the comic community less divided on issues of tape and a newer result of pressing being referred to as "spine re-alignment therepy". Those are widely frowned upon.

 

There are many debates on pressing and disclosure that can be found here on the CGC chat boards.

 

Nice, well articulated, intelligent response, thank you BB

[Jeffro.]

Will a book trim itself over time?

Will CT form over time?

Will staples replace themselves over time?

Will missing pieces knit themselves back together over time?

 

Will a non-color breaking bend go away in time if the book is stored properly?

 

None of those things happen over time.

 

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

I think you're wrong though, about Joe's point -- a non color breaking bend can go away in time, given the right storage technique. Paging Mr Church and the bottom half of his stacks.... for the other scenarios, you are quite right.

 

Correct.

By the way, how does everyone feel about the fact that Church books (at least some of them) are pressed?

[RockMyAmadeus]

[originalisbest]

Will a book trim itself over time?

Will CT form over time?

Will staples replace themselves over time?

Will missing pieces knit themselves back together over time?

 

Will a non-color breaking bend go away in time if the book is stored properly?

 

None of those things happen over time.

 

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

I think you're wrong though, about Joe's point -- a non color breaking bend can go away in time, given the right storage technique. Paging Mr Church and the bottom half of his stacks.... for the other scenarios, you are quite right.

 

Correct.

By the way, how does everyone feel about the fact that Church books (at least some of them) are pressed?

 

To me it doesn't matter, and without being Chuck, I think you'd be hard-pressed () to ever be able to tell, excepting a "bad" press job, because the bottom half of Edgar's book stacks were pressed to the nth degree, never moving in years, and remaining as beautiful as the day they were made.

[mrmyst]

Edgar Church was the first presser.

[fantastic_four]

I think you're wrong though, about Joe's point -- a non color breaking bend can go away in time, given the right storage technique. Paging Mr Church and the bottom half of his stacks.... for the other scenarios, you are quite right.

 

I was thrown by his "if the book is stored properly" statement. Stacks are a risky way to store comics, which is why Overstreet has always recommended against them. If the stack shifts or is tipped, one or more books are going to get ruined.

 

Either way, there's no implication of intent in the definition of restoration that I've ever heard. If it happens because you did it intentionally or it happens by accident, the book still reverted to a previous state.

[fantastic_four]

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

One other thing I remembered about CGC's communication about books with trimming only--they don't put the (A) or (P) designator next to the grade. They apparently don't feel the need to designate trimming as amateur or professional since they don't consider it to be restoration in the first place.

[originalisbest]

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

One other thing I remembered about CGC's communication about books with trimming only--they don't put the (A) or (P) designator next to the grade. They apparently don't feel the need to designate trimming as amateur or professional since they don't consider it to be restoration in the first place.

 

I would technically agree, a trim cannot be restoration; but it would be properly termed alteration. In any case, it's hair-splitting over a definition of terms, but the market has final say on what such-and-such does to a book's value.

[joeypost]

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

One other thing I remembered about CGC's communication about books with trimming only--they don't put the (A) or (P) designator next to the grade. They apparently don't feel the need to designate trimming as amateur or professional since they don't consider it to be restoration in the first place.

 

I would technically agree, a trim cannot be restoration; but it would be properly termed alteration. In any case, it's hair-splitting over a definition of terms, but the market has final say on what such-and-such does to a book's value.

 

I like "destruction" better.

[comicwiz]

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

One other thing I remembered about CGC's communication about books with trimming only--they don't put the (A) or (P) designator next to the grade. They apparently don't feel the need to designate trimming as amateur or professional since they don't consider it to be restoration in the first place.

 

I would technically agree, a trim cannot be restoration; but it would be properly termed alteration. In any case, it's hair-splitting over a definition of terms, but the market has final say on what such-and-such does to a book's value.

 

Trimmed books usually get an (A) designation for Amateur. Steve always called it destruction.

[Jeffro.]

I personally think a lot of what is termed as "restoration" is really damage or destruction. Things like trimming and amateur color touch to me should not be labeled as resto but should be given a much harsher negative stigmatic term.

Non-archival tape also fits into this because of it's destructive nature.

[Comicopolis]

I've always found it interesting that CGC does not define trimming as restoration--sort of. Ciconni doesn't call it restoration either, she and CGC call it "damage." CGC is a bit confused in the way they communicate trimming on the slab label though. When a book is only trimmed, it does have the "CGC Restored Grade" text and purple color on the label, but they note it in a separate place on the label from where they usually note restoration. The word "TRIMMED" appears in the upper-right, which was their way of separating it from the place they put restoration. Kind of mixed communication that probably nobody picks up on though. I can't remember exactly, but I think Borock said they originally batted the idea around of putting them into green labels, but they eventually went with the purple label because of the stigma that collectors tend to put on trimmed books--he didn't want someone mistakenly thinking that the collecting world thinks that trimming is somehow more highly regarded than additive restoration. Treat that as hearsay, though, it has been a while since I thought about the subject. I know we've discussed it in the forums in the past.

 

One other thing I remembered about CGC's communication about books with trimming only--they don't put the (A) or (P) designator next to the grade. They apparently don't feel the need to designate trimming as amateur or professional since they don't consider it to be restoration in the first place.

 

I would technically agree, a trim cannot be restoration; but it would be properly termed alteration. In any case, it's hair-splitting over a definition of terms, but the market has final say on what such-and-such does to a book's value.

 

I like "destruction" better.

 

Anarchist

[fantastic_four]

Trimmed books usually get an (A) designation for Amateur. Steve always called it destruction.

 

The (A) applies to other work besides the trimming in every example I've seen. Here's a book with only trimming--note there is no (A) or (P) under the numerical grade. There's also no slight, moderate, or heavy designator either.

 

[comicwiz]

There appear to be some exceptions. I haven't really been following purple labels, but always remembered them making mention of Amateur or Professional, including slight/moderate/extensive label notation. If it was trimmed, it usually got the (A). Almost every old purple label had this, but it seems there's some variance as the purple label evolved to the new label:

 

[fantastic_four]

The appear to be some exceptions. I haven't really been following purple labels, but always remembered them making mention of Amateur or Professional, including slight/moderate/extensive label notation:

 

In your example, the restoration descriptions are for everything except the trimming. The exception is books that ONLY have trimming, which isn't all that common. I've seen old-label books with only trimming and no (A) or (P) notations or slight/moderate/extensive notations.

[comicwiz]

The appear to be some exceptions. I haven't really been following purple labels, but always remembered them making mention of Amateur or Professional, including slight/moderate/extensive label notation:

 

In your example, the restoration descriptions are for everything except the trimming. The exception is books that ONLY have trimming, which isn't all that common. I've seen old-label books with only trimming and no (A) or (P) notations or slight/moderate/extensive notations.

 

Ok, let me say it another way. I have never seen a book with the notation "trimmed" with a "P" designation.

[october]

The appear to be some exceptions. I haven't really been following purple labels, but always remembered them making mention of Amateur or Professional, including slight/moderate/extensive label notation:

 

In your example, the restoration descriptions are for everything except the trimming. The exception is books that ONLY have trimming, which isn't all that common. I've seen old-label books with only trimming and no (A) or (P) notations or slight/moderate/extensive notations.

 

Comics with pro work exist with trimming.

 

Superman 1

 

Superman 2

[BlowUpTheMoon]

The (A) or (P) refers to the materials used, not to the person who did the work.