What does PRESSING IT OUT mean exactly?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

It's not profitable? So you don't make money, and you sell to pressers who wreck the books and destroyed your love of high grade anyway? That's your argument?

 

I deserve to make a profit because of the amount of hard work I put in, because of the years of good deals I've made to build a rep, because of the transparency I bring to my dealings.

[namisgr]

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

 

This seems disingenuous. Do you really think that most collectors of high grade unrestored books can build their collections by finding unblemished original owner high grade collections themselves? How many board members other than yourself who aren't full time dealers have built large collections that way? I think the number is quite small, and not because of the inconvenience, but rather the difficulty of finding several of these collections before full time dealers have.

 

I think it would be tough. Very tough, but I do think it could be done, especially by building a network of dealers that can be trusted to disclose if asked.

 

People on here have collected every DC comic in existence, completed sets of Centaurs, and surmounted plenty of comic book challenges...I find it hard to believe that putting together a set of unmanipulated Silver Age Marvels would be harder.

 

So who here has done it?

 

Who here are really tried putting together a set straight from the source? None that I am aware of.

 

The finances are a limiting issue, especially when going after a complete run of SA Marvels in ultra high grade. It is the rare collection that has them in depth and breadth, and when one finds such a collection the cost of buying it all at once is prohibitive. For most of us, slow and steady accumulation is our only viable option.

 

When I came across the Pacific Coast Marvels in the spring of '99 as they were brought to market en masse by PCEI, I bought 13 of them, which is about all I could afford and was willing to buy sight unseen. It was the dealers like Arrand and Schmell who stepped in shortly thereafter, flew to Rancho Palos Verdes to see the comics, and bought the complete titles.

[october]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

It's not profitable? So you don't make money, and you sell to pressers who wreck the books and destroyed your love of high grade anyway? That's your argument?

 

I deserve to make a profit because of the amount of hard work I put in, because of the years of good deals I've made to build a rep, because of the transparency I bring to my dealings.

 

I deleted the post you quoted. These discussions might serve some purpose for others, but I am pretty sure we both have thought through our positions to the point where getting riled up at each other isn't going to lead to much good.

 

I apologize if things got too personal. Pressing threads bring out the worst in a lot of people and tend to escalate quickly.

[Logan510]

Adapt? Why should I have to adapt.

 

 

The cat is out of the bag, it's either adapt or move on. This is a bell that can't be unrung.

So my only other alternative is to go with manipulated books because the cats out of the bag?

 

I understand why you're upset, but like I said this is a bell that can't be unrung.

[joecgcmaniac]

[Mr.Diggler]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

[batman_fan]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

[oakman29]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

I follow you Roy,and I would be more than happy to pay a premium for unmolested books.

[originalisbest]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

You have no dog in the fight. If you want to sell your 8.5s to 9.6 makers, then do so but no fair whining about what they do with what are now their books. If you want the obscene () profits for yourself, then press them yourself. You seem to be OK with making a profit selling 8.5s (if you didn't make a profit, I imagine you couldn't sustain yourself in biz) so I wonder where bemoaning others who make a further profit comes from?

[Logan510]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

 

IMHO, disclosing is fools gold. I admire the people who do it because they're being honest. But I would have to imagine that a large majority who buy the disclosed books, do not mention it upon resale ( not counting the microcosm that is the boards ) and the disclosure falls by the wayside.

 

Not to mention the majority of collectors out there who either a) don't know what pressing is or b) don't care

[Logan510]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

You have no dog in the fight. If you want to sell your 8.5s to 9.6 makers, then do so but no fair whining about what they do with what are now their books. If you want the obscene () profits for yourself, then press them yourself. You seem to be OK with making a profit selling 8.5s (if you didn't make a profit, I imagine you couldn't sustain yourself in biz) so I wonder where bemoaning others who make a further profit comes from?

 

Interesting point of view

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

 

[Logan510]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

I follow you Roy,and I would be more than happy to pay a premium for unmolested books.

 

So would a lot of pressers

[batman_fan]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

 

IMHO, disclosing is fools gold. I admire the people who do it because they're being honest. But I would have to imagine that a large majority who buy the disclosed books, do not mention it upon resale ( not counting the microcosm that is the boards ) and the disclosure falls by the wayside.

 

Not to mention the majority of collectors out there who either a) don't know what pressing is or b) don't care

 

Actually the reason people don't want to proactive disclose is it removes two potential class of buyers.

1. Those that don't want pressed books because they don't like pressed books

2. Those that don't want pressed books because they have less chance of upgrading themselves by pressing, etc.

 

People would have you believe the total in category 1 is about 2 for the entire world.

[Logan510]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

 

IMHO, disclosing is fools gold. I admire the people who do it because they're being honest. But I would have to imagine that a large majority who buy the disclosed books, do not mention it upon resale ( not counting the microcosm that is the boards ) and the disclosure falls by the wayside.

 

Not to mention the majority of collectors out there who either a) don't know what pressing is or b) don't care

 

Actually the reason people don't want to proactive disclose is it removes two potential class of buyers.

1. Those that don't want pressed books because they don't like pressed books

2. Those that don't want pressed books because they have less chance of upgrading themselves by pressing, etc.

 

People would have you believe the total in category 1 is about 2 for the entire world.

 

Those are factors, but have little to do with what I said.

[oakman29]

Time for a musical interlude.

 

[slym2none]

Is there any other stigma to a pressed book other than it being pressed? I mean, are there any possible long-term detrimental effects on a book that has been pressed? IDK if any chemicals are involved, but if there are, can that be harmful to the books? What if I buy a CGC 6.0 X-Men #1 only to have it fall apart in the slab 10 years down the road due to damage to the book that no one ever thought could happen 10 years ago when it was being pressed?

 

Pardon if I am talking out of my , as I said, I really don't know the process of pressing. But I do know that yes, paranoia of such things (not just what I mentioned above, only using that as a big example) makes me leery of ever buying older comics ever again.

 

Also, let me add this for no reason at all - I sold a copy of X-Men #63 (1968) raw to a boardie that I think is 9.2 right now. Would I like to see this end up in a CGC slab? That really doesn't matter to me. Would I like to hear this was pressed into 9.4 or 9.6 before slabbing? No, I wouldn't - but after I sold it, it is no longer my business. Now, would I like to see it stay in its original unpressed condition?

 

You betcha.

 

 

 

-slym

[BeachBum]

Family site no more.

 

[originalisbest]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

It's not profitable? So you don't make money, and you sell to pressers who wreck the books and destroyed your love of high grade anyway? That's your argument?

 

I deserve to make a profit because of the amount of hard work I put in, because of the years of good deals I've made to build a rep, because of the transparency I bring to my dealings.

 

Now this is amusing. Are you the ultimate one to determine who is allowed to make profits, and how much, and in what way? My goodness.

[joeypost]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

It's not profitable? So you don't make money, and you sell to pressers who wreck the books and destroyed your love of high grade anyway? That's your argument?

 

I deserve to make a profit because of the amount of hard work I put in, because of the years of good deals I've made to build a rep, because of the transparency I bring to my dealings.

 

As do I.