What does PRESSING IT OUT mean exactly?

[skypinkblu]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

 

IMHO, disclosing is fools gold. I admire the people who do it because they're being honest. But I would have to imagine that a large majority who buy the disclosed books, do not mention it upon resale ( not counting the microcosm that is the boards ) and the disclosure falls by the wayside.

 

Not to mention the majority of collectors out there who either a) don't know what pressing is or b) don't care

 

I prefer to think that if I'm honest, that the next person will be too,and there are many more people here who follow that pattern than you think. Many of those people just happen to be quieter.

 

As for understanding what it is? You are probably right for a lot of people on eBay. I sure never heard of it before I got here. But once people told me what it was, I learned.

 

So, I would think if there is nothing wrong with the practice, that the next person wouldn't mind EXPLAINING the process in...let's say their auctions, and then MORE people would understand. It might even snowball and EVERYONE would understand...

 

But then, some people might lose some kind of perceived advantage, wouldn't they?

 

In my mind there are a group of people who think they are just brilliant by discovering a way to make money...that's fine, as long as they don't have to hide it, because once you have to hide something...there is something less pretty about the process.

 

 

 

[bb8]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

[Logan510]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

 

IMHO, disclosing is fools gold. I admire the people who do it because they're being honest. But I would have to imagine that a large majority who buy the disclosed books, do not mention it upon resale ( not counting the microcosm that is the boards ) and the disclosure falls by the wayside.

 

Not to mention the majority of collectors out there who either a) don't know what pressing is or b) don't care

 

I prefer to think that if I'm honest, that the next person will be too,and there are many more people here who follow that pattern than you think. Many of those people just happen to be quieter.

 

As for understanding what it is? You are probably right for a lot of people on eBay. I sure never heard of it before I got here. But once people told me what it was, I learned.

 

So, I would think if there is nothing wrong with the practice, that the next person wouldn't mind EXPLAINING the process in...let's say their auctions, and then MORE people would understand. It might even snowball and EVERYONE would understand...

 

But then, some people might lose some kind of perceived advantage, wouldn't they?

 

In my mind there are a group of people who think they are just brilliant by discovering a way to make money...that's fine, as long as they don't have to hide it, because once you have to hide something...there is something less pretty about the process.

 

 

 

 

I get what you're saying. Do you think CLink will ever disclose pressing?

[skypinkblu]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

It's not just the "known" pressers. Many of them are quite honest about disclosure...that's usually, part of the reason they are "known".

 

I think it's the UNKNOWN pressers, the one who don't disclose who are the problem for people looking to buy or sell unpressed books.

 

I keep saying the same thing...over and over, if there is nothing to hide, why not disclose :shrug:

 

because there is something to hide

 

IMHO, disclosing is fools gold. I admire the people who do it because they're being honest. But I would have to imagine that a large majority who buy the disclosed books, do not mention it upon resale ( not counting the microcosm that is the boards ) and the disclosure falls by the wayside.

 

Not to mention the majority of collectors out there who either a) don't know what pressing is or b) don't care

 

I prefer to think that if I'm honest, that the next person will be too,and there are many more people here who follow that pattern than you think. Many of those people just happen to be quieter.

 

As for understanding what it is? You are probably right for a lot of people on eBay. I sure never heard of it before I got here. But once people told me what it was, I learned.

 

So, I would think if there is nothing wrong with the practice, that the next person wouldn't mind EXPLAINING the process in...let's say their auctions, and then MORE people would understand. It might even snowball and EVERYONE would understand...

 

But then, some people might lose some kind of perceived advantage, wouldn't they?

 

In my mind there are a group of people who think they are just brilliant by discovering a way to make money...that's fine, as long as they don't have to hide it, because once you have to hide something...there is something less pretty about the process.

 

 

 

 

I get what you're saying. Do you think CLink will ever disclose pressing?

 

Who knows, I'm still waiting for them to keep the prices available after the auctions, .

[Davenport]

Actually the reason people don't want to proactive disclose is it removes two potential class of buyers.

1. Those that don't want pressed books because they don't like pressed books

2. Those that don't want pressed books because they have less chance of upgrading themselves by pressing, etc.

 

People would have you believe the total in category 1 is about 2 for the entire world.

Slightly different take...

The reason people don't want to proactive disclose is it removes two potential class of buyers.

1. Those that don't enjoy sellers pizzing on their shoes while telling 'em it's raining.

2. Rainmakers

 

[originalisbest]

Poor dav. In your world it seems to always be raining. In mine, the sun occasionally shines!

[Flaming_Telepath]

Serious question. How do you feel about the unmanipulated books you sell as a dealer to people you know to have books pressed?

 

Not exactly happy, but there's a difference between stopping collecting and having to find something else to fill in your spare time, or stopping selling to them and having no food on the table.

 

So it's cool to profit off of guys who will press the books you sell them, but not cool for them to do the actual pressing. Got it. What if they need food on the table too? Destroying the hobby would get much harder if people would stop selling to known pressers, wouldn't it?

 

I sell under-graded, unmanipulated raw books to pressers, who turn my 8.5s into 9.6s...and I'm the profiteer?

 

It's not profitable? So you don't make money, and you sell to pressers who wreck the books and destroyed your love of high grade anyway? That's your argument?

 

I deserve to make a profit because of the amount of hard work I put in, because of the years of good deals I've made to build a rep, because of the transparency I bring to my dealings.

 

Now this is amusing. Are you the ultimate one to determine who is allowed to make profits, and how much, and in what way? My goodness.

 

Could somebody please point out where I said that pressers were evil and didn't deserve to make a profit?

 

This all started because I stated why I left collecting.

 

End of.

 

I have not accused pressers of being immoral, or being unworthy of earning a living.

 

I said that pressing had taken the magic away from collecting for me - so I stopped.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

 

Yes, this is the case.

 

To date, no one has been able to find a technology capable of detecting it, and not for the lack of trying. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy here.

 

Having said that, I DO believe there are collectors who would pay a premium for an unpressed book if a cost effective method of detecting pressing were available.

[bb8]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

 

Yes, this is the case.

 

To date, no one has been able to find a technology capable of detecting it, and not for the lack of trying. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy here.

 

Having said that, I DO believe there are collectors who would pay a premium for an unpressed book if a cost effective method of detecting pressing were available.

So what efforts have been made that have failed? Are there studies I can look up/threads to read (I'm being serious, I really would be curious as to failed detection methods).

 

Seems it wouldn't be that hard on mid-grade comics that have been pressed. You can just look at a comic with almost-color-breaking-creases and other VGish traits that have been pancaked. Maybe not so easy with high-grade, already good-looking-to-begin-with books?

[MCMiles]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

 

Yes, this is the case.

 

To date, no one has been able to find a technology capable of detecting it, and not for the lack of trying. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy here.

 

Having said that, I DO believe there are collectors who would pay a premium for an unpressed book if a cost effective method of detecting pressing were available.

 

It's a lot easier to find clues to suggest a book has not been pressed, then it is to suggest it has. An unpressed book will likely have "pressable defects", and defects that are commonly seen in "virgin books" such as the overlay on the top edge of most Marvels. I know that sounds too simple, but it is that simple. Of course, I'm sure someone could be manipulative enough to add a minor defect.

 

An expertly pressed book should have no clues. This is even harder to detect as the grade goes higher and higher, because less work is done. Even where pressing is suspect, ie: a flat or "pancaked spine" it can not be proven if that happened yesterday in a dry mount press or over the last twenty years in an overstuffed long box.

 

Of course any "pristine" book would be suspect of being pressed at this point.

[Davenport]

Poor dav. In your world it seems to always be raining. In mine, the sun occasionally shines!

Quite the opposite. I can't express how blessed I feel to have collected. And now is a truly unimaginable time for fandom.

Comics are literally everywhere. A fan can immerse themselves in any aspect of comics anytime they want. History, artists, eras, publishers, title runs, characters, universes...

 

All joy, bro. Any way you slice it.

 

Appreciate the concern though. (thumbs u

[BeachBum]

[originalisbest]

Poor dav. In your world it seems to always be raining. In mine, the sun occasionally shines!

Quite the opposite. I can't express how blessed I feel to have collected. And now is a truly unimaginable time for fandom.

Comics are literally everywhere. A fan can immerse themselves in any aspect of comics anytime they want. History, artists, eras, publishers, title runs, characters, universes...

 

All joy, bro. Any way you slice it.

 

Appreciate the concern though. (thumbs u

 

, I'm sure you do!

[DiceX]

 

(thumbs u

 

 

[Davenport]

[delekkerste]

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

So Roy, no one has told you why your straw man argument doesn't work? Let me give it a go:

 

First, let's start with the obvious. Unless EVERYBODY is willing to pay up for unpressed books and does, in fact, buy up EVERY book out there, your argument simply wouldn't work. Let's say me, Bob, Tim, Nick, etc. are all willing ot pay up for unpressed books. Well, there are only so many books we can buy. Everything else is going to be pressed. Heck, why would sellers even bother catering to guys like us when they could just get pressing legitimized and tell us to "take it or leave it". Which is exactly what has happened.

 

Why would a seller try to convince a buyer to pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books when they could just go with the flow like everyone else and make pressing ubquitous and institutionalized? That way, all he has to do is pay his submission fee, get the higher grade and be assured of getting the $$$$ he wants. Furthermore, books are now pressed and manipulated over and over again to get multiple grade bumps. Are you really going to be able to convince someone to pay 9.6 prices for an unpressed 9.2? Or 9.2 prices for an unpressed 8.5? I have one friend who bought a 9.2 SA key, had it pressed multiple times along with a little clean job, and sold it for 6x his money as a 9.6. Why on earth would he play ball with what you are suggesting, Roy? Seriously, that is just a total smokescreen for what is going on in the hobby these days.

 

There is both option value AND a certainty equivalent achieved by pressing as opposed to trying to do what you propose. There is NO economic incentive to do what Nick is doing now. There is NO WAY people paying up for unpressed books would have halted pressing in its tracks.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

 

Yes, this is the case.

 

To date, no one has been able to find a technology capable of detecting it, and not for the lack of trying. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy here.

 

Having said that, I DO believe there are collectors who would pay a premium for an unpressed book if a cost effective method of detecting pressing were available.

So what efforts have been made that have failed? Are there studies I can look up/threads to read (I'm being serious, I really would be curious as to failed detection methods).

 

Seems it wouldn't be that hard on mid-grade comics that have been pressed. You can just look at a comic with almost-color-breaking-creases and other VGish traits that have been pancaked. Maybe not so easy with high-grade, already good-looking-to-begin-with books?

 

Just read through the pressing threads of the last couple of years. Lots of discussion about these attempts.

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

 

Yes, this is the case.

 

To date, no one has been able to find a technology capable of detecting it, and not for the lack of trying. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy here.

 

Having said that, I DO believe there are collectors who would pay a premium for an unpressed book if a cost effective method of detecting pressing were available.

 

It's a lot easier to find clues to suggest a book has not been pressed, then it is to suggest it has. An unpressed book will likely have "pressable defects", and defects that are commonly seen in "virgin books" such as the overlay on the top edge of most Marvels. I know that sounds too simple, but it is that simple. Of course, I'm sure someone could be manipulative enough to add a minor defect.

 

An expertly pressed book should have no clues. This is even harder to detect as the grade goes higher and higher, because less work is done. Even where pressing is suspect, ie: a flat or "pancaked spine" it can not be proven if that happened yesterday in a dry mount press or over the last twenty years in an overstuffed long box.

 

Of course any "pristine" book would be suspect of being pressed at this point.

 

But you could never rule out that a book had once been pressed, even decades ago, and then acquired new defects from storage, handling, encapsulation, SCS, etc.

[originalisbest]

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.

 

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

 

Why is it not rational? It's economics 101.

 

High grade collectors pay for quality and always have. The more quality you want the more it costs. There's nothing odd about that is there? Paying more for an unpressed book is simply paying a premium for a quality that you are looking for on a book that goes into your collection.

 

It might be unorthodox but then so was pressing at one time. Times change and so do approaches.

 

High grade used to be mint on a G-F-M scale.

Then it became G-VG-F-VF-NM, and so on.

Now it's looking for NM unpressed books.

 

I'm really not trying to be glib about it at all and I mean it with the utmost respect, but the reality is that if those that dislike pressing were willing to pay "next grade" prices for that quality early on, there would be no room for someone to press it and make that money themselves. Nips it right in the bud.

 

It's simple economics. It makes the books more expensive but then when didn't quality rise in value?

 

 

 

 

Ah...I see where you were going with this now.

 

The marketplace does not reward unpressed books with higher prices, therefore collectors do not value this quality.

 

I think this is your point.

 

But I think this conclusion is obscured by the lack of ability to detect this quality. In other words, collectors won't pay more for a quality that cannot be detected. If pressing is not detectable, then neither is the lack of pressing.

 

Is this really the case? Or is it that little to no resources are being put into detection methods because of the money involved? Is there a current/former pro presser here who could comment on detecting pressing? I don't think there's anyone who would know better. Probably wouldn't comment because of, again, money, but I don't think it would be an impossible type of manipulation (be it 'restoration' or not, not trying to make that distinction) to detect if there were suitable motivatin.

 

Yes, this is the case.

 

To date, no one has been able to find a technology capable of detecting it, and not for the lack of trying. I don't believe for a minute that there is a conspiracy here.

 

Having said that, I DO believe there are collectors who would pay a premium for an unpressed book if a cost effective method of detecting pressing were available.

 

It's a lot easier to find clues to suggest a book has not been pressed, then it is to suggest it has. An unpressed book will likely have "pressable defects", and defects that are commonly seen in "virgin books" such as the overlay on the top edge of most Marvels. I know that sounds too simple, but it is that simple. Of course, I'm sure someone could be manipulative enough to add a minor defect.

 

An expertly pressed book should have no clues. This is even harder to detect as the grade goes higher and higher, because less work is done. Even where pressing is suspect, ie: a flat or "pancaked spine" it can not be proven if that happened yesterday in a dry mount press or over the last twenty years in an overstuffed long box.

 

Of course any "pristine" book would be suspect of being pressed at this point.

 

But you could never rule out that a book had once been pressed, even decades ago, and then acquired new defects from storage, handling, encapsulation, SCS, etc.

 

Exactly, so the really sneaky ones would have a book pressed, then introduce "just enough" non-grade affecting flaws to make it appear "virgin" - and so forth!

[slym2none]

My question must have gotten buried in the flurry of responses this thread is receiving -

 

Are there any chemicals used in the pressing process? If so, have they been studied for possible long-term detrimental effects on comic books?

 

 

 

 

-slym