What does PRESSING IT OUT mean exactly?

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

[Logan510]

Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

 

Man, do I disagree with this. None of us should be telling anyone how to collect. If searching out and finding very high grade books that have survived for years through preternatural care or blind luck is what floats a collectors boat, more power to them.

 

Also, if that were the main reason I collected, I would have punted, too.

 

How has pressing ruined that exactly? I have found thousands, THOUSANDS of untouched original owner books in the last year or two. All silver age, all high grade, all unmanipulated. I am not trying to tell people how to collect, I am saying that jettisoning an entire hobby because a small segment (slabbed high grade) has changed is unfortunate. These guys make it sound like every freaking silver age book above 9.0 has been ruined, and that's just not the case. It's just not as easy as it used to be to find what they are looking for and that has led to some serious bitterness.

 

It has ruined it for them. Isn't that enough? I personally don't care. But I am not going to put my thoughts on the matter onto them. Gene and Nick and Tim Hui and lots of guys who went early and often into the UHG SA pool had their toys taken by the pressing game. There is no doubt about it. When you can crete a 9.4 or 9.6 with the right 9.0 or 9.2, it is game over.

 

High grade silver doesn't magically materialize in the ComicLink broom closet every fortnight. The amount of silver that hasn't been in circulation since they were purchased off the rack is astounding. If I can find them, they can find them.

 

If that's your theory - go find it - that's great. But in the time that I have been collecting, pressing has gone from a resto technique I had never heard of, to a "non-resto" technique that has dry mount presses in the top 100 huttest Ebay items.

 

Again, I don't care. I have had many of my books pressed. It is what it is. I just think it is silly to tell someone to go collect mid-grade Silver or trades when a huge part of their love of the hobby is unmolested gems. It smacks of pro-presser stalking horse.

 

My original post included the option for them to go find their own off the rack collections if high grade is the big draw. Posts that bemoan the loss of all high grade books smacks of the opposite. Anti-pressers who conveniently overlook other options for finding the comics they want outside of slabs and big auctions. Tim gets a pass obviously because of geography, maybe Nick as well to a slightly lesser degree, but those of us in the US have a wealth of opportunities for finding books at the source.

 

Not my idea of a hobby. YMMV.

 

 

So is your problem that these guys can't easily find what they're looking for or that Andy doesn't really care that much?

 

I think it is to tell the guys that feel stung by the proliferation of pressing to collect mid grade books or go buy some Essentials.

 

I don't think that's exactly what he said

[arexcrooke]

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

[Logan510]

Adapt? Why should I have to adapt.

 

 

The cat is out of the bag, it's either adapt or move on. This is a bell that can't be unrung.

[october]

 

I think it is to tell the guys that feel stung by the proliferation of pressing to collect mid grade books or go buy some Essentials.

 

Or to get their hands dirty and find another source besides slabs and a few big auction houses. Christ, you barely even have to do that. Nick had that gigantic collection a few years back that came from an OO in the military, Burntboy sold loads of beautiful unmanipulated books, other posters have brought collections to market and would disclose if books were pressed. It's not that difficult, and if people think it is they need to look a little harder.

[namisgr]

If everyone collecting high grade unpressed comics could find them from original owners, then they would. It certainly wasn't difficult in the days before CGC, when dealers with the time and connections to turn up such collections did so, and then offered the books to collectors undoctored. Now, folks like Andy who can turn up such unmanipulated gem collections are the exception rather than the rule, and most of the books never make it to market before being doctored.

 

Rampant pressing has had consequences for the high grade market, contributing to the weakening of prices for the vast majority of high grade Silver and Bronze and potentially to the long-term health of the hobby. Some avid collectors have left or are in the process of leaving the market. Not only are they no longer buying, but the selling of their collections has added to the market glut. I'm one of them. Others considering becoming big buyers have decided to stay on the sidelines.

 

 

[arexcrooke]

Adapt? Why should I have to adapt.

 

 

The cat is out of the bag, it's either adapt or move on. This is a bell that can't be unrung.

And unfortunately for some people that rung bell has really harmed their enjoyment of the hobby. I get that. I wish it werent so, but wishing it dont make the issue go away.

 

 

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

You mean, buying a book specifically to save it from the pressers?

[oakman29]

Adapt? Why should I have to adapt.

 

 

The cat is out of the bag, it's either adapt or move on. This is a bell that can't be unrung.

So my only other alternative is to go with manipulated books because the cats out of the bag?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

 

Man, do I disagree with this. None of us should be telling anyone how to collect. If searching out and finding very high grade books that have survived for years through preternatural care or blind luck is what floats a collectors boat, more power to them.

 

Also, if that were the main reason I collected, I would have punted, too.

 

How has pressing ruined that exactly? I have found thousands, THOUSANDS of untouched original owner books in the last year or two. All silver age, all high grade, all unmanipulated. I am not trying to tell people how to collect, I am saying that jettisoning an entire hobby because a small segment (slabbed high grade) has changed is unfortunate. These guys make it sound like every freaking silver age book above 9.0 has been ruined, and that's just not the case. It's just not as easy as it used to be to find what they are looking for and that has led to some serious bitterness.

 

Andy, can you point out for me which high grade SA slabbed Marvels currently on the market are entirely unmanipulated so that I can continue collecting in the way that I want?

 

Thanks in advance. (thumbs u

 

Why does the "market" always consist of a few auction houses? Find someone who collected off the rack and buy their collection. Yes, it's more difficult than just sitting behind a screen and buying from Heritage every week, but it's far from impossible.

 

Yeah, I suppose I could buy here in the Marketplace?

 

Oh, wait a minute...

[arexcrooke]

Adapt? Why should I have to adapt.

 

 

The cat is out of the bag, it's either adapt or move on. This is a bell that can't be unrung.

So my only other alternative is to go with manipulated books because the cats out of the bag?

No, you can continue to look for, purchase from dealers who disclose, books that arent pressed.

 

[seanfingh]

Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

 

Man, do I disagree with this. None of us should be telling anyone how to collect. If searching out and finding very high grade books that have survived for years through preternatural care or blind luck is what floats a collectors boat, more power to them.

 

Also, if that were the main reason I collected, I would have punted, too.

 

How has pressing ruined that exactly? I have found thousands, THOUSANDS of untouched original owner books in the last year or two. All silver age, all high grade, all unmanipulated. I am not trying to tell people how to collect, I am saying that jettisoning an entire hobby because a small segment (slabbed high grade) has changed is unfortunate. These guys make it sound like every freaking silver age book above 9.0 has been ruined, and that's just not the case. It's just not as easy as it used to be to find what they are looking for and that has led to some serious bitterness.

 

It has ruined it for them. Isn't that enough? I personally don't care. But I am not going to put my thoughts on the matter onto them. Gene and Nick and Tim Hui and lots of guys who went early and often into the UHG SA pool had their toys taken by the pressing game. There is no doubt about it. When you can crete a 9.4 or 9.6 with the right 9.0 or 9.2, it is game over.

 

High grade silver doesn't magically materialize in the ComicLink broom closet every fortnight. The amount of silver that hasn't been in circulation since they were purchased off the rack is astounding. If I can find them, they can find them.

 

If that's your theory - go find it - that's great. But in the time that I have been collecting, pressing has gone from a resto technique I had never heard of, to a "non-resto" technique that has dry mount presses in the top 100 huttest Ebay items.

 

Again, I don't care. I have had many of my books pressed. It is what it is. I just think it is silly to tell someone to go collect mid-grade Silver or trades when a huge part of their love of the hobby is unmolested gems. It smacks of pro-presser stalking horse.

 

My original post included the option for them to go find their own off the rack collections if high grade is the big draw. Posts that bemoan the loss of all high grade books smacks of the opposite. Anti-pressers who conveniently overlook other options for finding the comics they want outside of slabs and big auctions. Tim gets a pass obviously because of geography, maybe Nick as well to a slightly lesser degree, but those of us in the US have a wealth of opportunities for finding books at the source.

 

Not my idea of a hobby. YMMV.

 

 

So is your problem that these guys can't easily find what they're looking for or that Andy doesn't really care that much?

 

I think it is to tell the guys that feel stung by the proliferation of pressing to collect mid grade books or go buy some Essentials.

 

I don't think that's exactly what he said

 

It is exactly what he said, other than go dig up OO collections.

[namisgr]

Not only is it irrational, it's false. One of the primary reasons why new pedigree collections fetch premium prices when they first come to market is the supposition (that no longer holds, sadly) that most of the books have yet to be pressed. While some have used the marketing of new pedigrees as opportunities to buy stock for pressing, upgrading, and flipping, others who prefer unpressed comics for their collections have also ponied up record prices to acquire them.

[arexcrooke]

Adapt? Why should I have to adapt.

 

 

The cat is out of the bag, it's either adapt or move on. This is a bell that can't be unrung.

So my only other alternative is to go with manipulated books because the cats out of the bag?

No, you can continue to look for, purchase from dealers who disclose, books that arent pressed.

But I do understand that the conundrum you face in collecting in the new environment.

[seanfingh]

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

You mean, buying a book specifically to save it from the pressers?

 

Yeah that is what he is talking about. Providing an adequate dower for the virgin books, before they are deflowered by the pressers.

[october]

Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

 

Man, do I disagree with this. None of us should be telling anyone how to collect. If searching out and finding very high grade books that have survived for years through preternatural care or blind luck is what floats a collectors boat, more power to them.

 

Also, if that were the main reason I collected, I would have punted, too.

 

How has pressing ruined that exactly? I have found thousands, THOUSANDS of untouched original owner books in the last year or two. All silver age, all high grade, all unmanipulated. I am not trying to tell people how to collect, I am saying that jettisoning an entire hobby because a small segment (slabbed high grade) has changed is unfortunate. These guys make it sound like every freaking silver age book above 9.0 has been ruined, and that's just not the case. It's just not as easy as it used to be to find what they are looking for and that has led to some serious bitterness.

 

It has ruined it for them. Isn't that enough? I personally don't care. But I am not going to put my thoughts on the matter onto them. Gene and Nick and Tim Hui and lots of guys who went early and often into the UHG SA pool had their toys taken by the pressing game. There is no doubt about it. When you can crete a 9.4 or 9.6 with the right 9.0 or 9.2, it is game over.

 

High grade silver doesn't magically materialize in the ComicLink broom closet every fortnight. The amount of silver that hasn't been in circulation since they were purchased off the rack is astounding. If I can find them, they can find them.

 

If that's your theory - go find it - that's great. But in the time that I have been collecting, pressing has gone from a resto technique I had never heard of, to a "non-resto" technique that has dry mount presses in the top 100 huttest Ebay items.

 

Again, I don't care. I have had many of my books pressed. It is what it is. I just think it is silly to tell someone to go collect mid-grade Silver or trades when a huge part of their love of the hobby is unmolested gems. It smacks of pro-presser stalking horse.

 

My original post included the option for them to go find their own off the rack collections if high grade is the big draw. Posts that bemoan the loss of all high grade books smacks of the opposite. Anti-pressers who conveniently overlook other options for finding the comics they want outside of slabs and big auctions. Tim gets a pass obviously because of geography, maybe Nick as well to a slightly lesser degree, but those of us in the US have a wealth of opportunities for finding books at the source.

 

Not my idea of a hobby. YMMV.

 

 

So is your problem that these guys can't easily find what they're looking for or that Andy doesn't really care that much?

 

I think it is to tell the guys that feel stung by the proliferation of pressing to collect mid grade books or go buy some Essentials.

 

I don't think that's exactly what he said

 

It is exactly what he said, other than go dig up OO collections.

 

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

[Flaming_Telepath]

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

'Course it isn't...

 

But hey, give some other well-known sellers the opportunity to make even more money, this time on 'what might bes'.

[arexcrooke]

Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

 

Man, do I disagree with this. None of us should be telling anyone how to collect. If searching out and finding very high grade books that have survived for years through preternatural care or blind luck is what floats a collectors boat, more power to them.

 

Also, if that were the main reason I collected, I would have punted, too.

 

How has pressing ruined that exactly? I have found thousands, THOUSANDS of untouched original owner books in the last year or two. All silver age, all high grade, all unmanipulated. I am not trying to tell people how to collect, I am saying that jettisoning an entire hobby because a small segment (slabbed high grade) has changed is unfortunate. These guys make it sound like every freaking silver age book above 9.0 has been ruined, and that's just not the case. It's just not as easy as it used to be to find what they are looking for and that has led to some serious bitterness.

 

It has ruined it for them. Isn't that enough? I personally don't care. But I am not going to put my thoughts on the matter onto them. Gene and Nick and Tim Hui and lots of guys who went early and often into the UHG SA pool had their toys taken by the pressing game. There is no doubt about it. When you can crete a 9.4 or 9.6 with the right 9.0 or 9.2, it is game over.

 

High grade silver doesn't magically materialize in the ComicLink broom closet every fortnight. The amount of silver that hasn't been in circulation since they were purchased off the rack is astounding. If I can find them, they can find them.

 

If that's your theory - go find it - that's great. But in the time that I have been collecting, pressing has gone from a resto technique I had never heard of, to a "non-resto" technique that has dry mount presses in the top 100 huttest Ebay items.

 

Again, I don't care. I have had many of my books pressed. It is what it is. I just think it is silly to tell someone to go collect mid-grade Silver or trades when a huge part of their love of the hobby is unmolested gems. It smacks of pro-presser stalking horse.

 

My original post included the option for them to go find their own off the rack collections if high grade is the big draw. Posts that bemoan the loss of all high grade books smacks of the opposite. Anti-pressers who conveniently overlook other options for finding the comics they want outside of slabs and big auctions. Tim gets a pass obviously because of geography, maybe Nick as well to a slightly lesser degree, but those of us in the US have a wealth of opportunities for finding books at the source.

 

Not my idea of a hobby. YMMV.

 

 

So is your problem that these guys can't easily find what they're looking for or that Andy doesn't really care that much?

 

I think it is to tell the guys that feel stung by the proliferation of pressing to collect mid grade books or go buy some Essentials.

 

I don't think that's exactly what he said

 

It is exactly what he said, other than go dig up OO collections.

 

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

I disagree Andy. I dont think it has much, if any, to do with convenience. But that the hobby that they loved and enjoyed has changed to the point that they can not enjoy it in the same way they did before.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Their argument boils down to being upset that they no longer enjoy the same level of convenience they once did for buying what they want. Forgive me if I don't sympathize overmuch.

 

'The same level of convenience'?

 

Just what drugs are you on?

[Ditch Fahrenheit]

One area where I think those that dislike pressing failed to act is when they decided that they wouldn't pay "next grade" prices for unpressed books. I've said it many times over the years but had never gotten a reply that I can remember. Had this happened, pressing wouldn't have been profitable, unpressed books would have been advertised as such and everyone would be happy.

 

There are at least two sides to the story.

 

 

I'm not following.

Pay more for a book because it is nice than the grade/preservation says its worth to keep others from buying it and pressing it.

I dont think the argument is grounded in rationality.

 

You mean, buying a book specifically to save it from the pressers?

 

Yeah that is what he is talking about. Providing an adequate dower for the virgin books, before they are deflowered by the pressers.

 

OK. I guess I did read it correctly then.