What does PRESSING IT OUT mean exactly?

[fantastic_four]

That just seems peculiar to me.

Never once in all the time I've posted here have I ever thought I was above any other adult on here to tell them how they should or shouldn't post on a board filled with primarily faceless acquaintances who share the same hobby.

I've agreed with people. I've disagreed with people. But anyone I've felt was driving their train off the side of a cliff, I've just waved as they went by.

I'm not beyond ego, but I guess I just don't have that level of pomposity to think I'm all knowing.

 

It is peculiar--not sure I really see others doing it as well. But I do prefer to scream "HEY, WATCH OUT FOR THAT CLIFF!" instead of letting them run off of it. Is it pompous? Maybe. It also means that I care. But he's been here for years, and he DOES have a lot to say, so I'd much prefer that he start saying it again. But I don't expect it to happen.

 

If I were to take it upon myself, to feel I needed to tell another adult, that their behavior was... from MY perspective, not... in agreement with MY perspective...

See, I can't. Even. Get. There...

Sorry man, it just doesn't feel right to me.

 

Then I'll get there for you--I think he should start posting again. He's smarter than most, so it'd be a boon if he did.

[Racer-X]

Pressing comics is a process where typically a dry mount press is used at low heat in conjunction with moisture, which helps relax the paper fibers, in order to remove bends, dents, and rolls from the books. Often the whole process can be completed in a matter of minutes.

 

Books with defects like the ones listed above that do not break color can be pressed into extremely high grade.

 

Pressing when done properly is extremely difficult to detect. Definitely difficult to detect on a consistent basis. The end result of dry mount pressing is also similar, if not identical, to the end result as if the book were stored in optimal and certain conditions (flat and under some amount of pressure) for a long period of time, which also makes it difficult for anyone to determine if a book has been pressed or not.

 

CGC has chosen not to consider pressing restoration. Most likely, because it can not be detected consistently, or determined if it was done intentionally by mechanical means or not. It's also believed that they choose not to because it helps continue to bring in more business. They often grade the same book two, three or more times, because they are purchased, cracked out, often pressed, and resubmitted in hopes of a higher grade.

 

Many consider pressing restoration, and by definition it is. It's a process of removing defects, which restores a book to a state closer to which it was when it was manufactured.

 

Many do not consider it restoration. Probably, because as mentioned, the same results can be found naturally over a longer period of time. The logic there is: If you stored a book poorly and it gained defects because of poor storage, it would be down graded for it. ie: a stacking curl. Conversely, if you stored a book, that already had a stacking curl, flat enough and long enough to remove the curl, you would grade it in it's current state. Not down grading it for a curl that no longer exists.

 

Many consider pressing to be so non invasive that it really doesn't bother them. Some are completely turned off by it, and don't want to own any books that have been pressed. For this reason, disclosure is a hot topic. Most believe that the information should be disclosed to any potential buyers. Many believe that information should be pro-active. Many care very little about pressing, and just don't care to ask or keep track. Some use the logic that "CGC doesn't mind it, I don't mind it, so if someone that does mind it wants to know, then they should ask."

 

Without a doubt. Pressing makes pretty books. It also goes without saying that the driving force behind the popularity of pressing is the possible financial gains to be made form the process. Perhaps, also, it's acceptance is rooted in the fact that it is very non invasive and does make a good product with all original material (nothing physically added or taken away). As an example you will find the comic community less divided on issues of tape and a newer result of pressing being referred to as "spine re-alignment therepy". Those are widely frowned upon.

 

There are many debates on pressing and disclosure that can be found here on the CGC chat boards.

 

Superb, MC...superb!

[RockMyAmadeus]

There's no point in fighting you--you're beyond saving. I wish that it weren't so.

 

He's just fine the way he is.

 

Does anyone prefer him posting in emoticons and pictures, or would we all prefer

 

PS. Stop speaking for anyone but yourself. You are not the board spokesman, and you do not know what "we" all would prefer, so kindly stop presenting your opinions of others as if they are, or should be, held by everyone. Thank you.

 

It was a question, which explicitly means I was interested in a response to it--and I was. If people do prefer you using emoticons instead of words, I'm curious as to why.

 

[Mark 1]

Yes

[Davenport]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

Damn. Nothing to argue with here either.

That makes two top-tier posts in one thread. So who passed out the phenobarbital toady?

This much truth in one sitting is disorienting.

[DiceX]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

 

Boom!

 

+Boom!

 

 

[stroszek]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

 

[Logan510]

The only way to avoid having part of a larger point being taken out of context is to never say anything at all. It isn't a speaker's fault for saying something that can be snipped up and taken out of context, it's the fault of the person who trimmed the context to begin with.

 

I hope you will be as diligent in paroling other threads as I see "selective quoting" transgressions by the thousands on here. Get to work!

 

, I mostly hang in the Water Cooler these days fighting the biased.

 

 

There's no point in fighting you--you're beyond saving. I wish that it weren't so.

 

He's just fine the way he is.

 

 

I wish he'd be a little quicker in finding a couple of books

[DWL]

Indeed, two top-tier and informative posts in one thread is refreshing to see.

 

I thought for sure a question of this nature posted by a new member would result in nothing but "tre fiddy" and pictures of waffle irons.

[slym2none]

CGC has chosen not to consider pressing restoration. Most likely, because it can not be detected consistently, or determined if it was done intentionally by mechanical means or not. It's also believed that they choose not to because it helps continue to bring in more business. They often grade the same book two, three or more times, because they are purchased, cracked out, often pressed, and resubmitted in hopes of a higher grade.

 

Many consider pressing restoration, and by definition it is. It's a process of removing defects, which restores a book to a state closer to which it was when it was manufactured.

 

 

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't pick out the part you like and quote it because that may not be my opinion.

 

That doesn't make much sense.

 

There's an entire "out of context" thread in CG dedicated to the concept of taking a small part of a larger, more complete, quote and thus changing the meaning to what it would be when left in context.

 

I imagine that is that he is referring to, even though that thread is usually regarding innuendo.

 

Sorry 'bout that...

 

 

 

 

-slym

[gyro-1]

should I go back and read any of this thread ?

[slym2none]

There's no point in fighting you--you're beyond saving. I wish that it weren't so.

 

He's just fine the way he is.

 

Does anyone prefer him posting in emoticons and pictures, or would we all prefer to see him post his thoughtful analysis of issues again without his fervor constantly getting him into fights?

 

It works both ways. You can't lay all the blame at his feet.

 

I agree with you totally, Jeffro. I know in the bad times RMA & I have had, I am certain that I have been on the "wrong" side of our arguments a lot. And despite how I treated him when I left a couple years back, he welcomed me back with "open arms."

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Flaming_Telepath]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

 

Superb stuff, Gene.

 

I bought my first comic in 1969 and started collecting in 1973. Roll forward thirty-five years to 2008 and I completely stopped and sold everything, because as you say above, 'the magic was gone', stripped away by greed and vanity.

 

People wonder why I remain fiercely vocal about 'manipulation' and the associated shenanigans and fraud.

 

Because you robbed me of a hobby that I loved - and I had zero say in the matter. Cheers!

[THE_BEYONDER]

The lamest part of all is that the CGC holder doesn't necessarily even preserve the condition of the book that was submitted. Even the most fundamental aspect of encapsulation is a failure.

[ThoseBackPages]

[october]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

 

Superb stuff, Gene.

 

I bought my first comic in 1969 and started collecting in 1973. Roll forward thirty-five years to 2008 and I completely stopped and sold everything, because as you say above, 'the magic was gone', stripped away by greed and vanity.

 

People wonder why I remain fiercely vocal about 'manipulation' and the associated shenanigans and fraud.

 

Because you robbed me of a hobby that I loved - and I had zero say in the matter. Cheers!

 

I never understood, and will never understand, why people have completely given up on the hobby due to pressing. Why? Because some high grade specimens have been manipulated? So what? Was nothing else about this hobby compelling other than the prospect of owning some untouched book? If high grade slabs are ruined, collect something else. Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

I guess I don't have much sympathy for "I took my ball and wen't home" posts. I know it would take more than that to get me to quit something I loved. At the core of all of this is the art, stories, nostalgia, history and general awesomeness of what we choose to like. If you let a dry mount press take all of that away.....well.....seems like you are throwing more than one baby out with the bathwater to me.

[mrmyst]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

 

Superb stuff, Gene.

 

I bought my first comic in 1969 and started collecting in 1973. Roll forward thirty-five years to 2008 and I completely stopped and sold everything, because as you say above, 'the magic was gone', stripped away by greed and vanity.

 

People wonder why I remain fiercely vocal about 'manipulation' and the associated shenanigans and fraud.

 

Because you robbed me of a hobby that I loved - and I had zero say in the matter. Cheers!

 

I never understood, and will never understand, why people have completely given up on the hobby due to pressing. Why? Because some high grade specimens have been manipulated? So what? Was nothing else about this hobby compelling other than the prospect of owning some untouched book? If high grade slabs are ruined, collect something else. Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

I guess I don't have much sympathy for "I took my ball and wen't home" posts. I know it would take more than that to get me to quit something I loved. At the core of all of this is the art, stories, nostalgia, history and general awesomeness of what we choose to like. If you let a dry mount press take all of that away.....well.....seems like you are throwing more than one baby out with the bathwater to me.

[seanfingh]

Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

 

Man, do I disagree with this. None of us should be telling anyone how to collect. If searching out and finding very high grade books that have survived for years through preternatural care or blind luck is what floats a collectors boat, more power to them.

 

Also, if that were the main reason I collected, I would have punted, too.

[arexcrooke]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and/or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time, you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003, and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, artificial edge aging, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. NO book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

Deal in hyperbole much?

Gateway drug for:

microtrimming?

Artificial edge aging? :naughty:

popping out staples?

 

Look, I get that you and many others dont like pressing. I understand. Honestly I do.

But to say that pressing has some mystical, half drug induced idocy that leads people into doing the three things above is, at best disingenuous.

 

I realize that little I say will probably have any meaning to you and I am ok with that. You are just as right to believe the way you do as I am to believe, or anyone else is to believe in their way. But to make the leap of logic that pressing is the cause of things as you laid out above is not a logical leap one can make.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Wow. This should be stickied so it doesn't get lost.

 

Any thoughts on other 'non-additive' controversies? Disassembly and such?

 

I take some issue with the notion that "Pressing, without a doubt, makes pretty books." To me, it creates a lot of books that look unnaturally flat. I remember buying books off the racks back in the day, and by virtue of the way they were standing up, they were never perfectly flat. Others have told me about how pressing sometimes leads to greater translucency and or leaves subtle transfer stains. Some of the biggest pressers around readily tell me that they can almost always tell when a book has been pressed. Who started this fiction that you can't tell? I'll tell you who: pressers. Maybe you can't tell 100% of the time, but most of the time you can.

 

I remember back when Ewert was selling unnaturally squashed books on eBay back in maybe 2003 and me and Joe Collector were calling the books out for all being pressed. Because they all obviously were. You remember what people said back then? "No way could one man be pressing that many books, and why would he? Consider the time, cost and risks involved." Now we know that it takes minimal time, minimal cost and minimal risk to press a book. I hate to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

 

Another great fiction was, "Pressing can only improve certain defects, so only certain books will be pressed." WRONG!!! I was just IM-ing two nights ago with a friend of mine who is a big presser. He told me he got a great looking copy of a certain DC key. He told me that it didn't have any defects he could see that could be improved by pressing. You know what I said? "BUT, YOU'RE GOING TO PRESS IT ANYWAY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S NO DOWNSIDE TO FRESHENING IT UP A LITTLE BIT." And his answer, even though he told me it was probably unimproveable? "OF COURSE".

 

Of course, pressing was just the gateway drug into further shenanigans - microtrimming, staple popping, solvent cleaning, spine realignment, etc. Remember when popping out staples was taboo? Now they're popped out all the time. Who cares if this spine realignment technique can be done without removing the staples. Do you think it actually is? I mean, there's no downside to popping out the staples, everybody does it, so why wouldn't they do it? And some of the before-and-after book scans that have been posted recently show clear evidence of solvent-based cleaning. You think these stains are being Wonder Breaded away (especially now that Hostess is in bankruptcy, )? I'm told by those in the know that cleaning with naphtha is now a common practice.

 

I'm sorry, but "disclosure" was always a big farce. All it takes is one person to buy a book and CPR (crack-press-resub) it for all the book's history and disclosure to be wiped away if someone chose to do so (as they inevitably would). If I was a CPR hustler, of course I'd say I support disclosure, knowing how easy it would be to circumvent the rules.

 

I used to marvel at old books in great condition that had survived the ravages of time. That's what made Pedigree-quality finds so special. Now any book can roll back time with a little naphtha Botox treatment and some time in the Pressing sauna. Even pedigree books are pressed as a matter of course. I guess those Gaines File Copies grading 9.6 just weren't pretty enough; let's see if we can get a 9.8! The magic is totally and utterly gone for me and others. No book impresses me anymore, because I know virtually every exceptional book has been worked on, even if it was allegedly "unimproveable". There is no downside. No one wants to take a chance they're leaving 0.2 of a grade on the table and all the money that means. FACT.

 

There is no rolling back time. The horse has left the barn and run the Kentucky Derby, there's no getting it back in; Pandora's Box has been open for a good decade (and yeah, people pressed books back in the day, but more books are probably pressed in a month or two these days than they were in the first 40 years of this hobby). Unfortunately, the hobby is what the hobby is. There's no going back. You all got the hobby you deserve. Congratulations.

 

Superb stuff, Gene.

 

I bought my first comic in 1969 and started collecting in 1973. Roll forward thirty-five years to 2008 and I completely stopped and sold everything, because as you say above, 'the magic was gone', stripped away by greed and vanity.

 

People wonder why I remain fiercely vocal about 'manipulation' and the associated shenanigans and fraud.

 

Because you robbed me of a hobby that I loved - and I had zero say in the matter. Cheers!

 

I never understood, and will never understand, why people have completely given up on the hobby due to pressing. Why? Because some high grade specimens have been manipulated? So what? Was nothing else about this hobby compelling other than the prospect of owning some untouched book? If high grade slabs are ruined, collect something else. Collect low grade silver. Collect moderns. Collect mid grade golden age. Collect trades. Pursue only original owner collections that you find in the wild. Enjoy books for their art and stories rather than the fact that they sat untouched in someone's attic for fifty years. There are hundreds of reasons to collect, and if one isn't as "pure" as it once was, choose another. Condition isn't THAT important, manipulated or otherwise.

 

I guess I don't have much sympathy for "I took my ball and wen't home" posts. I know it would take more than that to get me to quit something I loved. At the core of all of this is the art, stories, nostalgia, history and general awesomeness of what we choose to like. If you let a dry mount press take all of that away.....well.....seems like you are throwing more than one baby out with the bathwater to me.

 

Easy to dismiss when you profit from the practice Andy. You have financial incentive to let it slide.