CELEBRATE THE DOUBLE COVERS 21 21

[OtherEric]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:07 PM, Stronguy said:

I don't know if we discussed it here but I did talk to someone in the printing business and he said it's possible but improbable.  Covers are manually loaded into the bin for assembly.  Someone would have had to have loaded the Direct covers on top of the newsstand covers (not out of the ordinary) and the bottom cover of the Direct pile would have had to somehow stick to the top newsstand cover.

We know at least one direct-newsstand hybrid exists, but we've only seen the one here.  That's empirical evidence it can happen and, given the total number of double covers we've seen in the thread, an indication it's rare even among double covers. 

[OtherEric]

On 4/16/2022 at 2:28 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I think so, yes. 

What was five down again? 

Howler

[Stronguy]

On 4/16/2022 at 4:25 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

I've got a 100 Easy Crossword Puzzles cover attached to a Sgt. Fury book.  Anything is possible. 

I think that's more likely than 2 different version of a cover getting pulled.  Heck, I have a Many Ghost of Doctor Graves with Top Cat guts.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:29 PM, Stronguy said:

It's important to remember, possibility =/= probability, and possible absolutely =/= likely.  There would have to be a perfect storm for it to happen.  The feeder for the covers gets adjusted to control the feed and sometimes that gets out of whack, thus you get issues that are known for having multiple covers.  In this case, the feed adjustment would have to allowed for 2 covers to come out at just the right time.  Could that have happened, sure - but not probable.  Could there have been something on the bottom of the direct cover that stuck it to the top newsstand cover, maybe.  In fact that would be the most likely explanation IMO.

Yes, I agree. But millions and millions of comics have been printed. The improbable is going to happen every now and then. 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:30 PM, Stronguy said:

On 4/16/2022 at 5:25 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

I've got a 100 Easy Crossword Puzzles cover attached to a Sgt. Fury book.  Anything is possible. 

I think that's more likely than 2 different version of a cover getting pulled.  

Good call. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:30 PM, Stronguy said:

I think that's more likely than 2 different version of a cover getting pulled.  Heck, I have a Many Ghost of Doctor Graves with Top Cat guts.

Sounds like a good horror story - a disemboweled cat  

[Stronguy]

On 4/16/2022 at 4:31 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Yes, I agree. But millions and millions of comics have been printed. The improbable is going to happen. 

I'm guessing if it were possible to calculate the probability, with all the moving parts and stars that would have to align, it would be in billions.  However, there is one right there and OtherEric said it was sold shortly after it came out and wasn't being sold as such (which lends veracity).  It's like the CVP with an MJI -- it shouldn't exist yet one exists (and I'm still skeptical about it despite CGC verifying it).

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:36 PM, Stronguy said:

I'm guessing if it were possible to calculate the probability, with all the moving parts and stars that would have to align, it would be in billions.  However, there is one right there and OtherEric said it was sold shortly after it came out and wasn't being sold as such (which lends veracity).  It's like the CVP with an MJI -- it shouldn't exist yet one exists (and I'm still skeptical about it despite CGC verifying it).

Fun though. I like these oddities which break the rules. 

 

[cosmic-spider-man]

 Stronguy can I ask what the CVP with and MJI is I assume MJI in Mark Jewelers Insert but I can't figure out what CVP is and now I am curious.  

I am very skeptical of the News Stand on top of the Direct Market Cover too but if OtherEric got it the way he said it may very well be legit, I too have a Fantastic Four book with a DC cover on it so strange stuff happens. One Big question I have is How a Double Cover with the 2nd Cover at the Centerfold could ever happen, I don't know but i have seen several of those over the years and even a CGC graded one.  As for the News Stand over a Direct Market that is the only one I have ever seen or even heard of so if real it is very rare.  

[OtherEric]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:34 PM, cosmic-spider-man said:

 Stronguy can I ask what the CVP with and MJI is I assume MJI in Mark Jewelers Insert but I can't figure out what CVP is and now I am curious.  

I am very skeptical of the News Stand on top of the Direct Market Cover too but if OtherEric got it the way he said it may very well be legit, I too have a Fantastic Four book with a DC cover on it so strange stuff happens. One Big question I have is How a Double Cover with the 2nd Cover at the Centerfold could ever happen, I don't know but i have seen several of those over the years and even a CGC graded one.  As for the News Stand over a Direct Market that is the only one I have ever seen or even heard of so if real it is very rare.  

CPV is Canadian Price Variant, you got MJI right.

If the MJI's were for military bases in the US a CPV makes no sense... but as this thread proves, it's weird.

I'm leaning towards sending in the Newsstand/ Direct Market double to CGC once the turnaround times are shorter, I would love to get some expert assessments of its legitimacy. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 4/16/2022 at 7:41 PM, OtherEric said:

On 4/16/2022 at 7:34 PM, cosmic-spider-man said:

Stronguy can I ask what the CVP with and MJI is I assume MJI in Mark Jewelers Insert but I can't figure out what CVP is and now I am curious.  

I am very skeptical of the News Stand on top of the Direct Market Cover too but if OtherEric got it the way he said it may very well be legit, I too have a Fantastic Four book with a DC cover on it so strange stuff happens. One Big question I have is How a Double Cover with the 2nd Cover at the Centerfold could ever happen, I don't know but i have seen several of those over the years and even a CGC graded one.  As for the News Stand over a Direct Market that is the only one I have ever seen or even heard of so if real it is very rare.  

CPV is Canadian Price Variant, you got MJI right.

If the MJI's were for military bases in the US a CPV makes no sense... but as this thread proves, it's weird.

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 4/16/2022 at 4:34 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

Sounds like a good horror story - a disemboweled cat  

[JollyComics]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:43 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

No Tik Tok!

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:24 PM, JollyComics said:

No Tik Tok!

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/17/2022 at 1:41 AM, OtherEric said:

I'm leaning towards sending in the Newsstand/ Direct Market double to CGC once the turnaround times are shorter, I would love to get some expert assessments of its legitimacy. 

What do you think, Eric, looking at the book in hand?

There are lots of things to look for. Enlarged staple holes on the outer cover, where the alignment isn't perhaps quite there, staples looking odd / staples showing duress, a looseness, overhang, inconsistent handling wear etc.

If your book is tight, and perfectly cut, how likely is that:

1. Someone would have chosen this book anyway (cheap experiment copy?)
2. They would have found a newsstand and direct with near identical post cut staple placement...
3. ....and that that placement resulted in a near identical wrap for both covers
4. They would have constructed it without causing any damage / creasing

Would these two plucked from eBay line up perfectly, do you think, if you tried to place one cover over the other?

Add to that how you found it - unheralded, $3 and likely previously unowned.

CGC aren't the be all and end all - posts some more pictures / scans if you can and we can all have a crack at assessing it 

I had an ASM #361 with three covers once. I thought it was a construct, as there was one broken staple and the outer cover was slightly loose - those red flags didn't stop someone buying it though. They decided, if anything, that the damage was natural, thinking 'who would try to pass off a triple cover with a broken 'red flag' staple'? More likely it broke trying to penetrate three covers?

All good fun 

 

[cosmic-spider-man]

 I was very tempted to buy that 361 triple when you listed it but was very worried it might be a Frankenbook.

 

   How to tell if a Double Cover is real.

    1st.  Thing to look for is do both covers line up with no overhang from either inner or outer covers, top, bottom and Right edges.

   2nd. Does the staples look tight and the holes are not buggered up, the staples usually leave tiny indents at the centerfold make sure there is only one set of those dents and that the staples lay in those and also that there is no extra holes in the spine of the inner cover.  

   3rd. If the book has any dents or creases on the covers look at both and see if these match up, say there is a big thumb dent on the outer cover there is usually a smaller one on the inner cover in the exact same place, or dented corner or any defects. This will not always be true but it will help prove the case.

  4th. On older books the outer cover will usually be much more tanned on the inside than the inside cover will be, I have found this to be true on most all Golden, Silver & Bronze Age books.  

  5th. And if all this stuff above looks acceptable take a Magnifying Glass and look around all the edges, look for tiny imperfections in the cut edges and see if it they match up on all the pages and both covers, as the blades at the factory did not cut real smooth edges and leaves tiny hills and valleys, I find this to be the final answer if it is real or not. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 4/17/2022 at 3:41 PM, cosmic-spider-man said:

 I was very tempted to buy that 361 triple when you listed it but was very worried it might be a Frankenbook.

 

   How to tell if a Double Cover is real.

    1st.  Thing to look for is do both covers line up with no overhang from either inner or outer covers, top, bottom and Right edges.

   2nd. Does the staples look tight and the holes are not buggered up, the staples usually leave tiny indents at the centerfold make sure there is only one set of those dents and that the staples lay in those and also that there is no extra holes in the spine of the inner cover.  

   3rd. If the book has any dents or creases on the covers look at both and see if these match up, say there is a big thumb dent on the outer cover there is usually a smaller one on the inner cover in the exact same place, or dented corner or any defects. This will not always be true but it will help prove the case.

  4th. On older books the outer cover will usually be much more tanned on the inside than the inside cover will be, I have found this to be true on most all Golden, Silver & Bronze Age books.  

  5th. And if all this stuff above looks acceptable take a Magnifying Glass and look around all the edges, look for tiny imperfections in the cut edges and see if it they match up on all the pages and both covers, as the blades at the factory did not cut real smooth edges and leaves tiny hills and valleys, I find this to be the final answer if it is real or not. 

Our 'how to' lists are quite similar, there 

I purchased it at the London Comic Fair, quite cheaply as I recall. The dealer - one of the better ones, more into Gold than moderns - had noted the triple cover on the backing board but hadn't priced it accordingly. It clearly wasn't a thing for him. 

[OtherEric]

I'll try to get some better photos to share here in the next day or two... mandatory overtime at work is going to cut into my free time.  I don't even get extra pay for the holiday today!

[Get Marwood & I]

 

 

 

[Stronguy]

On 4/17/2022 at 4:39 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I had an ASM #361 with three covers once. I thought it was a construct, as there was one broken staple and the outer cover was slightly loose - those red flags didn't stop someone buying it though. They decided, if anything, that the damage was natural, thinking 'who would try to pass off a triple cover with a broken 'red flag' staple'? More likely it broke trying to penetrate three covers?

I've worked on many, many, many ASM 361s and what you describe is right on the money.  The cover attachment is really, really sloppy and the vast majority of the time at least 1 staple has a problem.  The QP on that book is horrible.  The first thing I would look for on a multi-cover version is the grabber marks on the bottom of the front/back cover.  Those would need to align but I suppose it's possible that the interior cover would not necessarily be perforated.