Heritage

[Bird]

I was looking at the BWS Iron Man page, I loved the image. I saw a somewhat comparable page (in my head/memory at least) for sale at the last comic art con priced at $7500,which I thought was high. What do those in the know think about the $5K price on this one: high, low, or just right? I decided to save my cash for comic link though, gotta go hard at one page there and try to make a big splash!

 

 

Nice page but I didn't expect it to go that high (And I know that $7500 page and agree it is priced too high)

 

Thanks for the reply, I got a bit lost in there! I appreciate your input.

[comicartman]

Anyone who collects John Buscema Conan would also know that having a Conan page with Belit in it is very desirable. Add Zula to the mix and you have a winner splash page as evidenced by the over $11k price tag it sold for. To me, the strong price on this splash affirms the earlier Conan #72 splash that sold last year on HA for over $9k. That splash also had Conan and Belit on it.

 

Buscema Conan #72 Splash

 

http://s23.postimg.org/pf6ukzlgr/conan72splash.jpg' alt='conan72splash.jpg'> screenshot pc[/img]

[drdroom]

I put a butter knife in my teeth and tried to shout "In and at them, brothers!". It didn't come out very well. Therefore I can't endorse this page.

Anyone who collects John Buscema Conan would also know that having a Conan page with Belit in it is very desirable. Add Zula to the mix and you have a winner splash page as evidenced by the over $11k price tag it sold for. To me, the strong price on this splash affirms the earlier Conan #72 splash that sold last year on HA for over $9k. That splash also had Conan and Belit on it.

 

Buscema Conan #72 Splash

 

http://s23.postimg.org/pf6ukzlgr/conan72splash.jpg' alt='conan72splash.jpg'> screenshot pc[/img]

[comix4fun]

Man, took a hit on the two Boris pieces I consigned. I expected to with "Barbarian Woman", as I bought it back when Boris paintings were still hard to find; a few years later, the floodgates opened and Heritage got dozens/hundreds of paintings for sale.

 

I'm surprised, though, to have lost money on that Conan movie poster prelim - it's super tight and super nice - can't believe the market says it's a <$2K piece! I mean, what else that cool can you buy for that price? Can't believe that's not even worth the $2.2K I paid years ago.

Don`t want to be mean, but anyone who buys Boris deserves to lose money.

 

 

Did ya ever notice, right after someone says "Not to be....." whatever they say right after that is incredibly what they wanted "Not to be"??

Given that Gene`s a good investor and has good taste in art (as evidenced by his Lichtenstein thread where he holds his own against the plebs), I was disappointed to find out that he even owns any Borises. They`re just so cheesy.

 

 

He held his own against the non-plebs in that thread too.

[comix4fun]

Just a few thoughts.

 

(1) Regarding the Conan #4 cover, I would have pegged FMV closer to $75K, but, given that this was the fresh, standout piece of art in the sale, I'm not surprised it did better than that.

 

(2) On the FF #58 page, all the pre-sale chatter I heard was between $40 and $60K, so $50K to me was right at consensus. A strong price, but not necessarily surprising to me.

 

(3) Boris for me is a nostalgia thing. I discovered Boris' painted paperback covers right about the time I discovered those old REH Conan paperbacks with the Frazetta covers - both about a year or two before I discovered comics. Also, a friend of mine got me Boris and his (ex-)wife's age-inappropriate, steamy book "Enchantment" as a gag gift for Christmas in 1984 (I own the cover to that book now), so that left a mark on my impressionable young mind back then as well. In any case, I think Boris did some very cool work back in the day. Cheesy? Yeah, probably, though the same could be said for most art from the genre.

 

(4) Dan, yes, Boris' work was once difficult to find (at least the better vintage 1982 and earlier material). At some point, though, Heritage came into possession (or a group did and consigned it to Heritage) of a trove of dozens or maybe even hundreds of Boris paintings which came pouring out onto the market starting probably around 2005 or 2006 (don't quote me on that; I might be off by a little) over many years. A lot of other paintings, for whatever reasons, also came onto the market from other collectors as well.

 

(5) I love Lichtenstein's work and am an admirer of a lot of Modern/Contemporary art in general. Yes, the M/C art market is deranged, yes, the art world is full of pompous blowhards, but, no, that doesn't make the art itself any less worthy. Free your mind and the rest will follow...

 

(6) Believe me, there was not a shred of any actual "hero worship" in Tim's post, though maybe you have to know him well to realize that. He was just laying down some soothing platitudes before tearing into the Boris fans and anti-Lichtenstein crowd here, like a velvet glove cast in iron! The prospect of a curmudgeonly throw-down between Ruben and Tim is kind of fascinating, though.

 

 

 

How can you not love Gene?

 

When you least expect it he cracks out an "En Vogue" reference from his vast musical lexicon.

 

 

 

[stinkininkin]

Just a few thoughts.

 

(1) Regarding the Conan #4 cover, I would have pegged FMV closer to $75K, but, given that this was the fresh, standout piece of art in the sale, I'm not surprised it did better than that.

 

(2) On the FF #58 page, all the pre-sale chatter I heard was between $40 and $60K, so $50K to me was right at consensus. A strong price, but not necessarily surprising to me.

 

(3) Boris for me is a nostalgia thing. I discovered Boris' painted paperback covers right about the time I discovered those old REH Conan paperbacks with the Frazetta covers - both about a year or two before I discovered comics. Also, a friend of mine got me Boris and his (ex-)wife's age-inappropriate, steamy book "Enchantment" as a gag gift for Christmas in 1984 (I own the cover to that book now), so that left a mark on my impressionable young mind back then as well. In any case, I think Boris did some very cool work back in the day. Cheesy? Yeah, probably, though the same could be said for most art from the genre.

 

(4) Dan, yes, Boris' work was once difficult to find (at least the better vintage 1982 and earlier material). At some point, though, Heritage came into possession (or a group did and consigned it to Heritage) of a trove of dozens or maybe even hundreds of Boris paintings which came pouring out onto the market starting probably around 2005 or 2006 (don't quote me on that; I might be off by a little) over many years. A lot of other paintings, for whatever reasons, also came onto the market from other collectors as well.

 

(5) I love Lichtenstein's work and am an admirer of a lot of Modern/Contemporary art in general. Yes, the M/C art market is deranged, yes, the art world is full of pompous blowhards, but, no, that doesn't make the art itself any less worthy. Free your mind and the rest will follow...

 

(6) Believe me, there was not a shred of any actual "hero worship" in Tim's post, though maybe you have to know him well to realize that. He was just laying down some soothing platitudes before tearing into the Boris fans and anti-Lichtenstein crowd here, like a velvet glove cast in iron! The prospect of a curmudgeonly throw-down between Ruben and Tim is kind of fascinating, though.

 

Regarding the FF 58 page, I don't think the price was high at all, relatively speaking. Peak Kirby/Sinnott period from one of if not best FF story lines, great action page, etc. And this may be an apples to oranges comparison, but shouldn't peak Kirby FF prices be at least equal to peak Ditko Spidey prices? Spidey is more popular than FF for sure, but in the OA world, I would think Kirby has a bigger following/fan base than Ditko, so that's an equalizer in my mind. All I'm saying is that if this FF page was instead a somewhat comparable Ditko Spidey page in quality, the price would have been much higher, and I don't quite get that. Feel free to disagree.

 

Scott

[comix4fun]

Just a few thoughts.

 

(1) Regarding the Conan #4 cover, I would have pegged FMV closer to $75K, but, given that this was the fresh, standout piece of art in the sale, I'm not surprised it did better than that.

 

(2) On the FF #58 page, all the pre-sale chatter I heard was between $40 and $60K, so $50K to me was right at consensus. A strong price, but not necessarily surprising to me.

 

(3) Boris for me is a nostalgia thing. I discovered Boris' painted paperback covers right about the time I discovered those old REH Conan paperbacks with the Frazetta covers - both about a year or two before I discovered comics. Also, a friend of mine got me Boris and his (ex-)wife's age-inappropriate, steamy book "Enchantment" as a gag gift for Christmas in 1984 (I own the cover to that book now), so that left a mark on my impressionable young mind back then as well. In any case, I think Boris did some very cool work back in the day. Cheesy? Yeah, probably, though the same could be said for most art from the genre.

 

(4) Dan, yes, Boris' work was once difficult to find (at least the better vintage 1982 and earlier material). At some point, though, Heritage came into possession (or a group did and consigned it to Heritage) of a trove of dozens or maybe even hundreds of Boris paintings which came pouring out onto the market starting probably around 2005 or 2006 (don't quote me on that; I might be off by a little) over many years. A lot of other paintings, for whatever reasons, also came onto the market from other collectors as well.

 

(5) I love Lichtenstein's work and am an admirer of a lot of Modern/Contemporary art in general. Yes, the M/C art market is deranged, yes, the art world is full of pompous blowhards, but, no, that doesn't make the art itself any less worthy. Free your mind and the rest will follow...

 

(6) Believe me, there was not a shred of any actual "hero worship" in Tim's post, though maybe you have to know him well to realize that. He was just laying down some soothing platitudes before tearing into the Boris fans and anti-Lichtenstein crowd here, like a velvet glove cast in iron! The prospect of a curmudgeonly throw-down between Ruben and Tim is kind of fascinating, though.

 

Regarding the FF 58 page, I don't think the price was high at all, relatively speaking. Peak Kirby/Sinnott period from one of if not best FF story lines, great action page, etc. And this may be an apples to oranges comparison, but shouldn't peak Kirby FF prices be at least equal to peak Ditko Spidey prices? Spidey is more popular than FF for sure, but in the OA world, I would think Kirby has a bigger following/fan base than Ditko, so that's an equalizer in my mind. All I'm saying is that if this FF page was instead a somewhat comparable Ditko Spidey page in quality, the price would have been much higher, and I don't quite get that. Feel free to disagree.

 

Scott

 

 

I don't disagree that the Kirby FF page was superb and worth every penny.

 

I think the price disparity between Ditko ASM and Kirby FF comes more from sheer volume of artwork created and available from Kirby FF than Ditko ASM. The quality and impact may be equal but the supply is much higher on Kirby FF.

[stinkininkin]

Man, took a hit on the two Boris pieces I consigned. I expected to with "Barbarian Woman", as I bought it back when Boris paintings were still hard to find; a few years later, the floodgates opened and Heritage got dozens/hundreds of paintings for sale.

 

I'm surprised, though, to have lost money on that Conan movie poster prelim - it's super tight and super nice - can't believe the market says it's a <$2K piece! I mean, what else that cool can you buy for that price? Can't believe that's not even worth the $2.2K I paid years ago.

Don`t want to be mean, but anyone who buys Boris deserves to lose money.

 

 

Did ya ever notice, right after someone says "Not to be....." whatever they say right after that is incredibly what they wanted "Not to be"??

Given that Gene`s a good investor and has good taste in art (as evidenced by his Lichtenstein thread where he holds his own against the plebs), I was disappointed to find out that he even owns any Borises. They`re just so cheesy.

 

Boris is cheesy? Compared to what? This is a Comic Book art board where the vast majority of art that is discussed and coveted is chock full of cheese. Cheesy-ness is not the hill I would want to defend in this debate!

 

Scott

[comix4fun]

Man, took a hit on the two Boris pieces I consigned. I expected to with "Barbarian Woman", as I bought it back when Boris paintings were still hard to find; a few years later, the floodgates opened and Heritage got dozens/hundreds of paintings for sale.

 

I'm surprised, though, to have lost money on that Conan movie poster prelim - it's super tight and super nice - can't believe the market says it's a <$2K piece! I mean, what else that cool can you buy for that price? Can't believe that's not even worth the $2.2K I paid years ago.

Don`t want to be mean, but anyone who buys Boris deserves to lose money.

 

 

Did ya ever notice, right after someone says "Not to be....." whatever they say right after that is incredibly what they wanted "Not to be"??

Given that Gene`s a good investor and has good taste in art (as evidenced by his Lichtenstein thread where he holds his own against the plebs), I was disappointed to find out that he even owns any Borises. They`re just so cheesy.

 

Boris is cheesy? Compared to what? This is a Comic Book art board where the vast majority of art that is discussed and coveted is chock full of cheese. Cheesy-ness is not the hill I would want to defend in this debate!

 

Scott

 

 

Agreed.

 

The only thing that kept Gene's pencil piece from exploding was the fact that it's pencil. People get into a mindset with painters that they will only see paintings and when they see something like this they may not pay attention. It's a really great pencil piece and I prefer it to some of Boris' colors if this piece were painted.

[stinkininkin]

Just a few thoughts.

 

(1) Regarding the Conan #4 cover, I would have pegged FMV closer to $75K, but, given that this was the fresh, standout piece of art in the sale, I'm not surprised it did better than that.

 

(2) On the FF #58 page, all the pre-sale chatter I heard was between $40 and $60K, so $50K to me was right at consensus. A strong price, but not necessarily surprising to me.

 

(3) Boris for me is a nostalgia thing. I discovered Boris' painted paperback covers right about the time I discovered those old REH Conan paperbacks with the Frazetta covers - both about a year or two before I discovered comics. Also, a friend of mine got me Boris and his (ex-)wife's age-inappropriate, steamy book "Enchantment" as a gag gift for Christmas in 1984 (I own the cover to that book now), so that left a mark on my impressionable young mind back then as well. In any case, I think Boris did some very cool work back in the day. Cheesy? Yeah, probably, though the same could be said for most art from the genre.

 

(4) Dan, yes, Boris' work was once difficult to find (at least the better vintage 1982 and earlier material). At some point, though, Heritage came into possession (or a group did and consigned it to Heritage) of a trove of dozens or maybe even hundreds of Boris paintings which came pouring out onto the market starting probably around 2005 or 2006 (don't quote me on that; I might be off by a little) over many years. A lot of other paintings, for whatever reasons, also came onto the market from other collectors as well.

 

(5) I love Lichtenstein's work and am an admirer of a lot of Modern/Contemporary art in general. Yes, the M/C art market is deranged, yes, the art world is full of pompous blowhards, but, no, that doesn't make the art itself any less worthy. Free your mind and the rest will follow...

 

(6) Believe me, there was not a shred of any actual "hero worship" in Tim's post, though maybe you have to know him well to realize that. He was just laying down some soothing platitudes before tearing into the Boris fans and anti-Lichtenstein crowd here, like a velvet glove cast in iron! The prospect of a curmudgeonly throw-down between Ruben and Tim is kind of fascinating, though.

 

Regarding the FF 58 page, I don't think the price was high at all, relatively speaking. Peak Kirby/Sinnott period from one of if not best FF story lines, great action page, etc. And this may be an apples to oranges comparison, but shouldn't peak Kirby FF prices be at least equal to peak Ditko Spidey prices? Spidey is more popular than FF for sure, but in the OA world, I would think Kirby has a bigger following/fan base than Ditko, so that's an equalizer in my mind. All I'm saying is that if this FF page was instead a somewhat comparable Ditko Spidey page in quality, the price would have been much higher, and I don't quite get that. Feel free to disagree.

 

Scott

 

 

I don't disagree that the Kirby FF page was superb and worth every penny.

 

I think the price disparity between Ditko ASM and Kirby FF comes more from sheer volume of artwork created and available from Kirby FF than Ditko ASM. The quality and impact may be equal but the supply is much higher on Kirby FF.

 

The supply side of things is a fair argument, but comic art collecting is so specific and there is a very small supply of the large art, peak KirbySinnott FF, just like there is a very small supply of peak Ditko Spidey. The large art aspect alone is a game changer as far as desirability in this regard and when that get's factored in, the discrepancy in supply is lessened.

 

Scott

[comix4fun]

For a lot of collectors it just feels like for every 1 "Wow" Ditko ASM page they see at auction there are 3-4 "Wow" Kirby pages in the same auction. Maybe that's part of it. It's the psychology of something seeming to be ubiquitous even if it's not all A+ quality.

 

You don't see 10 Ditko ASM pages in the same auction, or even 3. In this Heritage auction there isn't a single Ditko ASM page. However, if you look at the catalog pages 168-181 are almost entirely Kirby. That's 39 pages/pieces of Kirby art in this single auction. Obviously only a couple are top tier and they rose to the top, but that's a ton of Kirby in a single auction and it alters overall perception. That's especially true when there isn't a single Ditko ASM or Dr. Strange in the same auction.

 

That's all I meant.

[Brian Peck]

Anyone who collects John Buscema Conan would also know that having a Conan page with Belit in it is very desirable. Add Zula to the mix and you have a winner splash page as evidenced by the over $11k price tag it sold for. To me, the strong price on this splash affirms the earlier Conan #72 splash that sold last year on HA for over $9k. That splash also had Conan and Belit on it.

 

Buscema Conan #72 Splash

 

http://s23.postimg.org/pf6ukzlgr/conan72splash.jpg' alt='conan72splash.jpg'> screenshot pc[/img]

 

Page with Bélit from Buscema/Chan run on Conan have been going up over the past few years. The prices are much different than any other Buscema Conan art (with the exception of any art inked by Alcala). I feel there are a few who have been going hard for examples with Bélit, even the panel pages can go for $2K which is a lot compared to the rest of the Buscema/Chan Conan pages that come on the market. I picked up my Conan #95 a few years ago before the Bélit pages shot up in value, no Conan or Zula but an excellent example of Bélit.

[stinkininkin]

For a lot of collectors it just feels like for every 1 "Wow" Ditko ASM page they see at auction there are 3-4 "Wow" Kirby pages in the same auction. Maybe that's part of it. It's the psychology of something seeming to be ubiquitous even if it's not all A+ quality.

 

You don't see 10 Ditko ASM pages in the same auction, or even 3. In this Heritage auction there isn't a single Ditko ASM page. However, if you look at the catalog pages 168-181 are almost entirely Kirby. That's 39 pages/pieces of Kirby art in this single auction. Obviously only a couple are top tier and they rose to the top, but that's a ton of Kirby in a single auction and it alters overall perception. That's especially true when there isn't a single Ditko ASM or Dr. Strange in the same auction.

 

That's all I meant.

 

I hear you. I have somewhat the same reaction with Peanuts these days. Every auction, I see many multiples of Peanuts offered, and it does seem, as you said, ubiquitous, even though the quality and desirability is not equal by a long shot. So as you suggest, perception becomes reality.

 

Scott

[otherworldsj33]

I didn't do a count, but PEAK FF Kirby pages are probably about equal in quantity to Ditko Spider-man pages? With Spider-man being the more popular of the two, the Ditko pages should be valued somewhat higher.

[artdealer]

 

I'm surprised, though, to have lost money on that Conan movie poster prelim - it's super tight and super nice - can't believe the market says it's a <$2K piece! I mean, what else that cool can you buy for that price? Can't believe that's not even worth the $2.2K I paid years ago.

 

Two things probably hurt that piece. I can only assume that it is the finished painting that is currently up for auction in the CLink auction. Also most people who are into Boris are going to be looking for a painted piece and not pen and ink.

 

I've done the opposite of what you are doing. I have completely moved away from pen and ink and will only buy painted pieces.

 

 

That Conan painting on comiclink, while finished, was not used/printed.

But Gene's prelim should stand by itself. I sell a lot of movie poster prelim art that was never printed. The prelim price is not determined on the basis of whether the final painting was used.

It is determined by how much the buyer wants to pay.

 

MI

[jjonahjameson1]

I didn't do a count, but PEAK FF Kirby pages are probably about equal in quantity to Ditko Spider-man pages? With Spider-man being the more popular of the two, the Ditko pages should be valued somewhat higher.

 

I don't get this discussion about 'peak Kirby' at all. What issues of FF are you referring to, the Sinnott-inked stuff? For me, I'll take the Chic Stone inked pages any day of the week, and twice on Sundays because to me, Chic's thick lines captured that early Marvel Silver Age look on FF and other titles.

 

Regarding Ditko, I believe he inked his own pencils throughout AF 15 and ASM 1-38, Annuals 1&2. So, to compare apples to apples, what issues are 'peak' Ditko Spidey's?

 

Just curious.

[otherworldsj33]

Peak FF would be when Sinnott started, to around maybe the early 80's. I think most collectors agree with the start date, the end date varies.

[Bronty]

Mitch,

 

In your experience what's the range for that sort of material ? Is there price resistance above a certain point, generally speaking ? I assume the movie title is probably even more important than the artist?

 

Lastly I assume that publication while not necessary definitely helps? What would your estimate have been on this Conan piece ?

 

Gene I trust you don't mind me asking these questions.... just trying to wrap my mind around the market for the piece. It's easy to guess what a Kirby ff panel might be worth, this sort of thing takes more thought.

[Mephisto]

 

I'm surprised, though, to have lost money on that Conan movie poster prelim - it's super tight and super nice - can't believe the market says it's a <$2K piece! I mean, what else that cool can you buy for that price? Can't believe that's not even worth the $2.2K I paid years ago.

 

Two things probably hurt that piece. I can only assume that it is the finished painting that is currently up for auction in the CLink auction. Also most people who are into Boris are going to be looking for a painted piece and not pen and ink.

 

I've done the opposite of what you are doing. I have completely moved away from pen and ink and will only buy painted pieces.

 

 

That Conan painting on comiclink, while finished, was not used/printed.

But Gene's prelim should stand by itself. I sell a lot of movie poster prelim art that was never printed. The prelim price is not determined on the basis of whether the final painting was used.

It is determined by how much the buyer wants to pay.

 

MI

 

I was more implying that the timing of the Conan painting being offered at nearly the same time as the pen and ink piece may have had some people pass and go after the painting since that is what Boris is better known for.

[Bronty]

Hmmm that's a good point too. (Pencil not pen fwiw)