Is Foom 2 a Prototype for Wolverine?

[AlexanderM]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

Why would Marvel care what CGC calls Foom 2? A lawsuit? Really?

 

The dictionary comment was meant to be silly. That's how I feel about Foom 2 being called a prototype for Wolverine. Now I see a Foom 2 listed on E-Bay as Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Your use of strawmens is getting old. When did any creator claim "divine inspiration" for their character?

 

I'm outta the discussion. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done as people are getting suckered into bidding more on this Foom 2 than it warrants.

 

I guess business thinking is not really your forte. How important do you think Wolverine is to Marvel? What if Olsson sues Marvel? Or what if some other people from FOOM 2 sues Marvel for taking their ideas. Personally I don't think there is a case because it is just inspiration and inspiration is inevitable (unless you believe in divine inspiration). But surely it would be a significant support to such a case if CGC were to state that FOOM 2 is the Wolverine prototype.

[seanfingh]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

Why would Marvel care what CGC calls Foom 2? A lawsuit? Really?

 

The dictionary comment was meant to be silly. That's how I feel about Foom 2 being called a prototype for Wolverine. Now I see a Foom 2 listed on E-Bay as Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Your use of strawmens is getting old. When did any creator claim "divine inspiration" for their character?

 

I'm outta the discussion. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done as people are getting suckered into bidding more on this Foom 2 than it warrants.

 

I guess business thinking is not really your forte. How important do you think Wolverine is to Marvel? What if Olsson sues Marvel? Or what if some other people from FOOM 2 sues Marvel for taking their ideas. Personally I don't think there is a case because it is just inspiration and inspiration is inevitable (unless you believe in divine inspiration). But surely it would be a significant support to such a case if CGC were to state that FOOM 2 is the Wolverine prototype.

 

You should look up the doctrine of laches.

[AlexanderM]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

Why would Marvel care what CGC calls Foom 2? A lawsuit? Really?

 

The dictionary comment was meant to be silly. That's how I feel about Foom 2 being called a prototype for Wolverine. Now I see a Foom 2 listed on E-Bay as Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Your use of strawmens is getting old. When did any creator claim "divine inspiration" for their character?

 

I'm outta the discussion. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done as people are getting suckered into bidding more on this Foom 2 than it warrants.

 

I guess business thinking is not really your forte. How important do you think Wolverine is to Marvel? What if Olsson sues Marvel? Or what if some other people from FOOM 2 sues Marvel for taking their ideas. Personally I don't think there is a case because it is just inspiration and inspiration is inevitable (unless you believe in divine inspiration). But surely it would be a significant support to such a case if CGC were to state that FOOM 2 is the Wolverine prototype.

 

You should look up the doctrine of laches.

 

I already said I don't think there is a case. so doctrine of laches doesn't make a difference. Marvel was also sued by Wolfman and other, and I don't think they fancy going through that again. Furthermore defendants often raise the "doctrine of laches" as an affirmative defense in answers, but it is seldom applied by the Court.

[comix4fun]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

Why would Marvel care what CGC calls Foom 2? A lawsuit? Really?

 

The dictionary comment was meant to be silly. That's how I feel about Foom 2 being called a prototype for Wolverine. Now I see a Foom 2 listed on E-Bay as Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Your use of strawmens is getting old. When did any creator claim "divine inspiration" for their character?

 

I'm outta the discussion. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done as people are getting suckered into bidding more on this Foom 2 than it warrants.

 

I guess business thinking is not really your forte. How important do you think Wolverine is to Marvel? What if Olsson sues Marvel? Or what if some other people from FOOM 2 sues Marvel for taking their ideas. Personally I don't think there is a case because it is just inspiration and inspiration is inevitable (unless you believe in divine inspiration). But surely it would be a significant support to such a case if CGC were to state that FOOM 2 is the Wolverine prototype.

 

You should look up the doctrine of laches.

 

 

[MrWeen]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

[seanfingh]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

Why would Marvel care what CGC calls Foom 2? A lawsuit? Really?

 

The dictionary comment was meant to be silly. That's how I feel about Foom 2 being called a prototype for Wolverine. Now I see a Foom 2 listed on E-Bay as Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Your use of strawmens is getting old. When did any creator claim "divine inspiration" for their character?

 

I'm outta the discussion. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done as people are getting suckered into bidding more on this Foom 2 than it warrants.

 

I guess business thinking is not really your forte. How important do you think Wolverine is to Marvel? What if Olsson sues Marvel? Or what if some other people from FOOM 2 sues Marvel for taking their ideas. Personally I don't think there is a case because it is just inspiration and inspiration is inevitable (unless you believe in divine inspiration). But surely it would be a significant support to such a case if CGC were to state that FOOM 2 is the Wolverine prototype.

 

You should look up the doctrine of laches.

 

I already said I don't think there is a case. so doctrine of laches doesn't make a difference. Marvel was also sued by Wolfman and other, and I don't think they fancy going through that again. Furthermore defendants often raise the "doctrine of laches" as an affirmative defense in answers, but it is seldom applied by the Court.

 

It is applied all the time where people sit on their rights for 30 years.

[seanfingh]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

 

 

[font:Impact]MONIES[/font]

[AlexanderM]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

 

Three copies have sold so far:

 

First. $130

Second. $203

Third. $260

 

What will the next one sell for? Current bid is $100.

[*Bronze age fan*]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

 

 

What about the Foom 2 Punisher thread? Or Foom 2 Star Hawk?

[comix4fun]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

 

Three copies have sold so far:

 

First. $130

Second. $203

Third. $260

 

What will the next one sell for? Current bid is $100.

 

 

Several times what it will sell for in a year.

[comix4fun]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

 

 

What about the Foom 2 Punisher thread? Or Foom 2 Star Hawk?

 

 

 

I just read that Marvel is going to head off this entire problem by announcing that there is a "FOOM 2 Universe" where all these characters live happily...on a farm...with a pond and shuffleboard.

[AlexanderM]

So this book continues to sell well, Another one is up over 100, I wonder where the Foom 2 Quasar thread is?

 

Three copies have sold so far:

 

First. $130

Second. $203

Third. $260

 

What will the next one sell for? Current bid is $100.

 

 

Several times what it will sell for in a year.

 

Maybe, but guess...

 

What do you think the price for the current issue will be?

 

Let's have some fun and guess

[joe_collector]

Here's yet more fuel for the "Marvel Copyright Naming Madness" fire. From Iron Man 79 in 1975:

[joe_collector]

And I know there have been several partial pics of the FOOM 2 contest image, but can someone please post a nice series of them, clearly showing the entire two pages in bite-sized chunks?

 

Thanks.

[joe_collector]

And I know there have been several partial pics of the FOOM 2 contest image, but can someone please post a nice series of them, clearly showing the entire two pages in bite-sized chunks?

 

Thanks.

 

Anyone?

[comix4fun]

And I know there have been several partial pics of the FOOM 2 contest image, but can someone please post a nice series of them, clearly showing the entire two pages in bite-sized chunks?

 

Thanks.

 

Anyone?

 

 

They are trying to make you go buy a copy...

[joe_collector]

And I know there have been several partial pics of the FOOM 2 contest image, but can someone please post a nice series of them, clearly showing the entire two pages in bite-sized chunks?

 

Thanks.

 

Anyone?

 

They are trying to make you go buy a copy...

 

[telerites]

And I know there have been several partial pics of the FOOM 2 contest image, but can someone please post a nice series of them, clearly showing the entire two pages in bite-sized chunks?

 

Thanks.

 

Anyone?

 

They are trying to make you go buy a copy...

 

 

I can but it may not be until this weekend. If I am able, I will try after work today.

[joe_collector]

I can but it may not be until this weekend. If I am able, I will try after work today.

 

Thanks, and anything you can do would be appreciated. There are a few characters that I'd like to see close-up/on angle just to properly catalog them for myself.

[MrWeen]

Honestly if you had one of these, and I suspect most of us do not, would you sell now or hold? People are paying crazy prices for this book.