Is Foom 2 a Prototype for Wolverine?

[joe_collector]

It looks like a Mixture between Black Panther and the White Tiger.

 

Come on, it looks exactly like Catwoman. Ya know, long hair, hips, boobs.

 

 

I agree, if Catwoman were a 45 year old frumpy RN that wore a face covering mask.

 

So Black Panther and White Tiger look like frumpy 45-year old RN's?

[joe_collector]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

[seanfingh]

It looks like a Mixture between Black Panther and the White Tiger.

 

Come on, it looks exactly like Catwoman. Ya know, long hair, hips, boobs.

 

 

I agree, if Catwoman were a 45 year old frumpy RN that wore a face covering mask.

 

So Black Panther and White Tiger look like frumpy 45-year old RN's?

 

Your mind powers won't work on me, boy.

 

 

[rjrjr]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

[AlexanderM]

Yeah, because the writers got their ideas from divine intervention...or?

 

They too (like all other humans) were influenced by the things they read etc when creating super-heroes and stories.

 

Btw... the Ebay auction that ended last week sold for $140. The next for $200.

 

The one that ended today sold for $250.

 

Selling now suddenly seems pretty dumb.

[*Bronze age fan*]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

 

Imagine the prices this mag would hit if all of these characters were listed as prototypes in the auctions descriptions.

[*Bronze age fan*]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

[joe_collector]

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

Judging from Marvel tell-all books, I wouldn't doubt for a minute that Stan created "same name" characters just to get the copyright on them. He "created" She-Hulk only because there was word the TV show would introduce a female Hulk and Marvel wanted royalties. Back in the mid-70's they were trying to copyright any cool name or concept they could, as Atlas was doing the same thing.

 

I do not believe the Wolverine character had anything to do with the one in FOOM 2, but I do think there was a "Gold Rush" on new character names, and I do lean towards Starhawk being a direct rip.

[Jimmy Linguini]

well I asked my main man Tom B

 

http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/72361985712/whats-your-response-to-marvel-basing-the-idea-of-the

[joe_collector]

well I asked my main man Tom B

 

http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/72361985712/whats-your-response-to-marvel-basing-the-idea-of-the

 

Come on, no one actually believes that the Marvel Wolverine character was based on that Robby the Fembot from FOOM. Why not ask him if he believes in leprechauns.

 

The other characters are far more interesting.

[Jimmy Linguini]

well I asked my main man Tom B

 

http://brevoortformspring.tumblr.com/post/72361985712/whats-your-response-to-marvel-basing-the-idea-of-the

 

Come on, no one actually believes that the Marvel Wolverine character was based on that Robby the Fembot from FOOM. Why not ask him if he believes in leprechauns.

 

The other characters are far more interesting.

 

I don't know. I think its possible Stan got submissions and did something like he does here,

Instead of saying overkill he said Wolverine.

 

[AlexanderM]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

That would make sense. If they have any marketing sense they would do that.

 

And if there is anything we know about Lee and Marvel.. it is that the point where they are superior to DC is in the marketing strategy and marketing research.

 

But a 12-year old?

 

Another poster posted this: " those Marvel tell-all books and they mentioned at least 4-5 times how Marv Wolfman had developed the character of Nova when he was a little kid, "Wolfman used his childhood idea of Nova, a childhood creation of Wolfman's.."

 

A little kid? Impossible... Wolfman must be lying!!

 

Wolfman btw. sued Marvel over the rights to Blade and Nova as well if I remember correctly. The court ruled that Marvel had "taken the character and changed it sufficiently" for him to lose copyright...

 

 

[comix4fun]

Yeah, because the writers got their ideas from divine intervention...or?

 

They too (like all other humans) were influenced by the things they read etc when creating super-heroes and stories.

 

Btw... the Ebay auction that ended last week sold for $140. The next for $200.

 

The one that ended today sold for $250.

 

Selling now suddenly seems pretty dumb.

 

 

 

QFP.

[joe_collector]

Another poster posted this: " those Marvel tell-all books and they mentioned at least 4-5 times how Marv Wolfman had developed the character of Nova when he was a little kid, "Wolfman used his childhood idea of Nova, a childhood creation of Wolfman's.."

 

A little kid? Impossible... Wolfman must be lying!!

 

Obviously you're not familiar with my little tale, which may or may not have resulted in Nova.

 

When I was a little kid, maybe 1974-75 or so, I sent Marvel a character submission of Photon: The Human Rocket, and he was a dead-ringer for Nova, other than a less-rounded helmet, but everything else - star-splotch on chest, star on helmet, and Photon's legs even disappeared when he flew.

 

I never heard anything back, but I was pissed when I saw Nova 1, and then rankled a bit more when I saw this issue, like they were rubbing it in my face.

 

 

So yeah, forgive me if I think Marvel may have stolen a few ideas from little kids.

 

 

[rjrjr]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

[joe_collector]

We're just doing this for fun, not to change the past or to sell issues of FOOM 2.

[AlexanderM]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

[*Bronze age fan*]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

For most of what you wrote.

 

Can anyone else come up with another Marvel mag that had a contest like this? I cant think of any. I owned a copy of Foom 2 and did not even know this contest was in that issue.

[*Bronze age fan*]

We're just doing this for fun, not to change the past or to sell issues of FOOM 2.

 

 

Yeah, I just find it interesting. And looking at some of the drawings from this contest I can see how the ideas may have been used. I stand to make nothing on my opinion about this since I am not going to sell my issue of Foom 2.

[rjrjr]

Here are my "Most Likely To Have Been Ripped Off from FOOM #2" list:

 

1) Starr-Hawk - this is the most obvious one to me, and the name is virtually the same (Starhawk), the picture looks very close, both characters can fly, similar outfits, etc. and Starhawk first appeared in 1975.

 

2) Stefan Wolff - we all know that the Punisher was modeled after The Executioner, but the image does look eerily like the cover to ASM 129, and I can imagine someone at Marvel stating this submission was a pretty good arrangement for a splash page or cover.

 

3) Midnight Stranger - Looks very similar to Midnight from MOKF, who debuted not long after FOOM 2.

 

4) Quasar - visually, not at all similar to the Marvel character, but the pose and overall tone of the image is more than just a name ripoff.

 

5) Darkstar and Wolverine - name only, but could have been a case of "Hey, those are cool names, someone create a new character so we can get the copyright".

 

Yeah, that two page spread in FOOM #2 with submissions from 12 year olds was a gold mine of ideas. Or we are reaching and these are coincidences.

 

I'm in the coincidence camp myself.

 

 

I do not understand the continued statements that 12 year olds could never had lead to any of the ideas for these characters. This was a contest in a Marvel publication for ideas for new characters. Be it a name or a cover idea, they MAY have ended up being used by the creators at Marvel. Being that these were made by young readers, maybe it was assumed that the names appealed to the younger readers that were the target audience.

 

 

Is a dictionary published before these characters appeared also prototypes for these characters? I'll bet lots of creators look at dictionaries for naming ideas, but I don't think I'll be able to sell my 1970 Webster Dictionary as a prototype for Wolverine, Punisher, Nova, or any other character for that matter. But, I'm willing to unload it if someone is interested.

 

I can concede that maybe the names were lifted from the submissions in this contest, but there is absolutely no proof that happened. But those names don't equal prototypes, first appearances, or anything else except maybe inspiration. Are we going to start labeling books as "possible inspiration" now? Seriously? CGC is never going to label this Foom 2 as a prototype for Wolverine, Quasar, Darkstar, or whatever other character we dream up came from these submissions, so this whole debate is moot.

 

It might be time to start pulling out every comic or comic magazine that has a contest and start making connections between the winner submissions and characters created shortly thereafter. There has to be at least a dozen of these contests over the years and I'm willing to bet we'll be able to come up with some pretty convincing links between the submissions and characters. Let's start listing all these comics and magazines and start looking at the submissions and making mess up.

 

CGC will not label FOOM 2 a prototype for Wolverine or any of the other characters. Even if one was Hulk, got stronger as he got mad and so on. Simply because Marvel would most likely hit them with a law suit or at the very least be very negative about it. So CGC cannot do this no matter what they think happened.

 

The dictionary comment is just silly.

 

Also remember that lots of creative people from Marvel, and perhaps associated with Trimpe et al might be members on these boards. So really no wonder the harsh defense that Wolverine and other characters were the result of 'divine inspiration', and not mortal inspiration from worldly matters (FOOM 2 being as natural and logical a source of inspiration as any).

 

 

Why would Marvel care what CGC calls Foom 2? A lawsuit? Really?

 

The dictionary comment was meant to be silly. That's how I feel about Foom 2 being called a prototype for Wolverine. Now I see a Foom 2 listed on E-Bay as Wolverine's first appearance.

 

Your use of strawmens is getting old. When did any creator claim "divine inspiration" for their character?

 

I'm outta the discussion. Unfortunately, the damage has already been done as people are getting suckered into bidding more on this Foom 2 than it warrants.