THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[VintageComics]

8 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Excellent idea and a good strategy to address this particular issue here going forward, as opposed to keeping the current incorrect grading policy in place. 

The did away with notes on the label because notes make a book look inferior compared to a book without notes. You'll  never see them do something like that.

[NoMan]

There is no need to be rude. No shame in my game. Just brave enough to put it in writing. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by NoMan

[Spiderturtle]

24 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

-J.

[SC22]

1 hour ago, NoMan said:

There is no need to be rude. No shame in my game. Just brave enough to put it in writing. 

lollll!!

[VintageComics]

7 hours ago, entalmighty1 said:

So it could be that they do downgrade for chipping, but specific blue chip books get a pass.

I agree with namisgr. They do downgrade, it's just done on a sliding scale. Low grade books can have so many accumulative defects that the chipping may not even affect the grade.

I don't think any blue chip books get a pass. You need to remember that there is some inconsistency in grading which might account for some variance.

[SC22]

1 hour ago, VintageComics said:

I agree with namisgr. They do downgrade, it's just done on a sliding scale. Low grade books can have so many accumulative defects that the chipping may not even affect the grade.

I don't think any blue chip books get a pass. You need to remember that there is some inconsistency in grading which might account for some variance.

Agreed!!

[VintageComics]

5 hours ago, Dark Knight said:

I too believe that CGC or any other grading company should hammer down on marvel chipping when it comes to the final grade. It's a significant defect that should be taken into account that lowers the visual appeal of the book. If CGC has graded harshly with staining and how they changed their stance on tape, I don't why they wouldn't do the same with chipping (pre and full-on).

But they do hammer the grade. The chipping just has left effect on the grade as the grade drops.

But a 9.8 with a chip could end up grading a 9.0 with one chip (or something along those lines). If there is enough chipping it could end up in the VG range.

5 hours ago, Dark Knight said:

It seems now collectors/investors have taken the strong eye appeal factor  into account regardless of grade, which should have been in affect years ago. The gap seems to be widely spreading in values between chipped and non chipped copies kinda like restored vs unrestored copies.

There's no way the gap will be as wide as restored vs. unrestored (and I don't think that's what you meant, just clarifying).

[zhamlau]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Fantasy-15-CGC-6-0-HOLY-GRAIL-KEY-1st-app-Spider-Man-Ditko-Lee-Marvel-/382018222798?hash=item58f20f7ace&rmvSB=true

I really hope this book doesn't go for 60-70k. Its not that bright, its page color is just average for grade, and its got a fair amount of chipping in multiple spots that probably accounts for almost .25% of the cover area being gone. If this one goes nuts price wise than it changes the thought behind the pricing jumps. Nothing can be upgraded, its not exceptional eye appeal, and its in fact over-graded on some level based on the chips in multiple spots.

 

[VintageComics]

4 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Well, from the way that I am reading it, looks like Jaydog is saying that CGC does not factor Marvel chipping into their grading criteria, while you are saying they do.

As someone who has had literally 1000's of books graded and has spent the last 15 years reverse engineering CGC's grading standards as well as spoken to graders about it, they absolutely take Marvel Chipping into account and it does affect the grade.

[Jaydogrules]

17 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

As someone who has had literally 1000's of books graded and has spent the last 15 years reverse engineering CGC's grading standards as well as spoken to graders about it, they absolutely take Marvel Chipping into account and it does affect the grade.

Nor did I state otherwise.  

I actually agree with your analysis of how MC can affect grading on a sliding scale based on overall condition. 

I did say that "eye appeal" is not factored into the structural grade however. 

Because it isn't.  

-J.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Jaydogrules

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1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Fantasy-15-CGC-6-0-HOLY-GRAIL-KEY-1st-app-Spider-Man-Ditko-Lee-Marvel-/382018222798?hash=item58f20f7ace&rmvSB=true

I really hope this book doesn't go for 60-70k. Its not that bright, its page color is just average for grade, and its got a fair amount of chipping in multiple spots that probably accounts for almost .25% of the cover area being gone. If this one goes nuts price wise than it changes the thought behind the pricing jumps. Nothing can be upgraded, its not exceptional eye appeal, and its in fact over-graded on some level based on the chips in multiple spots.

 

It will not go up to 70k maybe 55k to 60k. This new price range it not necessarily because some one thinks it will upgrade it could simply be the new norm (for now till it goes up again).

Edited March 28, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[Dark Knight]

15 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

But they do hammer the grade. The chipping just has left effect on the grade as the grade drops.

But a 9.8 with a chip could end up grading a 9.0 with one chip (or something along those lines). If there is enough chipping it could end up in the VG range.

Have you actually asked CGC that they do downgrade for chipping if a book is not in lower grades?  I do agree that lower graded books already have enough defects on them that mc does not really do justice to the final grade.  On the other hand, mid grade to mid/upper (6.0-8.0ish) I do not see a drop in grade at all if mc is present. I think I also read years back about the issue of mc that CGC grades the book as if the mc is not there on a chipped book.  

15 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

There's no way the gap will be as wide as restored vs. unrestored (and I don't think that's what you meant, just clarifying).

Yes,  it is not precisely what I meant, just an example that a gap is in fact present and that it is more significant now than it was before.

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1 hour ago, Dark Knight said:

Yes,  it is not precisely what I meant, just an example that a gap is in fact present and that it is more significant now than it was before.

That is depending on the extent of Marvel Chipping.

[VintageComics]

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I did say that "eye appeal" is not factored into the structural grade however. 

Because it isn't.  

Eye appeal is also factored into the grade, again just not to the same degree that we might want it to be.

Miswraps will keep books out of the highest grades and on an otherwise perfect book miswraps alone could be the difference between 9.6, 9.8, 9.9 and 10.0 based on how bad it is.

CGC does down grade for writing on covers if it's not date stamp or Pedigree related.

If there are corners torn off a cover or pieces missing, they definitely down grade heavily.

I can't think of any other examples right now but they do definitely factor eye appeal into the grades. Obviously, like MC, there is much more of a deduction in high grades than there is in lower grades.

Why do they not take as much off for things like MC and eye appeal as some collectors would like? I'd take an educated guess and say that it's because they want people to continue submitting and if they hammer grades they might appeal to buyers but not to sellers.

So their grading standards are a compromise to appease both buyers and sellers.

 

 

[VintageComics]

18 minutes ago, Dark Knight said:

Have you actually asked CGC that they do downgrade for chipping if a book is not in lower grades?  I do agree that lower graded books already have enough defects on them that mc does not really do justice to the final grade.  On the other hand, mid grade to mid/upper (6.0-8.0ish) I do not see a drop in grade at all if mc is present. I think I also read years back about the issue of mc that CGC grades the book as if the mc is not there on a chipped book.  

Absolutely. Even in mid grades, it's affected the grade on books I've submitted.

I had an FF #1 that was just gorgeous and white. The book would have graded in the 7.5/8.0 range if not for Marvel Chipping.

It graded a 5.5 and when I questioned Borock about it (he was the finalizer) he stated that they couldn't grade it higher because of the amount of Marvel chipping.

If I remember correctly, namisgr bought the book. I remember that because I remember him telling me that he didn't care that the book had Marvel Chipping.

[Spiderturtle]

9 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

Absolutely. Even in mid grades, it's affected the grade on books I've submitted.

I had an FF #1 that was just gorgeous and white. The book would have graded in the 7.5/8.0 range if not for Marvel Chipping.

It graded a 5.5 and when I questioned Borock about it (he was the finalizer) he stated that they couldn't grade it higher because of the amount of Marvel chipping.

If I remember correctly, namisgr bought the book. I remember that because I remember him telling me that he didn't care that the book had Marvel Chipping.

I've seen an af15 7.5 have mc

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1 hour ago, Spiderturtle said:

I've seen an af15 7.5 have mc

I have seen a lot of 7.5's have MC. One obvious book that I have seen this multiple times is Hulk 1.

Edited March 28, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[Jordysnordy]

How's this for a sale on HA last night - missing back cover and last 2 pages yet still sets a new GPA high (granted the front cover is really nice)

 

[SC22]

1 hour ago, Jordysnordy said:

How's this for a sale on HA last night - missing back cover and last 2 pages yet still sets a new GPA high (granted the front cover is really nice)

 

2 years ago you could have purchased this book for about half the price.

[VintageComics]

54 minutes ago, Spiderturtle said:

I've seen an af15 7.5 have mc

Sure, but it all depends on how much MC.

I've seen it on 9.4 and 9.6 books but it was so tiny it didn't affect eye appeal.

The 5.5 copy had lots.