THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

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1 hour ago, Dark Knight said:

I want moar Batman books! 

Hey I wish I purchased a Babe Ruth rookie (from 1916 not his 1914 Baltimore News those are extremely rare and expensive) PSA 1 five years ago at 10 000$ they now sell for 75 000$ to over 100 000$ depending on the back type....so your lucky you have the key books....be zen....lolll!! At least you are not going hungry and can enjoy a wonderful hobby such as this one.....always remember that and you will content. There are tons of worse things in life than owning a Bat1. Batman is #1 in the hobby then comes Spidey at #2 but hey if anybody asks you did not here that from me....lolll!!

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[Foolkiller]

27 minutes ago, Jordysnordy said:

Serious question- how many books in a grade would you consider replication? When the AF 15 7.5 sold for $82500.00 in August 2016 some thought the price was maybe artificially inflated as part of a cash and trade deal as the previous GPA high was $73500.00 - so a big jump. But 2 copies have sold in the last month for 87K and 85K - giving the last 3 7.5 sales an average of $85K. Is 3 sales enough of a sample to now say that 85K is the going price for a 7.5? I'm just using 7.5 as an example because 3 copies have sold in the last 8 months that I know of and it's the highest grade with multiple sales all in the same price range.

I would say that you need replication in multiple venues to say that it's a consistent price.  I don't count a cash/trade deal, so I'd only be working off of the two current sales.  If you have an AF 15 7.5 will Metro pay you $75k to get it and make $10k on the flip (I'm sure they would if they have a customer and maybe they would independently)?  For me I like to see sales across a variety of platforms, not just at auction but also straight sales that dealers are making.  That's just me.  I'm colored by the fact that I know how many copies are out there, how many are being sat on, and how my overall skepticism for how many prices and sales have manipulated over the years.  The counter point to that is that there are new buyers, with new money and there is genuine new demand for many books with a real increase in interest among some of the new collectors out there with money, willing to pay the money for more keys.  With that said, I am a skeptic on SA run ups that aren't stabilized over time and replicated.  But maybe this is where the book is at now.  Time will certainly tell.

[zhamlau]

http://www.comiclink.com/Auctions/item.asp?back=%2FComicTrack%2FAuctions%2Fbids.asp&id=1171202

So, the book ended at 27,500  from what I see. I know people didn't agree on some of my assessment but the issue had 16 different chips of various sizes out of 2 of the 3 sides possible to me that's major chipping. Its not catastrophic but its significant and I think helps prove the point many here are making about MC being a major hurting factor in price. Being CBCS not CGC hurt as well, and not having any realistic up-grade potential added up to this book performing under GPA 2016 average by a significant amount.

I think you can view this as a positive. Its not just mindless panic buying and hype driving this but actual reasonable market dynamics. People want CGC, People want no Chips, People want good page quality, People want eye appeal. You give them that, the same grade can literally swing the price 100%. A 5.0 sells for 57k last week...a 5.5 sells for 27k this week...what pushed the supposedly inferior grade to 2x the price? I think its the issues we talked about here unless im missing something.

Edited March 29, 2017 by zhamlau

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1 hour ago, zhamlau said:

So, the book ended at 27,500  from what I see. I know people didn't agree on some of my assessment but the issue had 16 different chips of various sizes out of 2 of the 3 sides possible to me that's major chipping. Its not catastrophic but its significant and I think helps prove the point many here are making about MC being a major hurting factor in price. Being CBCS not CGC hurt as well, and not having any realistic up-grade potential added up to this book performing under GPA 2016 average by a significant amount.

I think you can view this as a positive. Its not just mindless panic buying and hype driving this but actual reasonable market dynamics. People want CGC, People want no Chips, People want good page quality, People want eye appeal. You give them that, the same grade can literally swing the price 100%. A 5.0 sells for 57k last week...a 5.5 sells for 27k this week...what pushed the supposedly inferior grade to 2x the price? I think its the issues we talked about here unless im missing something.

You can't compare a final hammer price with a book graded by CBCS versus the #1 grading company in the hobby CGC. Everyone knows CBCS brings much lower prices at auction. By the way the book you are talking about has both marvel chipping (and I have seen much worse amounts of it than what shown on this AF15 CBCS 5.0.....this is by no means the worst 5.0 when comes to chipping) and marvel pre-chipping.

But yes if the MC is major then it will affect the price much more than one that has only medium amounts of chipping or better only minor chipping or the least worst of the chipping options......that is pre-chipping.....then comes a book with no chipping at all. These would be the 5 categories I would base myself on before buying a book. What percentage each one brings is another matter (I simply do not know). In the end the interior counts as well as the back cover in making a proper judgement call before buying a book for it's overall grade (we are putting a lot on emphasis on marvel chipping so I add this so people do not forget the remaining factors on a book before spending big bucks).

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

2 hours ago, Foolkiller said:

I don't want to go back and forth on this point and I certainly respect your point of view, and even given some of the information I know, it wouldn't mean you're wrong necessarily.  I'm simply skeptical overall based on results in a singular comic connect auction that are propelling things forward.  I remember when it happened on the Hulk 1s jumping up overnight.  

You have to understand this has happened with other key items in the comic book world and other hobbies and then the price was acknowledged as the new value point till it starts going up again. That is how new values are created sometimes slowly some times fast. If this was any other book in the SA I would be wary....maybe Hulk 1 but that is it.

Looks like Brian was right in the end as the auction for the AF 15 tonight didn't come anywhere close to AF 15 results in the CC Auction on a price per point basis.  Of course, this could also be the normal process of backfilling and consolidation that normally takes place when a new pricing level is being set. 

Does anybody know what the going price per point for an AF 15 was before the CC Auction took place last week? 

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1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Looks like Brian was right in the end as the auction for the AF 15 tonight didn't come anywhere close to AF 15 results in the CC Auction on a price per point basis.  Of course, this could also be the normal process of backfilling and consolidation that normally takes place when a new pricing level is being set. 

Does anybody know what the going price per point for an AF 15 was before the CC Auction took place last week? 

It was graded by CBCS everyone knows that company brings a lot less money at auction than a book in the same grade graded by CGC. So no this is no indicator at all. It would most likely have been graded a CGC 4.0.

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[lou_fine]

2 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

It was graded by CBCS everyone knows that company brings a lot less money at auction than a book in the same grade....graded by CGC. So no this is no indicator at all.

If that is the case, then can you please explain the price differential between these 2 equivalent graded copies of Hulk #1:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=682667&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=690868&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

Looks like the one graded by the other company sold for $9K+ more than the one sold by CGC, albeit there was a difference of only 3 months between the 2 auctions. 

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1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

If that is the case, then can you please explain the price differential between these 2 equivalent graded copies of Hulk #1:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=682667&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=690868&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

Looks like the one graded by the other company sold for $9K+ more than the one sold by CGC, albeit there was a difference of only 3 months between the 2 auctions. 

A TRUE rare sale for CBCS maybe 1% of their books sell for more than the same graded copy by CGC. Most of CBCS's  books are over graded.

Most of us will not even buy a CBCS graded book......maybe it was someone new to the hobby that did not know any better.

The AF15 CBCS 5.0 is no way a CGC 5.0 equivalent maybe a CGC 4.0.

The only time I would ever buy a book graded by CBCS would be for a rare GA book I simply could not locate in a CGC holder.

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[showcase22gr1959]

In the AF15 club a few boardie mention a very nice:

CGC 5.5 sold on ebay 3/9/17 $41750 (this ended before the CC auction)

later another copy in CGC 4.5 (with MC) sold on ebay 3/26/17 $26000 (after the CC auction)

I also recalled a CGC 5.5 (with MC) sold in the boards for $33500? (after the CC auciton?)  Maybe a boardie can confirm.

 

 

[showcase22gr1959]

11 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

If that is the case, then can you please explain the price differential between these 2 equivalent graded copies of Hulk #1:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=682667&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=690868&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

Looks like the one graded by the other company sold for $9K+ more than the one sold by CGC, albeit there was a difference of only 3 months between the 2 auctions. 

If you don't mind, I can. The CGC 8.5 sold along the CGC 7.5 during the auction fatigue in the end of the year. Early in the year, Roy and I stated prices of Hulk 1 has begun to move upwards.

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15 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

If that is the case, then can you please explain the price differential between these 2 equivalent graded copies of Hulk #1:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=682667&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?referral=EAlist&id=690868&title=INCREDIBLEHULK

Looks like the one graded by the other company sold for $9K+ more than the one sold by CGC, albeit there was a difference of only 3 months between the 2 auctions. 

Oh and yeah there was a PGX X-Men #1 9.2 that sold for 28 500$ (in the last ComicConnect auction)....lolllll try finding a X-Men #1 CGC 9.2 for less than 50 000$ to 60 000$. That PGX book was more like a CGC 8.0 or maximum a CGC 8.5.

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

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Just now, showcase22gr1959 said:

If you don't mind, I can. The CGC 8.5 sold along the CGC 7.5 during the auction fatigue in the end of the year. Early in the year, Roy and I stated prices of Hulk 1 has begun to move upwards.

BINGO!!

[Dark Knight]

2 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

Hey I wish I purchased a Babe Ruth rookie (from 1916 not his 1914 Baltimore News those are extremely rare and expensive) PSA 1 five years ago at 10 000$ they now sell for 75 000$ to over 100 000$ depending on the back type....so your lucky you have the key books....be zen....lolll!! At least you are not going hungry and can enjoy a wonderful hobby such as this one.....always remember that and you will content. There are tons of worse things in life than owning a Bat1. Batman is #1 in the hobby then comes Spidey at #2 but hey if anybody asks you did not here that from me....lolll!!

Insane  and a PSA 1 at that!?  What's the highest grade ever recorded?  Seems very rare if a PSA 1 sells for that much.

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Just now, Dark Knight said:

Insane  and a PSA 1 at that!?  What's the highest grade ever recorded?  Seems very rare if a PSA 1 sells for that much.

I believe there are four PSA 8's. They would each bring well over 750 000$. There is one 1916 M101-4 and three 1916 M101-5's. They where given out with the sporting news newspaper and some other various companies (those have very rare backs......most have blank backs and sporting news backs).

As for his pre rookie card the 1914 Baltimore News there are only 10 known examples in the entire world. Those rarely sell since some are in museums. Last few I saw sold for a lot of money....A PSA 1 sold for 450 300$ (but that was back in 2013 the card is likely worth much more now). There are 2 colors some are blue and some are red.

Link:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2013/spring/1/1914-baltimore-news-babe-ruth-rookie-card/

I believe the highest graded out of the 10 known is this PSA 4. This card is most likely the world's most expensive baseball card with the T206 Honus Wagner PSA 8. Personally I would rather have the Ruth card. Baltimore is the city where Ruth learned to play baseball at St-Mary's industrial school for troubled boys. The card I believe was released with the Baltimore News newspaper some time in 1914. Most people who own this card have no intentions of selling it they are very rich.....I think the owner of the Arizona MLB team (he has one of the finest baseball collections in the world he owns the only PSA 8 T206 Honus Wagner and of of only 3 19152 Topps Mickey Mantle cards graded PSA 10.....and many many more highest graded cards) has one or maybe a few.....but I am not sure.

 

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[Dark Knight]

14 minutes ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

I believe there are four PSA 8's. They would each bring well over 750 000$. There is one 1916 M101-4 and three 1916 M101-5's. They where given out with the sporting news newspaper and some other various companies (those have very rare backs......most have blank backs and sporting news backs).

As for his pre rookie card the 1914 Baltimore News there are only 10 known examples in the entire world. Those rarely sell since some are in museums. Last few I saw sold for a lot of money....A PSA 1 sold for 450 300$ (but that was back in 2013 the card is likely worth much more now). There are 2 colors some are blue and some are red.

Link:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2013/spring/1/1914-baltimore-news-babe-ruth-rookie-card/

I believe the highest graded out of the 10 known is this PSA 4. This card is most likely the world's most expensive baseball card with the T206 Honus Wagner PSA 8. Personally I would rather have the Ruth card. Baltimore is the city where Ruth learned to play baseball at St-Mary's industrial school for troubled boys. The card I believe was released with the Baltimore News newspaper some time in 1914. Most people who own this card have no intentions of selling it they are very rich.....I think the owner of the Arizona MLB team has one or maybe a few.....but I am not sure.

 

I don't know a whole lot about sports cards except the ones collectors are always talking about (T-206 Honus Wagner, 52 mantle, etc.) and that the Wagner T-206 is supposedly the most valuable card of all sports cards, didn't know there is one that can match or perhaps in this case be the more valuable one. This is the 1st time I've ever seen this Ruth card.  Thought his rookie card was from the Goudy series or something like that. Good to know.

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Just now, Dark Knight said:

I don't know a whole lot about sports cards except the ones collectors are always talking about (T-206 Honus Wagner, 52 mantle, etc.) and that the Wagner T-206 is supposedly the most valuable card of all sports cards, didn't know there is one that can match or perhaps in this case be the more valuable one. This is the 1st time I've ever seen this Ruth card.  Thought his rookie card was from the Goudy series or something like that. Good to know.

The world's most expensive card is either the 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth PSA 4 (Probably a 3 to 5 million dollar card) or the T206 Honus Wagner PSA 8 (probably a 3 to 5 million dollar card) or one of the 3 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle's graded PSA 10 (who knows what one of these 3 would bring at auction it would most likely set a new world record for a sports card). No the 1933 Goudey is some of Ruth's (he has 4 different cards in that set) last cards released of him during his active playing career.

I have been collecting cards since 1989 and I have never seen a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle PSA 10 come up for sale threw a auction....the sales I have heard of where always private transaction. Last I heard someone offered 5 million dollars for one of the 3 PSA 10's and the owner refused to sell it.

You guys in the U.S have coins worth much more than any one of these cards or for that matter comic books. The 1849 20$ gold coin  (unique in a museum) has a estimated value of about 20-25 million dollars. And the 1794 U.S silver dollar in the highest grade last sold for 10 million dollars (first ever coin to be sold for that amount). There are a bunch more that are very expensive like 1913 liberty head nickel, the1894-S dime, the first gold coins ever minted the 1787 brasher doubloons (the rarest/unique being the one with the crest stamped in the middle of the coin the others withe the crest stamped to the side are also extremely rare as well) and so on and so on.

Edited March 29, 2017 by SupergirlDC19591

[entalmighty1]

10 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

Possible not but not likely.

People use to say (and still do by the way) the Mantle card will crash over and over again the price has risen you could have gotten a PSA 9 for maybe 50 000$ 10 years ago now you will pay 2.5 to 3 million dollars for the same exact same card and even more for a psa 10 (that goes for all grades).

I became a believer and then sold my 1952 Mantle for 13 000$ just 2 years later it is now a 40 000$ to 45 000$ card in the same exact grade.

Personally, I couldn't care less about the price of AF15.  I don't have one, and it's not something I really want in my collection because of the money it would tie up for things I'd rather have.

 

That being said, you have a lot of very serious collectors and dealers telling you to pump the brakes on hyping this book, but you continually turn a blind eye to massive amounts of experience and knowledge.  That's not smart.

[Spiderphill]

10 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

You can't compare a final hammer price with a book graded by CBCS versus the #1 grading company in the hobby CGC. Everyone knows CBCS brings much lower prices at auction. By the way the book you are talking about has both marvel chipping (and I have seen much worse amounts of it than what shown on this AF15 CBCS 5.0.....this is by no means the worst 5.0 when comes to chipping) and marvel pre-chipping.

But yes if the MC is major then it will affect the price much more than one that has only medium amounts of chipping or better only minor chipping or the least worst of the chipping options......that is pre-chipping.....then comes a book with no chipping at all. These would be the 5 categories I would base myself on before buying a book. What percentage each one brings is another matter (I simply do not know). In the end the interior counts as well as the back cover in making a proper judgement call before buying a book for it's overall grade (we are putting a lot on emphasis on marvel chipping so I add this so people do not forget the remaining factors on a book before spending big bucks).

In this market a clean CBCS 6.5 without chipping will destroy a clean CGC 6.5 with chipping. 

Chipped AF15 do not get premiums. 

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Just now, entalmighty1 said:

Personally, I couldn't care less about the price of AF15.  I don't have one, and it's not something I really want in my collection because of the money it would tie up for things I'd rather have.

 

That being said, you have a lot of very serious collectors and dealers telling you to pump the brakes on hyping this book, but you continually turn a blind eye to massive amounts of experience and knowledge.  That's not smart.

Hyping no...simply defending it.

[chrisco37]

11 hours ago, SupergirlDC19591 said:

A TRUE rare sale for CBCS maybe 1% of their books sell for more than the same graded copy by CGC. Most of CBCS's  books are over graded.

Most of us will not even buy a CBCS graded book......maybe it was someone new to the hobby that did not know any better.

The AF15 CBCS 5.0 is no way a CGC 5.0 equivalent maybe a CGC 4.0.

You're talking out of your behind.  The above comments are ridiculous.   I've subbed and bought both companies.   They pretty much have been in line with one another from what I've seen.  

My first sub to CBCS, I pre-graded going by what I thought they'd come back from CGC (I had no other frame of reference).  Got them all correct.   Only times I've ever been stunned by a submission were both with CGC; one was the first submission, so pretty common experience there, and the other made me very, very happy.