THE AMAZING FANTASY #15 CLUB 39 39

[Jordysnordy]

44 minutes ago, VintageComics said:

I tried to tell him politely.

 many of us have tried but 

[Moondog]

11 hours ago, zhamlau said:

I think the formula I've seen is this:

1. CGC Graded

2. No Chipping (at most one piece)

3. Good color on the suit and title.

If you book has all that, its gonna crush and seemingly outperform in today's market per GPA. If you have 2 of the 3 it will do well but more normal price range. If it has only 1 expect low average pricing. Page quality i think is about the most important part of a book but it doesn't seem to play into this push for new high prices on this book which REALLY surprises me.

I agree regarding PQ.  The $57K 5.0 had c/ow pages...

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, Moondog said:

14 hours ago, zhamlau said:

I think the formula I've seen is this:

1. CGC Graded

2. No Chipping (at most one piece)

3. Good color on the suit and title.

If you book has all that, its gonna crush and seemingly outperform in today's market per GPA. If you have 2 of the 3 it will do well but more normal price range. If it has only 1 expect low average pricing. Page quality i think is about the most important part of a book but it doesn't seem to play into this push for new high prices on this book which REALLY surprises me.

I agree regarding PQ.  The $57K 5.0 had c/ow pages...

I guess CR/OW must be the new and much coveted White Pages. 

Especially since the 'Tec 29, 'Tec 38, and the 5.0 copy of AF 15 all had the now coveted CR/OW PQ designation and we all know what happened to the prices on these 3 books.   

Edited March 30, 2017 by lou_fine

[cbbcomics]

12 hours ago, chrisco37 said:

I know this will seem like "pile on" at this point...if you don't like CBCS that's fine.  I take issue with you, more or less, saying that serious collectors will only consider CGC.  That's not the case.

I also take issue with your comments regarding over grading.  As I said, my experience is that they are close/same.  You've said yourself that you don't consider anything but CGC.  How can you provide an impartial opinion?

I agree that CGC, on the average, commands higher prices.  The facts/sales bare that out.  They are, and have been, the market leader for over 15 yrs. now.

 

Nice bomics

[G.A.tor]

Pq is still high on many collectors "wish" list. 

I personally prefer to buy no mc, ow or better sa keys. That's been my model for 15 years and it has served me well

 

that said, we adjust to the market. Recently I've bought several cr/ow af15s which in the past, I might have passed on, but these days I recognize the demand and have procured at a slight discount to ow or better books in same grade and same eye appeal range

 

[Jaydogrules]

-J.

[namisgr]

23 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Pq is still high on many collectors "wish" list. 

 

Recently I've bought several cr/ow af15s which in the past, I might have passed on, but these days I recognize the demand and have procured at a slight discount to ow or better books in same grade and same eye appeal range

 

So to paraphrase, you not only sell copies of AF15 with exceptional page quality for more to the many collectors that seek them, but you pay more for such copies when stocking them. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by namisgr

[Jaydogrules]

8 hours ago, Moondog said:

I agree regarding PQ.  The $57K 5.0 had c/ow pages...

So to paraphrase, a 5.0 copy with nice front cover eye appeal and "c/ow pages" on the label obliterated GPA on the open market.  

-J.

[G.A.tor]

7 minutes ago, namisgr said:

So to paraphrase, you not only sell copies of AF15 with exceptional page quality for more to the many collectors that seek them, but you pay more for such copies when stocking them. 

Of course...pq is a differential when it comes to sa keys. 

[Jaydogrules]

9 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Of course...pq is a differential when it comes to sa keys. 

Clearly not for everyone.... 

-J.

[zhamlau]

Do you think than, we are seeing a trend of maybe new money new collectors coming in and making a splash paying whatever they have to for books that look good on front views only? Like Maybe I'm off but it seems like a lot of these books of recent strong sales have had lower PQ and back covers. The real strengths they had were good color saturation, 1 or none chips, and that CGC blue logo. On ever other level many of them seemed to have issues bringing them back to the more standard or even lesser (with PQ) range of copies. Clearly the 5.5 CL sale puts a hole in the "every single copy has doubled this week, lets sell up and get rich!" theory. Im just trying to find the market drivers good and bad on this book and these prices and that's all I can come up with.

[G.A.tor]

43 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Clearly not for everyone.... 

-J.

Not everyone for sure. But as presented on these boards and in the market...the majority of folks

[G.A.tor]

40 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

Do you think than, we are seeing a trend of maybe new money new collectors coming in and making a splash paying whatever they have to for books that look good on front views only? Like Maybe I'm off but it seems like a lot of these books of recent strong sales have had lower PQ and back covers. The real strengths they had were good color saturation, 1 or none chips, and that CGC blue logo. On ever other level many of them seemed to have issues bringing them back to the more standard or even lesser (with PQ) range of copies. Clearly the 5.5 CL sale puts a hole in the "every single copy has doubled this week, lets sell up and get rich!" theory. Im just trying to find the market drivers good and bad on this book and these prices and that's all I can come up with.

 The real issue with some of these auctions is the lack of transparency   

 That's just it we don't know who is bidding , new or old , we don't know what the under bidders intentions are if any etc. etc. 

 So results like these have to be treated as outliers until the market further supports this price levels across many different venues 

[namisgr]

3 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Clearly not for everyone.... 

-J.

Your comment assumes that all other qualities are equal.  Instead, it's clear that upgrade potential can trump page quality for SA keys.  Who doesn't know that?

 

Imagine what that comic would have fetched if it had white pages and white cover stock. 

Edited March 30, 2017 by namisgr

[Jaydogrules]

23 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Not everyone for sure. But as presented on these boards and in the market...the majority of folks

The boards, possibly.  

"The market"?

That's highly debatable.

-J.

[VintageComics]

1 hour ago, G.A.tor said:

That's just it we don't know who is bidding , new or old , we don't know what the under bidders intentions are if any etc. etc.

This is what I've been saying from the beginning.

There is more than one factor to consider. You can't just look at something like the 5.0 auction and just assume this is the new price point for 5.0 copies, or that buyers don't care about PQ because it was a COW copy.

If someone sees possibility of improvement in a book that book is not selling for market value, it's going to sell well over market regardless of PQ, QP, etc.

It didn't hurt that a potentially improvable 9.0 led the way with a record price to create a frenzy as well (I saw the 9.0 in hand and it had many improvable aspects to it)

 

 

[G.A.tor]

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

The boards, possibly.  

"The market"?

That's highly debatable.

-J.

From my perspective, setting up at 100s of shows over past decade, and talking to thousands of collectors (surely a sample large enough to establish a "market" outside the cgc boards) , I can tell you with 100% certainly pq matters to the majority of collectors, and is a differential in purchasing decisions. 

Whether you acknowledge or not, is not relevant , and I can respect your opinion 

but my perspective is not an opinion solely formed by me, it is based on years and years of actually buying and selling and talking to a myriad of collectors from all ober the world (not just cgc boards or gpa results which are not applicable to the conversation in support of either position )

[Jaydogrules]

7 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

From my perspective, setting up at 100s of shows over past decade, and talking to thousands of collectors (surely a sample large enough to establish a "market" outside the cgc boards) , I can tell you with 100% certainly pq matters to the majority of collectors, and is a differential in purchasing decisions. 

Whether you acknowledge or not, is not relevant , and I can respect your opinion 

but my perspective is not an opinion solely formed by me, it is based on years and years of actually buying and selling and talking to a myriad of collectors from all ober the world (not just cgc boards or gpa results which are not applicable to the conversation in support of either position )

I respect your opinion and experiences as well.  

But I find ALL data to be pertinent and worthy of consideration, not only that which supports my own personal preconceived notions and/or biases. 

-J.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Jaydogrules

[G.A.tor]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

I respect your opinion and experiences as well.  

But I find ALL data to be pertinent and worthy of consideration, not only that which supports my own preconceived notions and/or biases. 

-J.

The majority of time gpa is not applicable (either way) because it's relatively infrequently occurring that books of the same grade with differing pq are auctioned or sold at same time in same venue for a comparison to be drawn 

 books sold even a week apart via a different venues, don't meet requirements to compare results (market doesn't stand still, it's constantly moving)

 

a true test  for someone (and I'm making assumptions you've haven't , so correct me if I'm wrong ) is to actually offer comparable copies with different pq at same time, at same venue, at differing pricing... this I and many dealers have done , generally at conventions , and 100% of the time the higher pq , at higher price has sold first. 

That tangible evidence, coupled with experience in actually selling over an extended period of time, is all I need to know until evidence to the contrary is presented and reinforced 

[Jaydogrules]

16 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

The majority of time gpa is not applicable (either way) because it's relatively infrequently occurring that books of the same grade with differing pq are auctioned or sold at same time in same venue for a comparison to be drawn 

 books sold even a week apart via a different venues, don't meet requirements to compare results (market doesn't stand still, it's constantly moving)

 

a true test  for someone (and I'm making assumptions you've haven't , so correct me if I'm wrong ) is to actually offer comparable copies with different pq at same time, at same venue, at differing pricing... this I and many dealers have done , generally at conventions , and 100% of the time the higher pq , at higher price has sold first. 

That tangible evidence, coupled with experience in actually selling over an extended period of time, is all I need to know until evidence to the contrary is presented and reinforced 

There's plenty of evidence to the contrary.  I'm telling you, I don't pay a premium based on the alleged "PQ" on the cover.  I've bought from you before and I've told you that.  Many other boardies here have come on and said the same thing.  For perhaps different reasons than me. But many others have said it.   I don't pay "extra" because I find the so-called "PQ" on the label and the way it's graded is wishy washy and inconsistent, and because CGC has specifically informed me that the "PQ" on the label is but a snap shot in time at the time of grading and is not necessarily indicative of it at the time of purchase, even under the most optimal of slab storing conditions.  Thus I put more weight on "eye appeal".  Clearly that is actually the direction "the market" is moving as well.  GPA certainly does not support any "premiums" one way or the other.  So you disregard it. Multiple recent sales clearly do not support a "premium" one way or the other.  So you disregard those.  Multiple boardies say they won't pay a "premium" one way or the other because the "PQ" on the label is often too inconsistent.  And you disregard that.  The evidence to the contrary is all around you.  It's overwhelming in fact. But you disregard it because of your own personal biases.  It's fine to have personal preferences, we all do.  Let's just all acknowledge them for what they are though, because one size clearly does NOT fit all in this hobby.  

Not by a long shot.  

-J.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Jaydogrules