Who leaves feedback first?

[Gatchaman]

I have read a lot of these discussions on eBay and a lot of buyers come up with the same answer that their part of the transaction is done at the pay button. If so, then the seller's part of the transaction is done as soon as the package hits the buyer's mailbox.

 

You will notice that I said, "end of transaction". Even for the buyer the transaction is not over until he/she is satisfied with the product. Comparing eBay to a retail store doesn't work, because the buyer has product in hand before they leave the store. Because of the way the transaction is handled through the mail and receiving item(s) sometime after purchase it has to be judged on that. The transaction involves choosing, purchasing, payment, delivery, and inspection of product. So many things can go wrong either by accident or by some type of scam by either buyer or seller. When all is said and done and both the buyer and seller are happy with the transaction, then they can leave feedback rating that transaction.

 

this argument has been made. You are arguing what is fair. I am arguing what is reality. Reality is buyers hold all the cards and you should give proper respect while everything is still good. Failing to do so may insult buyer, and have consequences. I'll say it again-think of it as a game. buyer is in the better position, withholding FB is a poor move.

 

Giving into a buyer's improper demand is not respect. That is like giving into a child when he throws a tantrum for what he wants. Buyers are MAKING sellers bend to their will and the more we give into it the more they want.

 

ps giving FB upon payment costs you nothing. What are you talking about demands/tantrums etc? See this is a mindset you have-an us vs them thing and it is coloring how you see the world.

 

No, it is not an "us vs them". Ebay has made feedback voluntary and can be left at any time. Meaning people can leave it at anytime they want or not at all, but buyers have made it part of their transaction and are forcing sellers to leave it when they want it and have even left NEG feedback for sellers based upon when if and when they do leave it completely leaving out everything else about the transaction. They have been asked, on eBay's forums, if they are here to buy items or to buy feedback because they push for it so much.

 

I also have done very well on eBay selling leaving feedback when I know the buyer is happy with their item.

 

The only coloring I see in this feedback argument is buyers crying about not getting feedback right away when it is voluntary. Read the boards sometime.

[slym2none]

Heh - I am on my own list, so IDK if that makes me such a reputable character.

 

::

 

That's what I've heard. ::

 

*EDIT* Nah, not gonna defend myself. Screw it.

 

 

 

-slym

[kav]

I have read a lot of these discussions on eBay and a lot of buyers come up with the same answer that their part of the transaction is done at the pay button. If so, then the seller's part of the transaction is done as soon as the package hits the buyer's mailbox.

 

You will notice that I said, "end of transaction". Even for the buyer the transaction is not over until he/she is satisfied with the product. Comparing eBay to a retail store doesn't work, because the buyer has product in hand before they leave the store. Because of the way the transaction is handled through the mail and receiving item(s) sometime after purchase it has to be judged on that. The transaction involves choosing, purchasing, payment, delivery, and inspection of product. So many things can go wrong either by accident or by some type of scam by either buyer or seller. When all is said and done and both the buyer and seller are happy with the transaction, then they can leave feedback rating that transaction.

 

this argument has been made. You are arguing what is fair. I am arguing what is reality. Reality is buyers hold all the cards and you should give proper respect while everything is still good. Failing to do so may insult buyer, and have consequences. I'll say it again-think of it as a game. buyer is in the better position, withholding FB is a poor move.

 

Giving into a buyer's improper demand is not respect. That is like giving into a child when he throws a tantrum for what he wants. Buyers are MAKING sellers bend to their will and the more we give into it the more they want.

 

ps giving FB upon payment costs you nothing. What are you talking about demands/tantrums etc? See this is a mindset you have-an us vs them thing and it is coloring how you see the world.

 

No, it is not an "us vs them". Ebay has made feedback voluntary and can be left at any time. Meaning people can leave it at anytime they want or not at all, but buyers have made it part of their transaction and are forcing sellers to leave it when they want it and have even left NEG feedback for sellers based upon when if and when they do leave it completely leaving out everything else about the transaction. They have been asked, on eBay's forums, if they are here to buy items or to buy feedback because they push for it so much.

 

I also have done very well on eBay selling leaving feedback when I know the buyer is happy with their item.

 

The only coloring I see in this feedback argument is buyers crying about not getting feedback right away when it is voluntary. Read the boards sometime.

 

i read the boards constantly in case you haven't noticed. and you missed my point entirely-I do not 'cry' when i dont get FB from a seller-It doesn't impact me. All I am doing is giving advice to sellers: it may insult some buyers and is therefore a bad move. I've said this 5 times now and people keep wanting to argue against an argument I'm not making, just to be right.

[slym2none]

Kav - this is about the time that I would post "OK" and move on.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[kav]

Ok

[Gatchaman]

i read the boards constantly in case you haven't noticed. and you missed my point entirely-I do not 'cry' when i dont get FB from a seller-It doesn't impact me. All I am doing is giving advice to sellers: it may insult some buyers and is therefore a bad move. I've said this 5 times now and people keep wanting to argue against an argument I'm not making, just to be right.

 

I see what you are saying, but the advice you are giving is not what defines a good seller. So, in spite of shipping quickly, packaging securely, having item as described, and good communication doesn't mean anything if feedback isn't left immediately upon payment.

 

[ttfitz]

do i really have to reply to that ridiculous question? Sigh. Ok I don't need the goodwill if I am a buyer-I hold all the cards. I can get a refund if I need one....this is not rocket science...

one more time I'll say it-why withhold FB as a seller when it accomplishes nothing and may irritate the buyer, who holds all the cards? This is simple game theory-a move which has no benefit and possible detriment against an opponent in a stronger position is a bad move.

 

Of course it's a ridiculous question - nobody in their right mind would leave positive feedback for a seller without knowing that they had fulfilled the transaction. I had to ask, though, given your stance on the other side of the transaction being just that.

 

And who said anything about withholding feedback? Certainly not me - I leave feedback the same way, whether I am a buyer or seller: once the transaction is completed satisfactorily.

 

But in the spirit of full disclosure, I believe many times as a seller I have actually given feedback shortly after payment was received. Don't remember why, it's been a while. But I can tell you, almost every time I did so, the buyer never left feedback at all, despite everything going well. I've got 100% feedback, so I guess it hasn't hurt anything, but as I said, most of that is as a buyer, so I really could use more feedback from buyers. But I guess you'd say that those buyers who got immediate positive from me could still "feel" that I was a negative Nancy...

[ttfitz]

Heh - I am on my own list, so IDK if that makes me such a reputable character.

 

::

 

That's what I've heard. ::

 

*EDIT* Nah, not gonna defend myself. Screw it.

 

 

 

-slym

 

I read your original message, and I would agree, you have no need to defend yourself. Just to be clear, I DID laugh when I read your message about being on your own list. I'm not planning on adding names from that list to my blocked buyers - although I might give it a look when I sell something from now on.

[jimbo_707]

In the early days of E-Bay, the page explaining feedback specifically stated that the seller should leave positive feedback upon receipt of payment and the buyer should leave feedback upon receipt of the item. That verbiage is history, but I still go by it.

 

Some sellers were not following those guidelines. They were keeping their feedback scores high by refusing to leave positive feedback unless they received it first and then leaving retaliatory negative feedback if they received a neg.

 

I wouldn't play that game. I was always willing to leave a neg for bad service even if I hadn't received feedback myself. (I only had to do it once that I remember.)

[slym2none]

Heh - I am on my own list, so IDK if that makes me such a reputable character.

 

::

 

That's what I've heard. ::

 

*EDIT* Nah, not gonna defend myself. Screw it.

 

I read your original message, and I would agree, you have no need to defend yourself. Just to be clear, I DID laugh when I read your message about being on your own list. I'm not planning on adding names from that list to my blocked buyers - although I might give it a look when I sell something from now on.

 

I use the list like this: I read someones complaint about a person on eBay and decide if I want to block them myself. Some cases are clear-cut that the buyer is not worth it, others not so much. I definitely can't go with just copying someone else' long list of names.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

i read the boards constantly in case you haven't noticed. and you missed my point entirely-I do not 'cry' when i dont get FB from a seller-It doesn't impact me. All I am doing is giving advice to sellers: it may insult some buyers and is therefore a bad move. I've said this 5 times now and people keep wanting to argue against an argument I'm not making, just to be right.

 

I see what you are saying, but the advice you are giving is not what defines a good seller. So, in spite of shipping quickly, packaging securely, having item as described, and good communication doesn't mean anything if feedback isn't left immediately upon payment.

 

This difference of opinion will never be sorted out. Probably best to just move on, man.

 

 

 

-slym

[BeachBum]

As a seller, I have my eBay system setup to automatically leave feedback when I receive feedback from the buyer. This way I know the buyer has received the item, plus it saves me the time of entering feedback manually.

 

I used to leave feedback as soon as a buyer paid but I've run into a couple of knuckleheads as of late that made me stop that practice. Back in late December I received this rant from a buyer -

 

"OK, your system is setup so I will NEVER leave you feedback. I will only leave feedback as a buyer when I get feedback first. So you system is gonna screw you and I WILL NEVER BUY FROM YOU AGAIN. BYE, BYE."

 

Well guess what? His e-check payment bounced even though PayPal said it had cleared. I had to deal with a chargeback from his bank that PayPal covered. Also - he tried to stealth "1" DSR me across the board on a completely separate cancelled transaction he requested. He left positive feedback on the item but managed to leave 1 DSRs on everything including shipping & shipping cost even though the item never shipped + the shipping was free. Some sort of glitch in the eBay system with cancelled transactions. eBay removed all the DSRs right away.

[passion4comics]

As a seller, I have my eBay system setup to automatically leave feedback when I receive feedback from the buyer. This way I know the buyer has received the item, plus it saves me the time of entering feedback manually.

 

I used to leave feedback as soon as a buyer paid but I've run into a couple of knuckleheads as of late that made me stop that practice. Back in late December I received this rant from a buyer -

 

"OK, your system is setup so I will NEVER leave you feedback. I will only leave feedback as a buyer when I get feedback first. So you system is gonna screw you and I WILL NEVER BUY FROM YOU AGAIN. BYE, BYE."

 

Well guess what? His e-check payment bounced even though PayPal said it had cleared. I had to deal with a chargeback from his bank that PayPal covered. Also - he tried to stealth "1" DSR me across the board on a completely separate cancelled transaction he requested. He left positive feedback on the item but managed to leave 1 DSRs on everything including shipping & shipping cost even though the item never shipped + the shipping was free. Some sort of glitch in the eBay system with cancelled transactions. eBay removed all the DSRs right away.

 

Interesting.... If Paypal says an e-check cleared and then it bounces, who is ultimately responsible? Did they just own up to it or did they fight it?

[BeachBum]

As a seller, I have my eBay system setup to automatically leave feedback when I receive feedback from the buyer. This way I know the buyer has received the item, plus it saves me the time of entering feedback manually.

 

I used to leave feedback as soon as a buyer paid but I've run into a couple of knuckleheads as of late that made me stop that practice. Back in late December I received this rant from a buyer -

 

"OK, your system is setup so I will NEVER leave you feedback. I will only leave feedback as a buyer when I get feedback first. So you system is gonna screw you and I WILL NEVER BUY FROM YOU AGAIN. BYE, BYE."

 

Well guess what? His e-check payment bounced even though PayPal said it had cleared. I had to deal with a chargeback from his bank that PayPal covered. Also - he tried to stealth "1" DSR me across the board on a completely separate cancelled transaction he requested. He left positive feedback on the item but managed to leave 1 DSRs on everything including shipping & shipping cost even though the item never shipped + the shipping was free. Some sort of glitch in the eBay system with cancelled transactions. eBay removed all the DSRs right away.

 

Interesting.... If Paypal says an e-check cleared and then it bounces, who is ultimately responsible? Did they just own up to it or did they fight it?

 

I guess it's PayPal's fault - but I tell you the guy had issues. He had two separate e-check payments. Both bounced at first and were re-subbed, then they both cleared, but apparently one didn't. I mailed the items as soon as PayPal told me they had cleared.

[slym2none]

What is this guys' eBay ID??

 

 

 

-slym

[Hulksdaddy1]

What is this guys' eBay ID??

 

 

 

-slym

 

kavwantshisfeedback

 

[slym2none]

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

As a seller, I have my eBay system setup to automatically leave feedback when I receive feedback from the buyer. This way I know the buyer has received the item, plus it saves me the time of entering feedback manually.

 

I used to leave feedback as soon as a buyer paid but I've run into a couple of knuckleheads as of late that made me stop that practice. Back in late December I received this rant from a buyer -

 

"OK, your system is setup so I will NEVER leave you feedback. I will only leave feedback as a buyer when I get feedback first. So you system is gonna screw you and I WILL NEVER BUY FROM YOU AGAIN. BYE, BYE."

 

Well guess what? His e-check payment bounced even though PayPal said it had cleared. I had to deal with a chargeback from his bank that PayPal covered. Also - he tried to stealth "1" DSR me across the board on a completely separate cancelled transaction he requested. He left positive feedback on the item but managed to leave 1 DSRs on everything including shipping & shipping cost even though the item never shipped + the shipping was free. Some sort of glitch in the eBay system with cancelled transactions. eBay removed all the DSRs right away.

 

Interesting.... If Paypal says an e-check cleared and then it bounces, who is ultimately responsible? Did they just own up to it or did they fight it?

 

I guess it's PayPal's fault - but I tell you the guy had issues. He had two separate e-check payments. Both bounced at first and were re-subbed, then they both cleared, but apparently one didn't. I mailed the items as soon as PayPal told me they had cleared.

 

For clarity this time - hey, BeachBum, what is this guy's eBay ID? PM me if you don't want it publicly shared.

 

 

 

-slym

[kav]

I think I found beachbum's ID:

http://s262.photobucket.com/user/promlmatho/media/669_0_Ty_Coughlin.mp4.html

[USArmyParatrooper]

As a buyer, I won't leave feedback for the seller unless they give me feedback first. They need that feedback more than I do and feedback left for me should not depend on whether or not I leave positive feedback.

 

Did I pay on time? Did I cause any communication issues? Then give me feedback.

 

So in your opinion all the buyers in the "buyers to block" thread are deserving of positive feedback?

 

EBay is different from a retail store in that the seller is taking on all the risk in the transaction.