Traded: CGC 4.0 AF15 and CGC 9.6 TMNT 1 1 1

[slym2none]

 

 

 

-slym

[Dark Knight]

Gimme an AF 15 over a TMNT 1 any time of the day!

[oakman29]

Gimme an AF 15 over a TMNT 1 any time of the day!

 

Im of the mindset to own both.

[Jaydogrules]

No doubt AF15 4.0 is the more expensive book right now, maybe 20-25% higher. And Spider-Man will always, in all probability, be a bigger character.

 

But, like IH1 and SH4, whose characters also are less popular that Spider-Man, but whose prices keep rising based mostly on lower numbers, TMNT1 9.6 can catch up, and possibly surpass, AF15 4.0. Time will tell.

 

Census:

 

AF15 - 2492

 

IH1 - 1286

 

TMNT1 - 664

 

SH4 - 355

 

 

 

TMNT1 9.6 - 41

 

AF15 4.0 - 224

 

 

 

 

This debate was rightfully put to bed two years ago.

 

Yes there are much less TMNT 1's in a 9 6 than AF 15's in a 4.0 on the census.

 

And it still doesn't matter.

 

AF 15 will always be a far more desirable book. Period.

 

Someone has said a few times (I think the OP), in an apparent attempt to demonstrate that the smaller numbers of TMNT in a 9.6, as established by the poll results (at that time), "should" make the TMNT more valuable because there were more people voting for the TMNT than the amount of copies at that grade in existence.

 

Well since this poll was resurrected people have continued to vote. Not counting restored copies of AF 15 in a 4.0 (since it is unfair to count those in the tally since those books aren't really 4.0's, they are "apparent" 4.0's) there are actually only 176 copies of AF 15 in that grade.

 

And as of now, 295 people have voted for that, compared to just 88 for the TMNT.

 

Or, put another way, according to the poll, only 47 people more than copies exist of a TMNT 1 in a 9.6 would want a copy.

 

Whereas 119 more people than copies exist would want the AF 15. A differential of over 250%.

 

People can have their sentimental favourites, but It's just no contest, and there is no rational comparison between the two books on any level.

 

-J.

 

 

[Legion of Goom]

No doubt AF15 4.0 is the more expensive book right now, maybe 20-25% higher. And Spider-Man will always, in all probability, be a bigger character.

 

But, like IH1 and SH4, whose characters also are less popular that Spider-Man, but whose prices keep rising based mostly on lower numbers, TMNT1 9.6 can catch up, and possibly surpass, AF15 4.0. Time will tell.

 

Census:

 

AF15 - 2492

 

IH1 - 1286

 

TMNT1 - 664

 

SH4 - 355

 

 

 

TMNT1 9.6 - 41

 

AF15 4.0 - 224

 

 

 

 

This debate was rightfully put to bed two years ago.

 

Yes there are much less TMNT 1's in a 9 6 than AF 15's in a 4.0 on the census.

 

And it still doesn't matter.

 

AF 15 will always be a far more desirable book. Period.

 

Someone has said a few times (I think the OP), in an apparent attempt to demonstrate that the smaller numbers of TMNT in a 9.6, as established by the poll results (at that time), "should" make the TMNT more valuable because there were more people voting for the TMNT than the amount of copies at that grade in existence.

 

Well since this poll was resurrected people have continued to vote. Not counting restored copies of AF 15 in a 4.0 (since it is unfair to count those in the tally since those books aren't really 4.0's, they are "apparent" 4.0's) there are actually only 176 copies of AF 15 in that grade.

 

And as of now, 295 people have voted for that, compared to just 88 for the TMNT.

 

Or, put another way, according to the poll, only 47 people more than copies exist of a TMNT 1 in a 9.6 would want a copy.

 

Whereas 119 more people than copies exist would want the AF 15. A differential of over 250%.

 

People can have their sentimental favourites, but It's just no contest, and there is no rational comparison between the two books on any level.

 

-J.

 

 

AF doesn't have to have more absolute votes for your thesis to be backed up. It needs to have 4.29 times more absolute votes (429%). That accounts for the difference in supply. With those numbers, the minimum number of votes necessary for AF to the same scarcity/demand factor as the TMNT would be 378.

 

176/41= 4.29

 

4.29*88=377.52

[Jaydogrules]

No doubt AF15 4.0 is the more expensive book right now, maybe 20-25% higher. And Spider-Man will always, in all probability, be a bigger character.

 

But, like IH1 and SH4, whose characters also are less popular that Spider-Man, but whose prices keep rising based mostly on lower numbers, TMNT1 9.6 can catch up, and possibly surpass, AF15 4.0. Time will tell.

 

Census:

 

AF15 - 2492

 

IH1 - 1286

 

TMNT1 - 664

 

SH4 - 355

 

 

 

TMNT1 9.6 - 41

 

AF15 4.0 - 224

 

 

 

 

This debate was rightfully put to bed two years ago.

 

Yes there are much less TMNT 1's in a 9 6 than AF 15's in a 4.0 on the census.

 

And it still doesn't matter.

 

AF 15 will always be a far more desirable book. Period.

 

Someone has said a few times (I think the OP), in an apparent attempt to demonstrate that the smaller numbers of TMNT in a 9.6, as established by the poll results (at that time), "should" make the TMNT more valuable because there were more people voting for the TMNT than the amount of copies at that grade in existence.

 

Well since this poll was resurrected people have continued to vote. Not counting restored copies of AF 15 in a 4.0 (since it is unfair to count those in the tally since those books aren't really 4.0's, they are "apparent" 4.0's) there are actually only 176 copies of AF 15 in that grade.

 

And as of now, 295 people have voted for that, compared to just 88 for the TMNT.

 

Or, put another way, according to the poll, only 47 people more than copies exist of a TMNT 1 in a 9.6 would want a copy.

 

Whereas 119 more people than copies exist would want the AF 15. A differential of over 250%.

 

People can have their sentimental favourites, but It's just no contest, and there is no rational comparison between the two books on any level.

 

-J.

 

 

AF doesn't have to have more absolute votes for your thesis to be backed up. It needs to have 4.29 times more absolute votes (429%). That accounts for the difference in supply. With those numbers, the minimum number of votes necessary for AF to the same scarcity/demand factor as the TMNT would be 378.

 

176/41= 4.29

 

4.29*88=377.52

 

This is mathematically correct , but fails in the real-world since the demand for TMNT #1 is not equal to the demand for an AF 15 (hence why the AF 15 sells for markedly more in spite of the greater supply ).

 

I was simply applying the same absolute methodology as the OP did when he originally made his statement on the matter.

 

-J.

[Legion of Goom]

Gotcha. Just came in to the thread for the last bit of it and hadn't tracked it from the beginning.

 

My 2 cents: AF will always have more absolute fans across all grades, and the staying power even in lower, more plentiful grades is impressive. If you want liquidity and stability, that's the horse to bet on. That said, if I were looking for growth and had plenty of time on my side, I'd stick to the ultra-high grade TMNT. The leverage of the book's scarcity swings both ways, but in the long run, I think there's more upside left in the book.

 

In the short run, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a post-movie dip in TMNT with the the pop it's had off of a decent # of high-grade sales. I'd do what I could to buy into that weakness if more copies get drawn out and the price dips.

 

Ultimately, these are both winning books.

[Hulksdaddy1]

No doubt AF15 4.0 is the more expensive book right now, maybe 20-25% higher. And Spider-Man will always, in all probability, be a bigger character.

 

But, like IH1 and SH4, whose characters also are less popular that Spider-Man, but whose prices keep rising based mostly on lower numbers, TMNT1 9.6 can catch up, and possibly surpass, AF15 4.0. Time will tell.

 

Census:

 

AF15 - 2492

 

IH1 - 1286

 

TMNT1 - 664

 

SH4 - 355

 

 

 

TMNT1 9.6 - 41

 

AF15 4.0 - 224

 

 

 

 

This debate was rightfully put to bed two years ago.

 

Yes there are much less TMNT 1's in a 9 6 than AF 15's in a 4.0 on the census.

 

And it still doesn't matter.

 

AF 15 will always be a far more desirable book. Period.

 

Someone has said a few times (I think the OP), in an apparent attempt to demonstrate that the smaller numbers of TMNT in a 9.6, as established by the poll results (at that time), "should" make the TMNT more valuable because there were more people voting for the TMNT than the amount of copies at that grade in existence.

 

Well since this poll was resurrected people have continued to vote. Not counting restored copies of AF 15 in a 4.0 (since it is unfair to count those in the tally since those books aren't really 4.0's, they are "apparent" 4.0's) there are actually only 176 copies of AF 15 in that grade.

 

And as of now, 295 people have voted for that, compared to just 88 for the TMNT.

 

Or, put another way, according to the poll, only 47 people more than copies exist of a TMNT 1 in a 9.6 would want a copy.

 

Whereas 119 more people than copies exist would want the AF 15. A differential of over 250%.

 

People can have their sentimental favourites, but It's just no contest, and there is no rational comparison between the two books on any level.

 

-J.

 

 

When it comes to the future, NOTHING is put to bed.

 

It's not about AF15 vs TMNT1. It's about AF15 4.0 vs TMNT1 9.6. As I said, right now, AF15 4.0 is ahead. Might always stay ahead.

 

But then again, might not. Will AF15 ALWAYS be the more desirable book? If I offered you an AF15 2.0 or a TMNT1 9.8 , betcha ya'd never even consider taking the AF15. So, it's obviously not ALWAYS the more desirable book. There are multiple factors at play.

 

I think it's possible that there will come a time when TMNT1 9.6 is more desirable than an AF15 4.0. Nothing is put to bed when a possibility exists.

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

Gimme an AF 15 over a TMNT 1 any time of the day!

 

Im of the mindset to own both.

 

This.

 

/thread.

 

 

[Dark Knight]

Gimme an AF 15 over a TMNT 1 any time of the day!

 

Im of the mindset to own both.

 

This.

 

/thread.

 

 

Not saying that a TMNT 1 is a bad book to own. When it comes down to my own personal preference, I'd take the AF 15. TMNT 1 doesn't do anything to me really. Never had any desire to own it.

[jaybuck43]

 

[MustEatBrains]

I think it boils down to personal preference. Regardless of what the census says I'd take an AF15 4.0 over the TMNT 9.6 any day.

 

Unless Megan Fox comes with the TMNT...

[SupergirlDC1959]

Well this CGC 9.6 TMNT #1 that also contained the following witch most do not....it was signed by the creators and it contained an original sketch of one of the turtles in it (this alone should boost the value a lot higher one would think) just sold for 11 352$ on Heritage.

 

Link:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/a/7137-91186.s?ic3=ViewItem-Auction-Preview-BrowseThisAuction-120115

 

And the winner is AF15 CGC 4.0!!

Edited May 13, 2016 by Hulk1962

[Broke as a Joke]

Well this CGC 9.6 TMNT #1 that also contained the following witch most do not....it was signed by the creators and it contained an original sketch of one of the turtles in it (this alone should boost the value a lot higher one would think) just sold for 11 352$ on Heritage.

 

Link:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/a/7137-91186.s?ic3=ViewItem-Auction-Preview-BrowseThisAuction-120115

 

And the winner is AF15 CGC 4.0!!

 

I don't think that signed and sketched copies necessarily increase value on a book like TMNT 1. I know many people, including myself, would prefer to have no markings on the book.

[SupergirlDC1959]

Here is a AF15 CGC 4.0 that sold on Heritage in May of 2016 for almost 14 500$.

 

Link:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vg-40-off-white-pages/a/121619-12178.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Edited May 13, 2016 by Hulk1962

[Icculus308win]

Well this CGC 9.6 TMNT #1 that also contained the following witch most do not....it was signed by the creators and it contained an original sketch of one of the turtles in it (this alone should boost the value a lot higher one would think) just sold for 11 352$ on Heritage.

 

Link:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/a/7137-91186.s?ic3=ViewItem-Auction-Preview-BrowseThisAuction-120115

 

And the winner is AF15 CGC 4.0!!

 

I don't think that signed and sketched copies necessarily increase value on a book like TMNT 1. I know many people, including myself, would prefer to have no markings on the book.

 

These sigs and sketch are inside on the interior cover.

 

I owned a 9.6 blue label ow/w with their sigs and sketch(es) same page.

For me it was the best of both worlds. I'm not a huge SS guy, so to have this on the inside, certified by CGC on a blue label - was awesome imho.

I know I paid a premium for mine, but that was years ago, when there weren't but I think just that one floating around. Now it seems there are at least 3 signed, or signed and sketched blue label 9.6s - possibly more.

 

[Jaydogrules]

Well this CGC 9.6 TMNT #1 that also contained the following witch most do not....it was signed by the creators and it contained an original sketch of one of the turtles in it (this alone should boost the value a lot higher one would think) just sold for 11 352$ on Heritage.

 

Link:

 

http://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/alternative-underground/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-96-white-pages/a/7137-91186.s?ic3=ViewItem-Auction-Preview-BrowseThisAuction-120115

 

And the winner is AF15 CGC 4.0!!

 

I don't think that signed and sketched copies officenecessarily increase value on a book like TMNT 1. I know many people, including myself, would prefer to have no markings on the book.

 

Agreed. For every person who might have paid a small "premium" for the unverified sigs and sketch on the TMNT 1, 9.6, you had a person who didn't bid at all because of them. So it's a wash.

 

That's still a decent result and good $ increase from a year ago for a 9.6, but yeah, still about $3k less than and AF 15, 4.0.

 

-J.

[grayzr]

AF 15 is the better deal. TMNT 1 is not even their first appearance according to Turtles collectors.

 

So what would be considered their first appearance?

[SupergirlDC1959]

Gobbledygook #1 (only 50 ever made/printed in white and black....imagine that TMNT #1 had 3000 printed). CGC will not grade them since it is to hard to distinguish a fake/counterfeit from a real one. The is also a Gobbledygook #2 I believe only 50 where printed as well. I was going to buy a Gobbledygook #1 a few years back till I could not find one graded by CGC then was told what I just mentioned above as why they do not grade them (to many fakes out there). One grading company will grade them (PGX) but if CGC will not take that risk neither am I with the chance of it been a fake. So in the end I will never buy one even if one day CGC decides to go ahead and grade them (that will most likely never happen).

 

Gobbledygook #1 and #2 would be worth a lot more that TMNT #1 if this was not the case. They are already worth a lot without CGC grading any of them.

 

 

 

Here is one graded by PGX (Maybe a counterfeit and maybe a real one no one will ever truly know):

 

Edited May 14, 2016 by Hulk1962

[oakman29]

Gobbledygook #1 (only 50 ever made/printed in white and black....imagine that TMNT #1 had 3000 printed). CGC will not grade them since it is to hard to distinguish a fake/counterfeit from a real one. The is also a Gobbledygook #2 I believe only 50 where printed as well. I was going to buy a Gobbledygook #1 a few years back till I could not find one graded by CGC then was told what I just mentioned above as why they do not grade them (to many fakes out there). One grading company will grade them (PGX) but if CGC will not take that risk neither am I with the chance of it been a fake. So in the end I will never buy one even if one day CGC decides to go ahead and grade them (that will most likely never happen).

 

Gobbledygook #1 and #2 would be worth a lot more that TMNT #1 if this was not the case. They are already worth a lot without CGC grading any of them.

 

 

 

Here is one graded by PGX (Maybe a counterfeit and maybe a real one no one will ever truly know):

 

 

That was only an advertisement for TMNT 1. If ads are considered 1st appearances, then a book like DeadWorld 10 would be Crows 1st app.? See how silly that sounds.