Traded: CGC 4.0 AF15 and CGC 9.6 TMNT 1 1 1

[thirdgreenham]

An awful lot of what I collect rules and what you collect sucks in this thread.

 

havent heard anyone who preferred the TMNT actually disparage the AF15 (unless you call saying that the "book is more common" disparaging)

 

 

Greggy disparaged the AF15.

I disparaged low grade books, dumbarse.

 

Your insults bounce off me.

[valiantman]

There are currently 112 votes for CGC 4.0 Amazing Fantasy #15.

There are currently 40 votes for CGC 9.6 TMNT #1.

 

Assuming those 112 who voted for the CGC 4.0 Amazing Fantasy #15 would also be happy with any higher grade... there are 581 copies available. That's over 5 copies per voter.

If everyone had the money, everyone could have the book.

 

Assuming those 40 who voted for the CGC 9.6 TMNT #1 would also be happy with any higher grade... there are 38 copies available.

There aren't enough for 1 each.

No amount of money satisfies all 40 people with 38 books.

 

[mysterio]

I traded my CGC 4.0 AF15 for CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

If you have checked my recent posts, you'll know that Spiderman-on-Tilt was the other party involved.

 

He now has the CGC 4.0 AF15. IT IS NOT FOR SALE.

For those of you attempting to obtain the book from him... kindly stop it.

His name is Spiderman-on-Tilt, and I promise you, he doesn't want to sell his AF15.

(He told me he's getting offers due to my post, and he wished I hadn't posted this topic and poll, so I'm partially responsible for annoying him and I'm trying to fix it.)

 

I had two copies of AF15. The other is a CGC 2.0, but it was the first I ever bought, so I'm happy to keep it.

 

Now, I also have CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

Why would I do this trade, which is so obviously lopsided against me?

 

Well, first reason, because I had two copies of AF15 and none of TMNT 1.

 

Second reason, because I bought the CGC 4.0 AF15 in 2009 for a normal 2009 GPA price of $5,200.

 

In 2009, there was not a single sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

None in 2008.

The last CGC 9.6 sale in 2007 was for $9,668.

 

What I could afford for AF15 for $5,200 in 2009 was barely half of a CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

Now I have the whole thing.

 

Next point...

 

A CGC 6.0 of TMNT 1 recently sold for $1,950.

 

Name another key issue that sells for $1,950 in CGC 6.0 which can be purchased in CGC 9.6 for under $10,000.

 

Go ahead.

 

Try.

 

Avengers 4 CGC 6.0 sells for $1,000... the 9.6 costs $20,000. 20 times higher.

Batman 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $300... the 9.6 costs $4,200. 14 times higher.

Batman 227 CGC 6.0 sells for $160... the 9.6 costs $2,000. 12 times higher.

Fantastic Four 48 CGC 6.0 sells for $370... the 9.6 costs $3,700... 10 times higher.

Hulk 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $700... the 9.6 costs $4,000. 6 times higher... and there are 217 of them, with 75 copies higher than 9.6.

 

Amazing Fantasy CGC 6.0 sells for $18,000... the 9.6 costs a million dollars... 55 times higher.

That's a special case, of course, but the CGC 9.0 AF15 costs $190,000... that's 10 times the 6.0.

 

Let's face it... key books in 9.6 cost at least 10 times more than their 6.0 values... unless there are PLENTY available (Hulk 181).

Even with Hulk 181, you're talking about 6 times the 6.0 value.

 

TMNT CGC 6.0 sells for $1,950... the 9.6 costs under $8,000. 4 times higher.

At 6 times higher, it's a $12,000 book.

At 10 times higher, it's a $20,000 book.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND...

 

What determines the price of CGC 4.0 AF #15? Well, the 4.5... minus a little.

What determines the price of CGC 4.5 AF #15? The 5.0... minus a little.

5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, etc., etc.,

 

The value of Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 4.0 is capped by 13 higher grades... each capping the one just below it.

 

The value of TMNT #1 CGC 9.6 is capped by one higher grade.

 

I'm in the minority in my vote... but let's face it...

there's a very good chance I win this... soon.

 

I just traded a $5,200 investment... which has almost doubled... for a book that is valued about half of what it should be.

 

Bargain.

 

If not... I still have my other AF #15.

 

I can't lose.

 

 

This is a well-reasoned argument and well thought-out post. I can easily see why you made the trade you did, and kudos for that. But if SOT is annoyed with you for starting this thread and poll, and you're trying to fix that (to loosely quote you from up top) I'm sort of failing to see that in your post here. Maybe it is me.

[valiantman]

if SOT is annoyed with you for starting this thread and poll, and you're trying to fix that (to loosely quote you from up top) I'm sort of failing to see that in your post here. Maybe it is me.

He's more private with his collection and business deals than I am.

My post allowed people to know about his trade because I was talking about my trade.

I was asking people to leave him alone because I'm the reason they started contacting him.

 

He's happy with the trade and with his book... and the majority agree with him.

Nothing I am saying will make it a bad deal for him.

 

My post was explaining why I'm also happy with the trade, and what I was thinking...

seeing the results of the poll that most voters would not have done what I did.

[Jaydogrules]

if SOT is annoyed with you for starting this thread and poll, and you're trying to fix that (to loosely quote you from up top) I'm sort of failing to see that in your post here. Maybe it is me.

He's more private with his collection and business deals than I am.

My post allowed people to know about his trade because I was talking about my trade.

I was asking people to leave him alone because I'm the reason they started contacting him.

 

He's happy with the trade and with his book... and the majority agree with him.

Nothing I am saying will make it a bad deal for him.

 

My post was explaining why I'm also happy with the trade, and what I was thinking...

seeing the results of the poll that most voters would not have done what I did.

 

I'm no psychologist but it seems you are seeking validation for your decision to make the trade. I say, don't worry about it. If u got a book you wanted, be happy with it. Always look forward.

 

-J.

[valiantman]

I'm no psychologist but it seems you are seeking validation for your decision to make the trade. I say, don't worry about it. If u got a book you wanted, be happy with it. Always look forward.

I'm not seeking validation... it's the biggest event in the history of my collection and I wanted to TALK about it with people who have some idea what I'm saying. (That rules out family, friends, and co-workers in the 'real world'... so you virtual world guys are it!)

 

[chrisco37]

I traded my CGC 4.0 AF15 for CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

If you have checked my recent posts, you'll know that Spiderman-on-Tilt was the other party involved.

 

He now has the CGC 4.0 AF15. IT IS NOT FOR SALE.

For those of you attempting to obtain the book from him... kindly stop it.

His name is Spiderman-on-Tilt, and I promise you, he doesn't want to sell his AF15.

(He told me he's getting offers due to my post, and he wished I hadn't posted this topic and poll, so I'm partially responsible for annoying him and I'm trying to fix it.)

 

I had two copies of AF15. The other is a CGC 2.0, but it was the first I ever bought, so I'm happy to keep it.

 

Now, I also have CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

Why would I do this trade, which is so obviously lopsided against me?

 

Well, first reason, because I had two copies of AF15 and none of TMNT 1.

 

Second reason, because I bought the CGC 4.0 AF15 in 2009 for a normal 2009 GPA price of $5,200.

 

In 2009, there was not a single sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

None in 2008.

The last CGC 9.6 sale in 2007 was for $9,668.

 

What I could afford for AF15 for $5,200 in 2009 was barely half of a CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

Now I have the whole thing.

 

Next point...

 

A CGC 6.0 of TMNT 1 recently sold for $1,950.

 

Name another key issue that sells for $1,950 in CGC 6.0 which can be purchased in CGC 9.6 for under $10,000.

 

Go ahead.

 

Try.

 

Avengers 4 CGC 6.0 sells for $1,000... the 9.6 costs $20,000. 20 times higher.

Batman 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $300... the 9.6 costs $4,200. 14 times higher.

Batman 227 CGC 6.0 sells for $160... the 9.6 costs $2,000. 12 times higher.

Fantastic Four 48 CGC 6.0 sells for $370... the 9.6 costs $3,700... 10 times higher.

Hulk 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $700... the 9.6 costs $4,000. 6 times higher... and there are 217 of them, with 75 copies higher than 9.6.

 

Amazing Fantasy CGC 6.0 sells for $18,000... the 9.6 costs a million dollars... 55 times higher.

That's a special case, of course, but the CGC 9.0 AF15 costs $190,000... that's 10 times the 6.0.

 

Let's face it... key books in 9.6 cost at least 10 times more than their 6.0 values... unless there are PLENTY available (Hulk 181).

Even with Hulk 181, you're talking about 6 times the 6.0 value.

 

TMNT CGC 6.0 sells for $1,950... the 9.6 costs under $8,000. 4 times higher.

At 6 times higher, it's a $12,000 book.

At 10 times higher, it's a $20,000 book.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND...

 

What determines the price of CGC 4.0 AF #15? Well, the 4.5... minus a little.

What determines the price of CGC 4.5 AF #15? The 5.0... minus a little.

5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, etc., etc.,

 

The value of Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 4.0 is capped by 13 higher grades... each capping the one just below it.

 

The value of TMNT #1 CGC 9.6 is capped by one higher grade.

 

I'm in the minority in my vote... but let's face it...

there's a very good chance I win this... soon.

 

I just traded a $5,200 investment... which has almost doubled... for a book that is valued about half of what it should be.

 

Bargain.

 

If not... I still have my other AF #15.

 

I can't lose.

 

 

This is a well-reasoned argument and well thought-out post. I can easily see why you made the trade you did, and kudos for that. .

 

I agree. If I had two AF15's, I may have done the deal as well. But we didn't have any of these details when the question was asked.

 

Turtles #1 is a great book in it's own right. And it's firmly cemented in the hobby (ie NOT a fad). I still need to get a first copy.

[JesterSB]

I happen to own both these books, in grades that puts them at about equal market value. I can tell you personally my Turtles 1 is one of only 2 untouchables in my collection (barring upgrade), while I could foresee myself selling the AF15 some day. I think the 9.6 Turtles 1 will be worth more than the 4.0 AF15 in 10 years, but maybe not in 50 years. There are just so few of that book available, especially at that grade or higher. I can always buy an AF15 if I had the cash, but there have been times in the recent past where finding a 9.6 Turtles 1 hasn't been possible. Basically, most folks who were 10 years old in the 60s and 70s are going to take the AF15 every time, and kids from the 80s and 90s are going to take the Turtles. We won't know what the milennial kids will do until they have the money to do it, but my money would be on the Turtles long term (though AF15 is certainly a safe investment).

[JesterSB]

There are currently 112 votes for CGC 4.0 Amazing Fantasy #15.

There are currently 40 votes for CGC 9.6 TMNT #1.

 

Assuming those 112 who voted for the CGC 4.0 Amazing Fantasy #15 would also be happy with any higher grade... there are 581 copies available. That's over 5 copies per voter.

If everyone had the money, everyone could have the book.

 

Assuming those 40 who voted for the CGC 9.6 TMNT #1 would also be happy with any higher grade... there are 38 copies available.

There aren't enough for 1 each.

No amount of money satisfies all 40 people with 38 books.

Also, this.

[Ryan.]

How many decades must something be on the cultural radar before it's no longer considered a fad? I'd think 3 would be more than enough.

[marvelcollector]

I traded my CGC 4.0 AF15 for CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

If you have checked my recent posts, you'll know that Spiderman-on-Tilt was the other party involved.

 

He now has the CGC 4.0 AF15. IT IS NOT FOR SALE.

For those of you attempting to obtain the book from him... kindly stop it.

His name is Spiderman-on-Tilt, and I promise you, he doesn't want to sell his AF15.

(He told me he's getting offers due to my post, and he wished I hadn't posted this topic and poll, so I'm partially responsible for annoying him and I'm trying to fix it.)

 

I had two copies of AF15. The other is a CGC 2.0, but it was the first I ever bought, so I'm happy to keep it.

 

Now, I also have CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

Why would I do this trade, which is so obviously lopsided against me?

 

Well, first reason, because I had two copies of AF15 and none of TMNT 1.

 

Second reason, because I bought the CGC 4.0 AF15 in 2009 for a normal 2009 GPA price of $5,200.

 

In 2009, there was not a single sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

None in 2008.

The last CGC 9.6 sale in 2007 was for $9,668.

 

What I could afford for AF15 for $5,200 in 2009 was barely half of a CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

Now I have the whole thing.

 

Next point...

 

A CGC 6.0 of TMNT 1 recently sold for $1,950.

 

Name another key issue that sells for $1,950 in CGC 6.0 which can be purchased in CGC 9.6 for under $10,000.

 

Go ahead.

 

Try.

 

Avengers 4 CGC 6.0 sells for $1,000... the 9.6 costs $20,000. 20 times higher.

Batman 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $300... the 9.6 costs $4,200. 14 times higher.

Batman 227 CGC 6.0 sells for $160... the 9.6 costs $2,000. 12 times higher.

Fantastic Four 48 CGC 6.0 sells for $370... the 9.6 costs $3,700... 10 times higher.

Hulk 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $700... the 9.6 costs $4,000. 6 times higher... and there are 217 of them, with 75 copies higher than 9.6.

 

Amazing Fantasy CGC 6.0 sells for $18,000... the 9.6 costs a million dollars... 55 times higher.

That's a special case, of course, but the CGC 9.0 AF15 costs $190,000... that's 10 times the 6.0.

 

Let's face it... key books in 9.6 cost at least 10 times more than their 6.0 values... unless there are PLENTY available (Hulk 181).

Even with Hulk 181, you're talking about 6 times the 6.0 value.

 

TMNT CGC 6.0 sells for $1,950... the 9.6 costs under $8,000. 4 times higher.

At 6 times higher, it's a $12,000 book.

At 10 times higher, it's a $20,000 book.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND...

 

What determines the price of CGC 4.0 AF #15? Well, the 4.5... minus a little.

What determines the price of CGC 4.5 AF #15? The 5.0... minus a little.

5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, etc., etc.,

 

The value of Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 4.0 is capped by 13 higher grades... each capping the one just below it.

 

The value of TMNT #1 CGC 9.6 is capped by one higher grade.

 

I'm in the minority in my vote... but let's face it...

there's a very good chance I win this... soon.

 

I just traded a $5,200 investment... which has almost doubled... for a book that is valued about half of what it should be.

 

Bargain.

 

If not... I still have my other AF #15.

 

I can't lose.

 

 

This is a well-reasoned argument and well thought-out post. I can easily see why you made the trade you did, and kudos for that. But if SOT is annoyed with you for starting this thread and poll, and you're trying to fix that (to loosely quote you from up top) I'm sort of failing to see that in your post here. Maybe it is me.

 

Very well reasoned and sound

 

No doubt you did the right thing for your collection. You're happy and that's all that counts (thumbs u

 

That said, I can't see the turtles ever coming even close in popularity to Spider-Man, movie or not. (Wasn't there already a movie, btw )

 

Given the grade differential in this case, the two books will likely stay in the general neighborhood of each other.

Edited February 28, 2014 by marvelcollector

[comicwiz]

I traded my CGC 4.0 AF15 for CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

If you have checked my recent posts, you'll know that Spiderman-on-Tilt was the other party involved.

 

He now has the CGC 4.0 AF15. IT IS NOT FOR SALE.

For those of you attempting to obtain the book from him... kindly stop it.

His name is Spiderman-on-Tilt, and I promise you, he doesn't want to sell his AF15.

(He told me he's getting offers due to my post, and he wished I hadn't posted this topic and poll, so I'm partially responsible for annoying him and I'm trying to fix it.)

 

I had two copies of AF15. The other is a CGC 2.0, but it was the first I ever bought, so I'm happy to keep it.

 

Now, I also have CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

Why would I do this trade, which is so obviously lopsided against me?

 

Well, first reason, because I had two copies of AF15 and none of TMNT 1.

 

Second reason, because I bought the CGC 4.0 AF15 in 2009 for a normal 2009 GPA price of $5,200.

 

In 2009, there was not a single sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

None in 2008.

The last CGC 9.6 sale in 2007 was for $9,668.

 

What I could afford for AF15 for $5,200 in 2009 was barely half of a CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

Now I have the whole thing.

 

Next point...

 

A CGC 6.0 of TMNT 1 recently sold for $1,950.

 

Name another key issue that sells for $1,950 in CGC 6.0 which can be purchased in CGC 9.6 for under $10,000.

 

Go ahead.

 

Try.

 

Avengers 4 CGC 6.0 sells for $1,000... the 9.6 costs $20,000. 20 times higher.

Batman 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $300... the 9.6 costs $4,200. 14 times higher.

Batman 227 CGC 6.0 sells for $160... the 9.6 costs $2,000. 12 times higher.

Fantastic Four 48 CGC 6.0 sells for $370... the 9.6 costs $3,700... 10 times higher.

Hulk 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $700... the 9.6 costs $4,000. 6 times higher... and there are 217 of them, with 75 copies higher than 9.6.

 

Amazing Fantasy CGC 6.0 sells for $18,000... the 9.6 costs a million dollars... 55 times higher.

That's a special case, of course, but the CGC 9.0 AF15 costs $190,000... that's 10 times the 6.0.

 

Let's face it... key books in 9.6 cost at least 10 times more than their 6.0 values... unless there are PLENTY available (Hulk 181).

Even with Hulk 181, you're talking about 6 times the 6.0 value.

 

TMNT CGC 6.0 sells for $1,950... the 9.6 costs under $8,000. 4 times higher.

At 6 times higher, it's a $12,000 book.

At 10 times higher, it's a $20,000 book.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND...

 

What determines the price of CGC 4.0 AF #15? Well, the 4.5... minus a little.

What determines the price of CGC 4.5 AF #15? The 5.0... minus a little.

5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, etc., etc.,

 

The value of Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 4.0 is capped by 13 higher grades... each capping the one just below it.

 

The value of TMNT #1 CGC 9.6 is capped by one higher grade.

 

I'm in the minority in my vote... but let's face it...

there's a very good chance I win this... soon.

 

I just traded a $5,200 investment... which has almost doubled... for a book that is valued about half of what it should be.

 

Bargain.

 

If not... I still have my other AF #15.

 

I can't lose.

 

 

This is a well-reasoned argument and well thought-out post. I can easily see why you made the trade you did, and kudos for that. But if SOT is annoyed with you for starting this thread and poll, and you're trying to fix that (to loosely quote you from up top) I'm sort of failing to see that in your post here. Maybe it is me.

 

[CBT]

Interesting debate, some of the logic is predicated that keys are relative to each other. Not all keys are equal, so its tough to necessarily correlate their price ratios.

 

I think one way to look at it is to compare it to financial investments. AF is like a precious metal, it may not see as big a rise has TMNT has the potential to do, but it also is far less likely to see a precipitous drop.

 

AF is an inflation/deflation hedge, where TMNT has more upside potential, and more down. If the whole market were to take a dive, AF would be the better one to hold. But, in the the short to medium term, with the movie coming out as well, he makes a good case for its upside as well.

[Wayne-Tec]

I happen to own both these books, in grades that puts them at about equal market value. I can tell you personally my Turtles 1 is one of only 2 untouchables in my collection (barring upgrade), while I could foresee myself selling the AF15 some day. I think the 9.6 Turtles 1 will be worth more than the 4.0 AF15 in 10 years, but maybe not in 50 years. There are just so few of that book available, especially at that grade or higher. I can always buy an AF15 if I had the cash, but there have been times in the recent past where finding a 9.6 Turtles 1 hasn't been possible. Basically, most folks who were 10 years old in the 60s and 70s are going to take the AF15 every time, and kids from the 80s and 90s are going to take the Turtles. We won't know what the milennial kids will do until they have the money to do it, but my money would be on the Turtles long term (though AF15 is certainly a safe investment).

 

I was 10 years old in the 1990's and there's no question which book I'd enjoy more...

 

AF #15 eights days a week.

[Jaydogrules]

I traded my CGC 4.0 AF15 for CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

If you have checked my recent posts, you'll know that Spiderman-on-Tilt was the other party involved.

 

He now has the CGC 4.0 AF15. IT IS NOT FOR SALE.

For those of you attempting to obtain the book from him... kindly stop it.

His name is Spiderman-on-Tilt, and I promise you, he doesn't want to sell his AF15.

(He told me he's getting offers due to my post, and he wished I hadn't posted this topic and poll, so I'm partially responsible for annoying him and I'm trying to fix it.)

 

I had two copies of AF15. The other is a CGC 2.0, but it was the first I ever bought, so I'm happy to keep it.

 

Now, I also have CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

 

Why would I do this trade, which is so obviously lopsided against me?

 

Well, first reason, because I had two copies of AF15 and none of TMNT 1.

 

Second reason, because I bought the CGC 4.0 AF15 in 2009 for a normal 2009 GPA price of $5,200.

 

In 2009, there was not a single sale of CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

None in 2008.

The last CGC 9.6 sale in 2007 was for $9,668.

 

What I could afford for AF15 for $5,200 in 2009 was barely half of a CGC 9.6 TMNT 1.

Now I have the whole thing.

 

Next point...

 

A CGC 6.0 of TMNT 1 recently sold for $1,950.

 

Name another key issue that sells for $1,950 in CGC 6.0 which can be purchased in CGC 9.6 for under $10,000.

 

Go ahead.

 

Try.

 

Avengers 4 CGC 6.0 sells for $1,000... the 9.6 costs $20,000. 20 times higher.

Batman 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $300... the 9.6 costs $4,200. 14 times higher.

Batman 227 CGC 6.0 sells for $160... the 9.6 costs $2,000. 12 times higher.

Fantastic Four 48 CGC 6.0 sells for $370... the 9.6 costs $3,700... 10 times higher.

Hulk 181 CGC 6.0 sells for $700... the 9.6 costs $4,000. 6 times higher... and there are 217 of them, with 75 copies higher than 9.6.

 

Amazing Fantasy CGC 6.0 sells for $18,000... the 9.6 costs a million dollars... 55 times higher.

That's a special case, of course, but the CGC 9.0 AF15 costs $190,000... that's 10 times the 6.0.

 

Let's face it... key books in 9.6 cost at least 10 times more than their 6.0 values... unless there are PLENTY available (Hulk 181).

Even with Hulk 181, you're talking about 6 times the 6.0 value.

 

TMNT CGC 6.0 sells for $1,950... the 9.6 costs under $8,000. 4 times higher.

At 6 times higher, it's a $12,000 book.

At 10 times higher, it's a $20,000 book.

 

ON THE OTHER HAND...

 

What determines the price of CGC 4.0 AF #15? Well, the 4.5... minus a little.

What determines the price of CGC 4.5 AF #15? The 5.0... minus a little.

5.5, 6.0, 6.5, 7.0, etc., etc.,

 

The value of Amazing Fantasy #15 CGC 4.0 is capped by 13 higher grades... each capping the one just below it.

 

The value of TMNT #1 CGC 9.6 is capped by one higher grade.

 

I'm in the minority in my vote... but let's face it...

there's a very good chance I win this... soon.

 

I just traded a $5,200 investment... which has almost doubled... for a book that is valued about half of what it should be.

 

Bargain.

 

If not... I still have my other AF #15.

 

I can't lose.

 

 

This is a well-reasoned argument and well thought-out post. I can easily see why you made the trade you did, and kudos for that. But if SOT is annoyed with you for starting this thread and poll, and you're trying to fix that (to loosely quote you from up top) I'm sort of failing to see that in your post here. Maybe it is me.

 

Very well reasoned and sound

 

No doubt you did the right thing for your collection. You're happy and that's all that counts (thumbs u

 

That said, I can't see the turtles ever coming even close in popularity to Spider-Man, movie or not. (Wasn't there already a movie, btw )

 

Given the grade differential in this case, the two books will likely stay in the general neighborhood of each other.

 

 

I don't know about that. AF 15s in the lower grades are the ones going up in value the most right now as most copies in a 5 and up have simply become too expensive. Even the copy he traded has doubled in the last few years. The prices of TMNT 1 were mostly flat until this latest movie news stoked a little speculator interest. If it turns out to be a stinker, there goes that. And there may be fewer TMNT 1's out there, but there are also far fewer people who want one or demand one in their collection. I grew up in the 80s and remember the first set of movies when they first came out. And when I sold a property and wanted to treat myself to pretty much any book I wanted last year (within reason of course), the first book that came to mind was AF 15. When it was delivered guys wanted to come over just to see one and hold it in their hands. They were literally congratulating me and patting me on the back as if i just had my first kid . There would not have been anywhere near a reaction like that to a TMNT 1, and the reason is obvious. In fact, when I was in the market for a TMNT 1 and told my buddy about it he just chuckled and rolled his eyes. He grew up in the 90s, and even he wondered aloud...."are those things still even worth anything"?

 

Those deep in the hobby obviously know the answer to that. But it's as I said before, movie or not, toys or not, TMNT 1 is still a niche book and it's value as a collectible is not readily apparent to the mainstream. But I could show my AF 15 to almost anyone on the planet and they would almost certainly know what they are looking at, and even though they may not know they actual FMV of it, they will instinctively know that it is something that is valuable.

 

-J.

[miraclemet]

 

The Copper Age is one of the, if not the most reviled age in comics. Yes, I stand by that. And I don't feel too "special" about it, since I know that is the general consensus of the hobby at large as well.

 

-J.

 

I think copper (assuming you use the 1991 end date) is far less reviled than the 90s... Just look online at the retrospectives... the 90s are held up as largely ridiculous times...Rob Liefeld, foil stamped, multi-variant, hologram covers, birdcage fodder (thanks to ridiculous over production) that came out with very little substance behind the splash.

 

The post-copper era included a Marvel bankruptcy, a loss of all of the early Batman momentum in the movies (Batman & Robin anyone?), and almost no meaningful product development into the mainstream. Marvel relaunching the whole line with Heroes Reborn, and it being horrible. The 90s gave us Clone saga, some other guy being Batman, Electric Superman, many horrible events (Zero Hour?), Carnage showing up all over the place... The lone good thing from the post-copper 90s was the development of creator rights thanks to Image Comics and other "creator owned" publishing ventures like Vertigo. That is the good that came out of the 90s.

 

But I'll take the 80s copper every time.

 

There are a few good moments in 90s comics (LoEG was good, Marvels & Kingdom Come were good [though they relied heavily on Golden Age], the birth of Image (as I mentioned) and Vertigo, along with creator owned Hellboy and Sin City), but I'll take Crisis on Infinite Earths, Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Miller's Daredevil, Alan Moore on Swampthing, Byrne's FF, Claremont's 80s X-men (future past, Phoenix..) and on and on... Most reviled? Doubtful.

 

Again, you can cherry pick two dozen decent story lines from the CA, without changing the overall reality of things. You can even thrown in the sandman run while you're at it. But from a VALUE perspective it is the weakest designated age, by far. Very few investment opportunities there, and as cool as some of those stories you mentioned are, none of those books are particularly valuable. And I might add, there's a chorus out there that doesn't think some of those stories you mention have held up very well with time. I'm looking at you watchmen and dark knight returns. But like I said, to each his own.

 

-J.

 

 

and there's the clarifying point.

 

When you say that the Copper age is the "most reviled" of the comic book ages you mean from a "value" and "investment" standpoint. And while I understand the OPs original question included a value component, your statements (up until now) didnt. And "reviled" is more of an emotional/quality type assessment than a monetary one.

 

But now that I know what you mean, ok I'll cede your point. Maybe to investors/dealers the Copper age doesnt represent a lot of big dollar books do the 7 years post-copper era books represent more? That I dont know. But I seriously doubt the the quality of the books from a reading/writing/art perspective are considered "reviled" by the majority of comic fans. Im now going to go do some research on book values; Copper vs Post-Copper.

 

As far as copper "keys" holding up over time... its no differently than Spidey's 60s/70s "issue" type books, the 80s Watchmen and DKR are definitely of and about the era they occurred in (Regan era cold-war/Iron Lady UK era), so sure they aren't going to hold up if you try and read them as fully modern, they are 20 years old and are deeply rooted to the time they were written (since they are "issue oriented" books).

[mackenzie999]

I'm an older guy and the AF15 is 1000x more appealing to me than the Turtles, but then I have zero exposure to them. I'm not talking value here, just desirability as far as I'm concerned.

 

That being said...long-term investment-wise, I think Turtles may have the edge, especially when I am selling off my collection to pay for cat-food dinner. The big money guys will be buying the grails of their youth, and I suspect that will be Turtles over Spidey.

 

Many state that the Big Three are untouchable, safe investments. They are probably right. But I think of other cultural titans, like Tarzan, Buck Rogers, Lone Ranger, etc. Sure there is some value there, but how is the supply/demand side of that holding up? I'm not saying Action 1 will ever tank, but my point is nothing is 100% certain.

 

I am far from an expert, just some food for thought. I'd still take the 15 though.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Mackenzie999

[Sauce Dog]

So many TMNT trades of late. I did a trade that involved my X-Men #1 for a raw low grade TMNT. It isn't about price, as I traded up much more than the TMNT was worth so he got a great deal. It is about finding the right grail to fit the collection, and if someone else gets a grail out of it as well then everyone wins.

 

I think TMNT fans are simply realizing that with more movies coming out there isn't any slowing down, and looking at the prices of other super hero properties (such as Spider-Man) they don't want to find themselves priced out of obtaining a key grail in the future.

[Sauce Dog]

Also, one can rag on the copper age as much as they like but it wasn't any less silly than the golden / silver age, in fact I think it had much better stories overall. Heck, i'll take the copper age over anything from modern 90's most of the time.

 

Regardless, it feels there are many more AF #15s available on the market then the limited TMNT first prints, so it isn't any wonder why people are interested in it (that and I don't like Spider-Man at all so no nostalgia for me - i prefer his villains)

[Illustrious]

Even though the TMNT #1 first print run is low, a lot of people are going to be content with the second of third print since they look 99% identical and are all released within just a few months of each other.