Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[Hulksdaddy1]

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

 

I don't think the buyer did anything but get lucky. Would you send it back Bob? I wouldn't. Buyer isn't flaunting anything.

 

He's actually being very humble about the whole thing. He didn't do anything other than to LMK that I was right when I originally started this thread, in that CGC is NOT as consistent as everyone thinks they are.

 

Well, they were consistent when they graded it blue, twice.

 

 

Consistent = 3 for 3 (thumbs u

 

Hey, 1 for 3 gets you into the HOF!

 

Unless your Pete Rose

 

Poor Petey! Drugs, abuse, murder = fine.

 

Gambling =

[Foolkiller]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

[namisgr]

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake?

 

Bazinga!

[Park]

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake?

 

Bazinga!

 

 

[Spider-Dan]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

[Sqeggs]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

My own -- off the top of my head -- thoughts:

 

1. The new company would almost certainly need to initially charge less (and be geared up to have rapid turnaround) to have a hope of attracting business.

 

2. The new company would likely need a couple of large dealers (on the order of Metro or Sparkle City) on board so that the number of books in the new slabs would quickly become a significant part of the market.

 

3. The new company would have to aim at replicating CGC's grading standards (or being slightly looser). Otherwise the game of cracking their slabs and resubmitting them to CGC with the hope of higher grades would likely overwhelm them.

[Foolkiller]

Here's another wrinkle. Trimming most often is examined by the restoration detection expert. If the book was submitted in the old label was it originally looked at by Borock or Haspel but later examined by friesen but then not examined by him on resub. Or perhaps vice versa. Trimming is such that perhaps there was disagreement the same way there can be on a grade. Unlike color touch or glue or chemical cleaning trimming has more grey and is more difficult to identify. Even Borock admitted this during ewert. The same thing is susceptible at any new company.

 

Since we don't know who examined the book I'd like to think that if CGC asserted they believed it was trimmed it was friesen and Paul who did so the first time. Correctly or incorrectly perhaps different folks looked the second time and reached a different conclusion

[Bills Comics]

Yes it does. Basically, you can time the actual day of grading by using the Walkthru = they grade it the day it's received, or the next day. In this case it is suspicious the submitter gamed the system by submitting it on a day the whole crew was out of town. Very relevant.

This book needs to be sent back to CGC for inspection. Otherwise, how can CGC respond to any of this. I've talked to some people, outside of the Boards, and the one common response is why did the submitter flaunt this?

I'm still in the camp that CGC got played.

Saying CGC got played about this , has to be the dumbest thing I have read on these boards ever .

 

This thread is probably winning as far as the amount of dumb contained in one thread.

 

Bob's post was not even the dumbest thing posted in this thread.

 

Maybe you didn't read this whole thread. It was discussed, with verification from our own Joeypost, that a trimmed edge can be roughed up to hide the trim. To verify something like this did or did not happen, CGC would need to see the book again in hand. If it was tampered with, and deliberately sent in on a low staff day, how is this not being played?

 

I have read every post.

You seem to accept as fact all the supposition about how this book came back through and was unjustly awarded a Blue Label .

Thinking that CGC is the victim in all this. Thats what I was referring to .

Unless this is the plot to Oceans 14.....

Hmm, A heist movie about a comic book.... its so crazy it just might work!!!!

But only if Julia Roberts gets to play Julia Roberts playing Julia Roberts .

 

[conditionfreak]

There are too many people invested in the CGC system and model. It will never go away and never stop being used.

 

Just as PGX is used every day.

 

Think of the "investment" in CGC like this: You buy gold, and stock it away for protection of your financial future. Gold dives down to lower than you paid for it.

 

Do you sell then? No, you do not. You hold and talk up the product, until such time you can at least recoup your initial investment. With your eye on making some sort of a profit. Then you get the hell out of it before it drops again.

 

Those here (and there are several, if not many), that rely on the CGC company for their financial gains full or part time. Will continue to "talk up" and defend the CGC model. Because they make a profit from it, or have too much investment in that particular product. No matter what.

 

CGC will continue to be the bedrock of the hobby. IF you consider the "hobby" to be flipping and investment. If you just like reading comic books, then you probably won't care one wit about CGC or its credibility.

 

I would be interested in how someone like sufunk or Peter in Portugal views this situation. Given the extent of their collection and money poured into CGC graded books. Would they continue on after this? Would they reconsider just obtaining raw books based on their own grading? Would they rethink and reassess their CGC graded book offers? Or will they just continue to carry on with what they have been doing, and consider this an anomaly or one off event?

 

I think the short answer will most likely be, that they will wait and see what happens with this situation. Which makes perfect sense.

[Foolkiller]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

[Hulksdaddy1]

Here's another wrinkle. Trimming most often is examined by the restoration detection expert. If the book was submitted in the old label was it originally looked at by Borock or Haspel but later examined by friesen but then not examined by him on resub. Or perhaps vice versa. Trimming is such that perhaps there was disagreement the same way there can be on a grade. Unlike color touch or glue or chemical cleaning trimming has more grey and is more difficult to identify. Even Borock admitted this during ewert. The same thing is susceptible at any new company.

 

Since we don't know who examined the book I'd like to think that if CGC asserted they believed it was trimmed it was friesen and Paul who did so the first time. Correctly or incorrectly perhaps different folks looked the second time and reached a different conclusion

 

If trimming cannot be verified beyond a shadow of a doubt, then it should be discarded. CGC has got to take the innocent until proven guilty model of this. Otherwise, we have this thread.

[Foolkiller]

Here's another wrinkle. Trimming most often is examined by the restoration detection expert. If the book was submitted in the old label was it originally looked at by Borock or Haspel but later examined by friesen but then not examined by him on resub. Or perhaps vice versa. Trimming is such that perhaps there was disagreement the same way there can be on a grade. Unlike color touch or glue or chemical cleaning trimming has more grey and is more difficult to identify. Even Borock admitted this during ewert. The same thing is susceptible at any new company.

 

Since we don't know who examined the book I'd like to think that if CGC asserted they believed it was trimmed it was friesen and Paul who did so the first time. Correctly or incorrectly perhaps different folks looked the second time and reached a different conclusion

 

If trimming cannot be verified beyond a shadow of a doubt, then it should be discarded. CGC has got to take the innocent until proven guilty model of this. Otherwise, we have this thread.

 

I think they typically do but you have to remember the historical back drop of ewert and the outcry. I'm not sure that in every case you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's precisely what ewert successfully exploited.

[Spider-Dan]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

[N/A]

They are.

[skypinkblu]

If the "trusted" person is a familiar one, then I believe you will get a lot of yes answers.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

[Bills Comics]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

How do people keep turning this into " Trimming gets a pass " from

IF IT CANT BE 100% DETECTED.

 

[conditionfreak]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

 

As I stated previously. If they are certain, then give it a "trimmed" label. But if they ain't sure. Then it gets blue. A reputable business model, IMO. If your doctor believes you are diabetic and need insulin, but is not sure. He better not tell you to start taking insulin.

 

He has to be certain you are diabetic before he prescribes insulin shots. Or he is in big trouble.

[gyro-1]

I don't find it a good thing when people pop in with just a few posts and make it sound like they are some one else who knows stuff

Fellows post who you are or go away

Please

 

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

 

Isn't that CGC's rule concerning pressing?