Ive lost ALL confidence in CGC - UPDATE on page 221 2 2

[Bills Comics]

How about if it isnt 100 % detected but is "Suspected" that gets a notation on the Blue label ?

Is this fair enough ? Or is this still too much supposition ?

[Hulksdaddy1]

How about if it isnt 100 % detected but is "Suspected" that gets a notation on the Blue label ?

Is this fair enough ? Or is this still too much supposition ?

 

Suspected would be as good as guilty.

[kav]

Totally unrelated aside, isn't it weird when you discover, out of the blue, that someone has you on ignore that you never had any interaction with, ever...?

 

Not Park. He could never ignore me.

 

 

There is a drawing each month to see who has to take you off ignore. I have lost the last 27 months in a row. I am beginning think something may be amiss.

The real losers are the ones that use the ignore function in the first place.

 

 

I might disagree with that, in certain cases.

[Red84]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

They did, and then an obvious competitor in BGS started up. Obvious because they were behind the price guide Beckett. Overstreet would be the logical company to start a competitor. PSA is still number 1, but BGS is 1a. Then you have a few other companies that no one takes seriously.

 

I collected cards as a kid. Only recently got into comics. I watched as PSA started up, the Gem Mints 10s went nuts, and then the bubble burst. Vince Carter PSA 10 SP Authentic rookie cards were selling for over $3k; more than an 8.0 Jordan Fleer RC.

[Jiminy_Cricket-migration]

How about if it isnt 100 % detected but is "Suspected" that gets a notation on the Blue label ?

Is this fair enough ? Or is this still too much supposition ?

 

Suspected would be as good as guilty.

 

+ 1 An employer would never hire someone "suspected" of bank robbery, or any other serious crime. It has a stigma.

[MatterEaterLad]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders? No.

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily? Maybe

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service? No

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder? No

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company? No

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company? No

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

My No's are because I'm gunshy of slabbing at the moment, no matter who's looking at the books.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

 

Isn't that CGC's rule concerning pressing?

 

Yes

[Spider-Dan]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

They did, and then an obvious competitor in BGS started up. Obvious because they were behind the price guide Beckett. Overstreet would be the logical company to start a competitor. PSA is still number 1, but BGS is 1a. Then you have a few other companies that no one takes seriously.

 

Overstreet would be the perfect candidate, as most people use them for thier grading standards anyway

[Bills Comics]

How about if it isnt 100 % detected but is "Suspected" that gets a notation on the Blue label ?

Is this fair enough ? Or is this still too much supposition ?

 

Suspected would be as good as guilty.

 

To some, but not to everyone. Then the Market can price it accordingly .

[kav]

If something is so minuscule as to be undetectable or similar to something that occurs naturally then it doesn't exist.

If they could make synthetic diamonds that looked exactly like real diamonds then they would be real diamonds.

If trimming is so well done that it is undetectable then it really isn't adversely altering the book like tape, CT etc and shouldn't be considered 'bad'.

Or something.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

Since CGC has the power (and I agree WE gave them that power) to turn a $5000 book into a $2000 book, they should be 100% certain, or go with a Blue Label

 

So inevitably......trimming gets a pass because CGC can't detect it with absolute certainty.

 

Slippery slope indeed

How do people keep turning this into " Trimming gets a pass " from

IF IT CANT BE 100% DETECTED.

 

It's called logic.

[THE_BEYONDER]

If something is so minuscule as to be undetectable or similar to something that occurs naturally then it doesn't exist.

If they could make synthetic diamonds that looked exactly like real diamonds then they would be real diamonds.

If trimming is so well done that it is undetectable then it really isn't adversely altering the book like tape, CT etc and shouldn't be considered 'bad'.

Or something.

 

Or something

[Park]

Man Stu got blitzed in a hurry.

 

Hi Stu.

[Hulksdaddy1]

To some, but not to everyone. Then the Market can price it accordingly .

 

To the vast majority. Think about it. You see 2 different Hulk 181 9.2. One says"may be trimmed." The other doesn't. Which one would you want, and pay more for?

 

Think Dan Marino in the 1983 NFL Draft.

[Hulksdaddy1]

If something is so minuscule as to be undetectable or similar to something that occurs naturally then it doesn't exist.

If they could make synthetic diamonds that looked exactly like real diamonds then they would be real diamonds.

If trimming is so well done that it is undetectable then it really isn't adversely altering the book like tape, CT etc and shouldn't be considered 'bad'.

Or something.

 

"A difference that makes no difference is no difference."

[THE_BEYONDER]

To some, but not to everyone. Then the Market can price it accordingly .

 

To the vast majority. Think about it. You see 2 different Hulk 181 9.2. One says"may be trimmed." The other doesn't. Which one would you want, and pay more for?

 

Think Dan Marino in the 1983 NFL Draft.

 

What next?

 

TMNT books that say "might be fake" on the label.

[porky]

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

What if your books will sell for less in a new company's holder?

 

What if the transparency were no greater at the new company?

 

Would people be willing to sell their books for less short term to help support the credibility of the new company?

 

Curious to hear people's responses

 

Didn't PSA have a monopoly on card grading at one time

 

Dan

 

Doesn't your model work on straight resub no pressing? In other words a CGC mistake? If a new grading pops up they are going to be likely tighter and more consistent. Meaning you'll have to submit to CGC and crack the other company's to make money. Or you'll need to wait a couple years til the new grading company either has cycles of grading or enough on the market you can find the mistakes.

 

How does a competitor help your model? Or would you adjust to a new model altogether with a new company?

 

My "model" is to seek out books that look undergraded in hopes of an upgrade. A bit of a gamble I know, but Im willing to take that gamble. Many people on these Boards including you have benefitted from this.

 

I know that the number in the corner is only an OPINION. Whether a book is trimmed, color touched, pieces added, that should be a FACT.

 

This thread was started about going from Blue to Purple (and now back to Blue), not about a book being graded tight or not. If a new co could detect resto better, it would benefit ALL of us!

 

See my last post on the issue of trimming. If you've ever seen a micro trimmed book in hand I think you'd agree that without before and after scans it's nearly impossible to tell with certainty. You're getting the same opinion on trimming you are on a grade. There's a detection difference between this and the other things you mentioned. Trimming is an opinion the same kind of opinion you seek to exploit. And I don't say that negatively because I do the same thing. I'm simply pointing out that the detection of trimming isn't a fact in the same sense the other things you mentioned.

 

but they were apparently certain with every set of eyes in the place when they made it purple. yet it goes back again and it doesn't set off any alarms?

[conditionfreak]

Man Stu got blitzed in a hurry.

 

Hi Stu.

 

Yep. This thread got "trimmed". In this case, it was a very good trimming.

[maloney414]

Hey Brian,

 

You know I'm a buyer and rarely sell anything, so I'll answer the questions related to buying. (thumbs u

 

I have a serious question for everyone.

 

Suppose a legitimate competitor pops up tomorrow. Someone the hobby believes in with real backing.

 

The key words are "someone the hobby believes in." Trust is a big deal if I'm paying someone to help me evaluate a book. Trust they will be honest with me and trust in their ability to correctly evaluate it. Especially a restoration check.

 

Think about it. YOU have earned a ton of trust from fellow boardies. When you have a sales thread, buyers are hitting F5 constantly like a feeding frenzy to buy your stuff. Often hitting the "I'll take it" within seconds. Why? Because they know you are fair with price, and accurately grade your comics. If it's a book they want, they know they can quickly go for it.

 

 

Will those here pay more for books in those holders?

 

Again, if I trusted the new companies graders the answer is yes. Furthermore, I'd pay more right now buying a raw book from a trusted seller, than a seller I've never dealt with before. You and I have talked about that before. Great sellers check for resto, and if by chance they miss something and it comes back PLOD they will give you a refund. Buyers remember stuff like that, and always revisit those dealers at cons and their online websites. There is an added value to peace of mind, especially on more expensive comics.

 

Will you frequent the sites that carry them primarily?

 

Yes.

 

Will you immediately send your books in for grading at the new service?

 

If I bought an expensive book and wanted a restoration check grading service, sure I would use the new service if I trusted them.

 

[kav]

If something is so minuscule as to be undetectable or similar to something that occurs naturally then it doesn't exist.

If they could make synthetic diamonds that looked exactly like real diamonds then they would be real diamonds.

If trimming is so well done that it is undetectable then it really isn't adversely altering the book like tape, CT etc and shouldn't be considered 'bad'.

Or something.

 

"A difference that makes no difference is no difference."

That's what I was trying to say.