Comic Book Spine Realignment Therapy, turn your 8.5's into 9.2's!

[nearmint]

Restoring a book in any way may as well be mutilating it to some people. To some it is not .

Pressing a book properly may be mutilating a book to some, while to others it's completely benign.

I would imagine what's going on with these books is heavily frowned upon form bothe pro and anti-pressers . Probably much the same way folding the book in half would be.

 

Hopefully the anti-pressing crowd does not see this as an "I told you so" to the pro pressing crowd and draw out the same old arguments, which will not change a thing. But, I'm already seeing signs of that, unfortunately.

 

It will be much better to recognize the fact that bad press jobs should be down graded and CGC should be more consistent with grading period. Had this book been graded more accurately with those factors in mind, it would have never received an upgrade and there would be no incintive to mutilate the books in this way.

 

 

 

What needs to happen is for any and all forms of pressing be detected and noted.

I personally see very little difference between the pressing of a book to realign the spine so it presents "better" or pressing to remove ripples crinkles or non color breaking creases so it "presents" better. Both versions are "realizing the full potential" of the book.

 

Huge difference. One is an attempt to return the make the book appear more like it was when it was new. The other is an attempt to move defects to a less noticeable spot in the hopes of a better grade with the added bonus of making the comic look fugly/ less like its original state.

 

all forms of pressing are to make defects less noticeable: therefore changing the book from one state to another. My arguement is if it is done it is done and should be noted/ detected/ disclosed.

 

Again, bad press jobs are detectable, good ones are not. So how would you like them to be noted/detected/disclosed?

 

Well, therein lies the problem. There are those who will disclose, there are those that won't. There has to be a way of detecting. It is heat pressed, maybe is a method of detecting that and then it can be noted on CGC labels "pressed".

 

I don't agree that there has to be a way of detecting. I've seen no evidence of that.

[Bosco685]

Make your call how far your values go in judging right vs. wrong when collecting and selling in our hobby. But I wouldn't want any of the books he now altered.

 

My values have nothing to do with it, dont make this about me. I wouldnt buy one of his books either, hell as far as my personal SA collection i wont even touch a 1/16 of an inch miswrap let alone one of his fugly books.

 

 

Who made this about you? Come on now. I'm not attacking you, and I am not assuming you are attacking me. We are talking about perceptions and limits when it comes to comic book handling and sales techniques.

 

 

Dirty presser.

 

[Boba]

I have a question, probably won't get an answer here but I'll try.

 

The Avengers #1 was bought by CC and I assume they had the pressing done. So they are into the book for $13k+. If this is so, why is everyone saying CGC would have to buy the book and make them whole, and especially why at the valuation of a 9.2?

 

Did the book sell, did anyone pay the $66k+ for the franken-book? If not, then the only recompense that CGC should be required to pay here should be for the cost of the submission that resulted in the incorrect grade and then they should void the certification.

 

If the book didn't sell to anyone, then it's really only "worth" what it sold for as a 8.5 no?

 

[Artboy99]

Restoring a book in any way may as well be mutilating it to some people. To some it is not .

Pressing a book properly may be mutilating a book to some, while to others it's completely benign.

I would imagine what's going on with these books is heavily frowned upon form bothe pro and anti-pressers . Probably much the same way folding the book in half would be.

 

Hopefully the anti-pressing crowd does not see this as an "I told you so" to the pro pressing crowd and draw out the same old arguments, which will not change a thing. But, I'm already seeing signs of that, unfortunately.

 

It will be much better to recognize the fact that bad press jobs should be down graded and CGC should be more consistent with grading period. Had this book been graded more accurately with those factors in mind, it would have never received an upgrade and there would be no incintive to mutilate the books in this way.

 

 

 

What needs to happen is for any and all forms of pressing be detected and noted.

I personally see very little difference between the pressing of a book to realign the spine so it presents "better" or pressing to remove ripples crinkles or non color breaking creases so it "presents" better. Both versions are "realizing the full potential" of the book.

 

Huge difference. One is an attempt to return the make the book appear more like it was when it was new. The other is an attempt to move defects to a less noticeable spot in the hopes of a better grade with the added bonus of making the comic look fugly/ less like its original state.

 

all forms of pressing are to make defects less noticeable: therefore changing the book from one state to another. My arguement is if it is done it is done and should be noted/ detected/ disclosed.

 

Again, bad press jobs are detectable, good ones are not. So how would you like them to be noted/detected/disclosed?

 

Well, therein lies the problem. There are those who will disclose, there are those that won't. There has to be a way of detecting. It is heat pressed, maybe is a method of detecting that and then it can be noted on CGC labels "pressed".

 

I don't agree that there has to be a way of detecting. I've seen no evidence of that.

 

excuse the wording. I am wondering if a process exists to determine if heat has been used on paper and could that process be used to detect pressing?

[All Be D'Oh!]

A poster pointed out my Matt Wilson post.

 

I was wrong in stating that the book I was shown had work done by Matt Wilson. Steve told me last night that the work on the book dealers were shown to determine what restoration was done was worked on by Mark Wilson. He stated that Mark no longer does work for anyone else. Again, the work done on the book I was shown was very very good.

 

While Mark has posted in this thread he hasn't answered the question of whether or not he has any personal/business relationship with this particular seller.

 

 

From what I can find on eBay, the search function and the Google:

 

Mark Wilson (eBay: dizneyart, pgcmint.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- is a board member (PGCMint) and stated that he has no involvement

 

Matt Wilson (fantasymasterpieces.com)

- restorer

- Mark's brother

 

Thomas Wilson (eBay: collectors_comics)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- relationship?

 

Jesse Wilson (eBay: wxproduction, wxproduction.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- Mark's or Matt's son

- likes to use tape: LINK1, LINK2

- currently has this book listed on eBay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-1-CGC-7-0-STUNNING-Hulk-Iron-Man-Thor-Marvel-1963-KEY-/190809428113

 

 

[etanick]

Cert numbers pulled from current on ebay.

 

Notice the 10569XXXXX series.

 

25 books my azz.

 

serial number range and total for that invoice number

 

 

1056932001 1056932005 5

1056940001 1056940007 7

1056943001 1056943011 11

1056945001 1056945005 5

1056946001 1056946012 12

1056947001 1056947012 12

1056954001 1056954011 11

1056956001 1056956011 11

1056963001 1056963015 15

1056967001 1056967007 7

1056969001 1056969009 9

1056970001 1056970014 14

1056971001 1056971015 15

1056972001 1056972006 6

1056973001 1056973015 15

1134925001 1134925012 12

1134926001 1134926012 12

 

total 179

 

i would like to know how CGC arrived at the "only 25" figure

[BeachBum]

A poster pointed out my Matt Wilson post.

 

I was wrong in stating that the book I was shown had work done by Matt Wilson. Steve told me last night that the work on the book dealers were shown to determine what restoration was done was worked on by Mark Wilson. He stated that Mark no longer does work for anyone else. Again, the work done on the book I was shown was very very good.

 

While Mark has posted in this thread he hasn't answered the question of whether or not he has any personal/business relationship with this particular seller.

 

 

From what I can find on eBay, the search function and the Google:

 

Mark Wilson (eBay: dizneyart, pgcmint.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- is a board member (PGCMint) and stated that he has no involvement

 

Matt Wilson (fantasymasterpieces.com)

- restorer

- Mark's brother

 

Thomas Wilson (eBay: collectors_comics)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- relationship?

 

Jesse Wilson (eBay: wxproduction, wxproduction.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- Mark's or Matt's son

- likes to use tape: LINK1, LINK2

- currently has this book listed on eBay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-1-CGC-7-0-STUNNING-Hulk-Iron-Man-Thor-Marvel-1963-KEY-/190809428113

 

 

 

 

That book is two invoices off of one on Timmay's list:

 

1056961

 

Conicidence?

 

Cert numbers pulled from current on ebay.

 

Notice the 10569XXXXX series.

 

25 books my azz.

 

serial number range and total for that invoice number

 

 

1056932001 1056932005 5

1056940001 1056940007 7

1056943001 1056943011 11

1056945001 1056945005 5

1056946001 1056946012 12

1056947001 1056947012 12

1056954001 1056954011 11

1056956001 1056956011 11

1056963001 1056963015 15

1056967001 1056967007 7

1056969001 1056969009 9

1056970001 1056970014 14

1056971001 1056971015 15

1056972001 1056972006 6

1056973001 1056973015 15

1134925001 1134925012 12

1134926001 1134926012 12

 

total 179

[etanick]

A poster pointed out my Matt Wilson post.

 

I was wrong in stating that the book I was shown had work done by Matt Wilson. Steve told me last night that the work on the book dealers were shown to determine what restoration was done was worked on by Mark Wilson. He stated that Mark no longer does work for anyone else. Again, the work done on the book I was shown was very very good.

 

While Mark has posted in this thread he hasn't answered the question of whether or not he has any personal/business relationship with this particular seller.

 

 

From what I can find on eBay, the search function and the Google:

 

Mark Wilson (eBay: dizneyart, pgcmint.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- is a board member (PGCMint) and stated that he has no involvement

 

Matt Wilson (fantasymasterpieces.com)

- restorer

- Mark's brother

 

Thomas Wilson (eBay: collectors_comics)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- relationship?

 

Jesse Wilson (eBay: wxproduction, wxproduction.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- Mark's or Matt's son

- likes to use tape: LINK1, LINK2

- currently has this book listed on eBay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-1-CGC-7-0-STUNNING-Hulk-Iron-Man-Thor-Marvel-1963-KEY-/190809428113

 

 

 

what a coincidence, they all live in Washington

[comicwiz]

A poster pointed out my Matt Wilson post.

 

I was wrong in stating that the book I was shown had work done by Matt Wilson. Steve told me last night that the work on the book dealers were shown to determine what restoration was done was worked on by Mark Wilson. He stated that Mark no longer does work for anyone else. Again, the work done on the book I was shown was very very good.

 

While Mark has posted in this thread he hasn't answered the question of whether or not he has any personal/business relationship with this particular seller.

 

 

From what I can find on eBay, the search function and the Google:

 

Mark Wilson (eBay: dizneyart, pgcmint.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- is a board member (PGCMint) and stated that he has no involvement

 

Matt Wilson (fantasymasterpieces.com)

- restorer

- Mark's brother

 

Thomas Wilson (eBay: collectors_comics)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- relationship?

 

Jesse Wilson (eBay: wxproduction, wxproduction.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- Mark's or Matt's son

- likes to use tape: LINK1, LINK2

- currently has this book listed on eBay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-1-CGC-7-0-STUNNING-Hulk-Iron-Man-Thor-Marvel-1963-KEY-/190809428113

 

 

 

The plot thickens sickens

[ComicConnoisseur]

Check this one out.

 

Interesting as well is that the seller proclaimed in big letters that the comic was "unrestored". And he was being very bluntly honest about that point. It had not been restored. It had been deliberately mutilated.

 

But someone will say grading is subjective to opinion!

[Bosco685]

It's a Wilson conspiracy. Hunt down the Wilsons!

 

[nearmint]

A poster pointed out my Matt Wilson post.

 

I was wrong in stating that the book I was shown had work done by Matt Wilson. Steve told me last night that the work on the book dealers were shown to determine what restoration was done was worked on by Mark Wilson. He stated that Mark no longer does work for anyone else. Again, the work done on the book I was shown was very very good.

 

While Mark has posted in this thread he hasn't answered the question of whether or not he has any personal/business relationship with this particular seller.

 

 

From what I can find on eBay, the search function and the Google:

 

Mark Wilson (eBay: dizneyart, pgcmint.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- is a board member (PGCMint) and stated that he has no involvement

 

Matt Wilson (fantasymasterpieces.com)

- restorer

- Mark's brother

 

Thomas Wilson (eBay: collectors_comics)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- relationship?

 

Jesse Wilson (eBay: wxproduction, wxproduction.com)

- dealer and restorer(?)

- Mark's or Matt's son

- likes to use tape: LINK1, LINK2

- currently has this book listed on eBay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avengers-1-CGC-7-0-STUNNING-Hulk-Iron-Man-Thor-Marvel-1963-KEY-/190809428113

 

 

 

what a coincidence, they all live in Washington

 

Are you sure? A board member sold a book to Thomas a few years ago and his mailing address was Oceanside, CA.

[nearmint]

Restoring a book in any way may as well be mutilating it to some people. To some it is not .

Pressing a book properly may be mutilating a book to some, while to others it's completely benign.

I would imagine what's going on with these books is heavily frowned upon form bothe pro and anti-pressers . Probably much the same way folding the book in half would be.

 

Hopefully the anti-pressing crowd does not see this as an "I told you so" to the pro pressing crowd and draw out the same old arguments, which will not change a thing. But, I'm already seeing signs of that, unfortunately.

 

It will be much better to recognize the fact that bad press jobs should be down graded and CGC should be more consistent with grading period. Had this book been graded more accurately with those factors in mind, it would have never received an upgrade and there would be no incintive to mutilate the books in this way.

 

 

 

What needs to happen is for any and all forms of pressing be detected and noted.

I personally see very little difference between the pressing of a book to realign the spine so it presents "better" or pressing to remove ripples crinkles or non color breaking creases so it "presents" better. Both versions are "realizing the full potential" of the book.

 

Huge difference. One is an attempt to return the make the book appear more like it was when it was new. The other is an attempt to move defects to a less noticeable spot in the hopes of a better grade with the added bonus of making the comic look fugly/ less like its original state.

 

all forms of pressing are to make defects less noticeable: therefore changing the book from one state to another. My arguement is if it is done it is done and should be noted/ detected/ disclosed.

 

Again, bad press jobs are detectable, good ones are not. So how would you like them to be noted/detected/disclosed?

 

Well, therein lies the problem. There are those who will disclose, there are those that won't. There has to be a way of detecting. It is heat pressed, maybe is a method of detecting that and then it can be noted on CGC labels "pressed".

 

I don't agree that there has to be a way of detecting. I've seen no evidence of that.

 

excuse the wording. I am wondering if a process exists to determine if heat has been used on paper and could that process be used to detect pressing?

 

I doubt it. As has been noted numerous times over the years, all comics are pressed as part of the printing process.

[comicwiz]

It's either a remarkable coincidence, or Bob was on to something when he asked PGCMint about a possible relationship.

[blazingbob]

Seems like a big family party going on.

 

I would be having a big chat with the Wilson's if I were CGC.

 

 

[Bosco685]

It's either a remarkable coincidence, or Bob was on to something when he asked for a response from PGCMint about a possible relationship.

 

Son of a gun!

 

[faster friends]

For real, this new evidence is very disturbing. All these reverse spine rolls.

[All Be D'Oh!]

It's a Wilson conspiracy. Hunt down the Wilsons!

 

 

I'm not trying to create a conspiracy or damage anyone's reputation. I have read and been keeping up with this thread, and the Wilson connection has been asked several times.

 

I found that Avengers #1 CGC 7.0 listing on eBay, worked backwards...and am sharing my findings.

[BeachBum]

Seems like a big family party going on.

 

I would be having a big chat with the Wilson's if I were CGC.

 

 

Yeah the invoice #s being so close on that new Avengers #1 7.0, and being sold by different accounts... Spread the fugly joy.

 

[blazingbob]

Yeah and you saw the response I got.

 

Silence speaks volumes.