Amazon's THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RINGS OF POWER (2022) 5 5

[Xenosmilus]

On 9/6/2022 at 4:54 PM, D84 said:

I expected a better comeback from a professional writer.

Note he is not disagreeing with Elon

[Bosco685]

It's Musk throwing shade at a fellow billionaire since this involves Jeff Bezos and his Prime platform.

The show has been surprisingly good so far. Though like with House of Dragons racism has played into the criticism.

[MetalPSI]

On 9/7/2022 at 3:17 AM, Bosco685 said:

It's Musk throwing shade at a fellow billionaire since this involves Jeff Bezos and his Prime platform.

The show has been surprisingly good so far. Though like with House of Dragons racism has played into the criticism.

These shows are racist?

[Bosco685]

On 9/7/2022 at 5:32 AM, The Meta said:

These shows are racist?

Good morning to you too

 

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/7/2022 at 3:17 AM, Bosco685 said:

It's Musk throwing shade at a fellow billionaire since this involves Jeff Bezos and his Prime platform.

The show has been surprisingly good so far. Though like with House of Dragons racism has played into the criticism.

I think the diversity in GoT was much more seamless. I think I take more issue with the fact that all the fair-skinned blonde hair people have the same hairstyle in both shows more than the skin colors of characters.

[Bosco685]

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

[Bosco685]

 

[ianh]

They just don't get it but it's funny watching them freak out and get the past actors involved. It has nothing to do with race it's just a bad show so far. None of the characters are likeable. I don't care what color an actor is as long as the story is good but it's not. They decided to push an agenda instead of Tolkien's story and now they are mad cause people are calling them out for it being a bad story because of that. I find that hilarious but expected from Hollywood. 

In comparison because they will always be compared to it now, HoD is killing it. That show is great and this is coming from someone who is a much bigger LoTR fan then they are a GoT fan.

I will still continue to watch it in hopes that it gets better but I find myself going back to the movies and watching them again now so the franchise isn't ruined for me and I can watch again what a good Tolkien story looks like.

[sfcityduck]

On 9/8/2022 at 6:31 AM, ianh said:

They just don't get it but it's funny watching them freak out and get the past actors involved. It has nothing to do with race it's just a bad show so far.

I am enjoying the show immensely. It may help that I first read the Lord of the Rings back in the 70s, have read the books at least 50+ times since, and also re-read the prequels at least several times. I am a true fanatic. And the stories told in the tv show, while not a Harry Potter style word for word rendering of the texts, are a welcome expansion of Tolkein's thoughts providing new depth and interesting characters not seen before. 

It is sad that there are stupid and pathetic folks in the world who are so insecure and/or unaccomplished that all they have to cling to is the color of their skin and the shape of their eyes.  Tolkein, born in South Africa, was an outspoken anti-racist. Yes, his story involved many different "races" (elves, dwarves, etc.), but his most important heroes were those who bridged the gaps between those races - the Fellowship composed of Elves, Dwarfs, Men and Halflings; Legolas and Gimli's great friendship; the recurring theme of the greatest mythical heroes engaging in interracial marriages (Beren and Luthien; Tuor and Idril; Elwing and Earendil; Aragorn and Arwen), etc.  His books are not in any way supportive of white supremacy.

There are no "correct" views when it comes to opinions about books, tv, and movies as we all have our own tastes (I find all things Game of Thrones to really suck - horrible stories told horribly with an ending which dissatisfied even those I know who liked the journey), so I don't think everyone who hates the show is racist. But anyone who dislikes the show because of a multi-racial cast is a racist. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by sfcityduck

[sfcityduck]

On 9/4/2022 at 7:12 AM, shadroch said:

I believe this show is set thousands of years before Aragorn. I'm enjoying it well enough, but so far I'm not see a billion dollars worth of Tolkien. A couple of name changes and this could be any fantasy world. It might be middle earth, but thus far the story could be set in any galaxy, even long ago and far away.  The second episode has lowered my enthusiasm a bit, but I'm sure I'm in it longterm. 

I think it is following the general outline provided the prequels.  I like the details being filled in.  They are interesting. Sure, some of the vision is not Tolkein's, but he's long dead and the story told by his background notes left a lot of room for filling in. I think it is very entertaining.

[Axelrod]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:31 AM, ianh said:

They just don't get it but it's funny watching them freak out and get the past actors involved. It has nothing to do with race it's just a bad show so far. None of the characters are likeable. I don't care what color an actor is as long as the story is good but it's not. They decided to push an agenda instead of Tolkien's story and now they are mad cause people are calling them out for it being a bad story because of that. I find that hilarious but expected from Hollywood. 

In comparison because they will always be compared to it now, HoD is killing it. That show is great and this is coming from someone who is a much bigger LoTR fan then they are a GoT fan.

I will still continue to watch it in hopes that it gets better but I find myself going back to the movies and watching them again now so the franchise isn't ruined for me and I can watch again what a good Tolkien story looks like.

You say it has nothing to do with race, but then what agenda exactly do you think they are pushing?

[sfcityduck]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:44 PM, Dr. Love said:

If nothing else bothered me, and believe me everything about this production bothers me, the accents alone would make me want to put an ice pick in my ear

Posh English, Cockney, Irish. Scottish - I mean for gods sake,  a Continental treat.  My poor LOTR what have they done to you?

Am I missing something?  What accents do you think Viggo and Sam were using in the movies?  Jackson made a decision to have the High Elves be upper crust English, the Halflings speak lower class English/Scottish, and Viggo speak some mid-Atlantic Danglishtina. I can't fault this show on that grounds. I liked it in LOTR and like it here.

[Dr. Love]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:05 AM, sfcityduck said:

Am I missing something?  

Discernible taste.

Just kidding, duck!  If this show floats your boat, that's great and enjoy it!  

[shadroch]

Why does anyone assume the Elves, Dwarves, Wizards and Hobbits were white to  begin with? Does Tolkien ever state any of them were ? Who is to say Gil-Galad wasn't  green? How absurd is it to accept that dwarves exist, but there can't be black ones?  Why do we think LOTR was set in Europe with Europeans instead of  Africa or Asia? Is it the same reason we assume a carpenters son from the middle east was white? Beorn was a shapeshifter. Why assume he adapts as a white man?  "White" people are a distinct minority on our Earth. Why presume it is any different on Middle Earth?

Edited September 8, 2022 by shadroch

[ianh]

I don't care what color the dwarves, elves or anyone else is I just want interesting characters and a story and so far the show has not provided that for me. Why is Celeborn not in it? He was married to Galadriel since the First Age this is the Second Age and he's not in it at all? He even gave her the name Galadriel ffs. That right there is a telling agenda to me. Girl don't need no man.

The hypocrisy of this whole race thing is what gets me too in Hollywood.

It's ok to spoon on white culture in the name of forced diversity. That I have a problem with in Hollywood.

If they made the next Black Panther a white guy people would lose their ever loving minds and call them racists. Fact. 

[drotto]

Samba TV realesed their estimates for views for the first 5 days for TROP.  They estimated 1.8 million US households, not the 25 million Amazon claimed(that was worldwide in the claim).  They also said House of the Dragons pulled in 4.8 million (HBO said 10 mil, not clear I'd that is US or worldwide) US household on it's first five days.

 

Streaming is proving exceedingly hard to qualify number if viewers.  There is no transparency from the companies. What counts as a view is a moving target, and the metrics are not uniform. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by drotto

[sfcityduck]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:56 AM, ianh said:

I don't care what color the dwarves, elves or anyone else is I just want interesting characters and a story and so far the show has not provided that for me. Why is Celeborn not in it? He was married to Galadriel since the First Age this is the Second Age and he's not in it at all? He even gave her the name Galadriel ffs. That right there is a telling agenda to me. Girl don't need no man.

 

None of the Tolkein prequel materials, including the Silmarillion, were finished products. They were all background notes. There is no "canon." The prequel stories contradict each other regarding the lives of the same characters.  So there's plenty of room to work with.  The notion that a movie/tv must have complete fidelity to the book to be a good movie/tv is long discredited. It's just a fantasy book, not the Bible.

As for your agenda comment: I think the agenda here is to tell a story about Galadriel before she became the ancient grandparent we see in LOTR. She obviously had a life before she was married, in fact she was a member of a prominent family of hotheads and fighters who got themselves banished for disrespecting authority, so the story told so far is plausible.

Are you bothered by the concept of a strong pre-married woman?  Not sure your point.

[sfcityduck]

On 9/8/2022 at 8:56 AM, ianh said:

 

The hypocrisy of this whole race thing is what gets me too in Hollywood.

It's ok to spoon on white culture in the name of forced diversity. That I have a problem with in Hollywood.

If they made the next Black Panther a white guy people would lose their ever loving minds and call them racists. Fact. 

I don't see the hypocrisy. When Bridgerton portrays Regency era London as a multi-cultural and diverse society the only liberty it takes is to show blacks becoming nobility a few hundred years too early. There is no need for a character played by a black actor in Bridgerton to have been played by a white person as race is not essential to the character. There's no reason why Hermione can't be black, or Harry Potter, or most literary characters whose race is not relevant to their essential characteristics.  In Hamilton, portraying George Washington as black is historically inaccurate but it captures the aspirations of our nation. It also is a counterpoint to the many times that whites have been cast in Hollywood as blacks, Asians, native Americans, eskimos, etc.

I dunno, I hear people say "I'm color blind when it comes to race" but that sure doesn't seem the case in these contexts.

Having said that, I think color blind only goes so far. The Black Panther is a character for whom race is an essential characteristic. So I can see why that would more justifiably upset fans. And, you're right, that change would draw a charge of racism. It would probably be justified unless the producers had a really good reason to make the change. And if a historical drama changed MLK Jr. to a white, that too would probably draw some serious criticism (just as changing Hitler to a Jew would) that would probably be justified. But, here, we're talking about a fantasy where skin color is not essential to the characters. 

And, of course, there's the fact that white actors, benefitting from white privilege, have been cast to play other ethnicities in "black face" or "yellow face" etc. for about a hundred years. (Reminds me that in Shakespeare's time men played the female roles). So maybe its time to give good actors from other races a chance to play more roles that would, in less enlightened times, have gone to whites automatically.

I agree that Hollywood is full of racial hypocrisy, but to me its accepting white actors playing other races for a hundred years and getting up in arms over the reverse now.

Edited September 8, 2022 by sfcityduck

[drotto]

On 9/8/2022 at 12:15 PM, sfcityduck said:

None of the Tolkein prequel materials, including the Silmarillion, were finished products. They were all background notes. There is no "canon." The prequel stories contradict each other regarding the lives of the same characters.  So there's plenty of room to work with.  The notion that a movie/tv must have complete fidelity to the book to be a good movie/tv is long discredited. It's just a fantasy book, not the Bible.

As for your agenda comment: I think the agenda here is to tell a story about Galadriel before she became the ancient grandparent we see in LOTR. She obviously had a life before she was married, in fact she was a member of a prominent family of hotheads and fighters who got themselves banished for disrespecting authority, so the story told so far is plausible.

Are you bothered by the concept of a strong pre-married woman?  Not sure your point.

Granted by the Second age it is established by Tolkien Galadriel was both married and had a child. There are contradictions in the "canon", but this is not one of them.