Don Rosa Poll - Pedigree or Collection?

[Don Rosa-migration]

?

I didn't put that stupid emoticon in that last message! How the @#$#%^ did that get there?

[Scrooge]

?

I didn't put that stupid emoticon in that last message! How the @#$#%^ did that get there?

 

The type-code for the emoticon matched exactly what you typed which is "hm"

[Timulty]

Gets them everytime!!!!

[deathlok]

Gets them everytime!!!!

[Mushroom]

Church wanted to be an artist so he bought and preserved the books. Show me how he lucked out? He lucked out by purchasing every book he could from about 1938-1953 and storing them basically untouched in his basement? Who's painting anyone as a saint?

So, you're 100% sure Mr. Edgar Church was "damn lazy". How the [embarrassing lack of self control] would you know?

 

and how the hell would you know........

 

He was an illustrator....he actually cut up some books....the books he bought he just shoved in cupboards.....he didn't contact anybody to say that he had this massive collection that he lovingly preserved.... you are the crazy one...show me the evidence that he knowingly and with forethought determined he would protect these books for later generations or did the conditions and his lack of interest in reading the material and the geographics make for a great result......

 

well???

 

and as for your absolute prejudice around GA....well that kind of snobbery is not very becoming.

 

With all those collectors doing the same thing as Don Rosa...well where the hell are they. They must be owned by rich people who don't need the money that CGC has driven for HG books.

[tth2]

why cant it be a Pedigree from a later era? Is it HIS fault all of the books we now consider keys were published BEFORE he began accumulating his pristine well cared for collection of EVERY comics ever sold (except 2 publishers??)

What are you getting so worked up for? You make it sound like some grave injustice has occurred and that his collection should be burned because it doesn't qualify for pedigree status. Just because it's not a "pedigree" doesn't mean it's not a great collection. The high grades and high prices Don is achieving shows that collectors place plenty of value on his books.

 

And in fact, the fact that the keys were published before he began accumulating his collection DOES make all the difference in the world. How many people were carefully storing their comic collections before 1964? The answer is apparently not many, otherwise why would people have such a hard time finding HG copies? How many people were storing their comic collections in 1965? Apparently, a whole lot, because the number of HG copies from 1965 and later is exponentially higher.

 

Flipped around, you are stating that if there are no more key books after 1964, then that means there can be no more Pedigree collections??

Yes! Although actually my point is more about collecting habits rather than keys. It just so happens that many of the early keys are hard to find in HG because they were produced before good preservation really caught on.

 

PS - - I dont own any of them... I just argue that its complete, its high grade and theyre fabulous!!

I don't disagree. But that's "all" they are.

 

Lets see 20 more such collections turn up. THEN we can know for sure that "everybody" was putting away equal collections. Maybe they are out there.... I dont think THIS one should be penalized on the ASSUMPTION of being run-of-the-mill.

I have no doubt that there are at least 20 similar late SA/early BA collections out there, and they probably will continue to turn up. However, I would also point out that a lot of similar quality collections have already emerged, they just weren't marketed as such and trickled out piecemeal. Or do you think all those 9.4 and higher copies of so many late SA books existed in isolation?

[tth2]

I have every issue that Archie pub put out from 1982-1989. I bought them all off the rack, and read each issue once and carefully stored them. They're all probably at least 9.2's (I sent in 4 issues of Katy Keene #1 from 1983, and 3 came back 9.6, one 9.2).

 

Why can't this be a pedigree too? I'll answer you. Again, because the collective "cat was out of the bag" about collecting funny books. Once it had become an established hobby (multiple comic stores, prices guides, cons, et al) you can't then create your own pedigree.

 

I'll bet Don Rosa, if he wanted too, could've read about the collecting hobby from an issue of Alter-Ego back in '65. Let's not forget, that's where this "pedigree wannabe" begins! Decades after the first appearance of Superman, Batman, Human Torch, Captain America, Archie, Wonder Woman, etc. Decades after the books surviving the great depression, the paper drives of WWII, the "Wertham" age of the mid 1950's.

Also, years after the resurgence of Flash, X-Men, Fantastic Four #1, Amazing Fantasy #15, The Incredible Hulk, etc. To call this group of books with highlights that include Cap #100, early Avengers, Daredevil, and all the post-1970 [embarrassing lack of self control] a pedigree is an insult to people who bought and preserved those books in the 1940's. Edgar Church, Allentown, O'Reilly, Windy City, Rockford - those are pedigrees.

 

It's not a pedigree, just an amazing collection from the early days of WIDESPREAD comic collecting en masse.

[tth2]

Well, no, I never cared for "Golden Age" (pre-1946). They struck me as crude and childish.

[tth2]

With all those collectors doing the same thing as Don Rosa...well where the hell are they. They must be owned by rich people who don't need the money that CGC has driven for HG books.

As I said to Aman, a lot may have already been broken up, or trickled out slowly, and simply never recognized as a collection.

 

Let's be real. Don's collection is unusual and extremely impressive because of its breadth, because he was more of a completist than most collectors of that period. But the fact that he was more of a completist doesn't mean his collection should be given pedigree status. There is simply nothing unusual about finding a HG run of ASMs, or Avengers, or X-Mens, etc. from 1965 on. They might not all have been under one person's roof, but collectively in the marketplace there are tons of them.

[Shield]

Church wanted to be an artist so he bought and preserved the books. Show me how he lucked out? He lucked out by purchasing every book he could from about 1938-1953 and storing them basically untouched in his basement? Who's painting anyone as a saint?

So, you're 100% sure Mr. Edgar Church was "damn lazy". How the [embarrassing lack of self control] would you know?

 

and how the hell would you know........

 

He was an illustrator....he actually cut up some books....the books he bought he just shoved in cupboards.....he didn't contact anybody to say that he had this massive collection that he lovingly preserved.... you are the crazy one...show me the evidence that he knowingly and with forethought determined he would protect these books for later generations or did the conditions and his lack of interest in reading the material and the geographics make for a great result......

 

well???

 

and as for your absolute prejudice around GA....well that kind of snobbery is not very becoming.

 

With all those collectors doing the same thing as Don Rosa...well where the hell are they. They must be owned by rich people who don't need the money that CGC has driven for HG books.

 

 

How the hell would I know? That's laughable! I was quoting someone (was it you?) who said "Edgar Church was lazy". I said "How the hell would you know if he was or wasn't?" I wouldn't know anything about Edgar Church!

 

HEY GET THIS EVERYONE! MUSHROOM SAID of EDGAR CHURCH "THE BOOKS HE BOUGHT HE JUST SHOVED IN CUPBOARDS!"

 

 

 

Ha ha ha ha ha Sure, that's where most 9.6 copies of Flash #1 are! Just SHOVED in cupboards! Mushroom, have you even read the history of the Church collection? Go get some knowledge before you want to discuss this with me. You'll find the the books were stored with their spines alternated for *gasp* PRESERVATION.

 

HAHAHAHA "JUST SHOVED IN CUPBOARDS"

 

Hey everyone! Throw away those nasty Church copies from the "very lazy" guy who just threw 'em in cupboards....

 

I've got to step away from here for a bit when I'm arguing with someone this clueless.

[The Black Hand ®]

Where did you find that guy Shield?

[Mushroom]

Typical that you read into things that aren't there....where did I say that the church copies weren't the finest books in existence. Grow up......and maybe you should do some more research. The first 10,000 books were in stacks on the floor and even chuck talks about comic books all the way into the rafters.

 

You make it sound like he had temperature controlled rooms with low lighting when in fact he had them stacked everywhere. Sure he had a padlocked cupboard but that was less than half the deal.

 

The reason for my counter view (which you can't countenance at all) is that you don't know and I don't know so when you state something as fact then generally you should be able to back it up........so show me your facts.

[Shield]

Typical that you read into things that aren't there....where did I say that the church copies weren't the finest books in existence. Grow up......and maybe you should do some more research. The first 10,000 books were in stacks on the floor and even chuck talks about comic books all the way into the rafters.

 

You make it sound like he had temperature controlled rooms with low lighting when in fact he had them stacked everywhere. Sure he had a padlocked cupboard but that was less than half the deal.

 

The reason for my counter view (which you can't countenance at all) is that you don't know and I don't know so when you state something as fact then generally you should be able to back it up........so show me your facts.

 

Facts on what? Someone said that Edgar Church was very lazy; I said "How the hell do you know?" Then you asked me how the hell I knew.

 

What is your counterview anyway, Mr. "THE BOOKS HE BOUGHT HE JUST SHOVED IN CUPBOARDS!"

 

 

I'll allow you to retract that absurd statement if you like...

[Shield]

Where did you find that guy Shield?

 

Oh, I didn't find him.

 

Sorry, the following books received these grades, even though they were "just shoved in a cupboard!"

 

 

 

[october]

Cool graph!

[Darthdiesel]

 

 

 

 

Bah... i've crahpped out more 9.8s

 

Besides we know those 9.4s and 9.6s are after techniques have helped them get closer to acheiving their "full potential"

[Shield]

Are you re-writing history now shield.....Church didn't do this great collection thing of buying and preserving ephemera....he lucked out. To be honest I know he was doing this reference thing but he was also damn lazy and probably couldn't be bothered dumping it. Please don't try and paint him as a saint.....

 

Ah, it WAS you. Clearly this post is by far the worst post I've ever read. Edgar Church has done more for this hobby than you and I combined times 1000.

 

Mushroom, get a clue. Do you not realize that Edgar was barely clinging to life when the collection was picked up by Chuck? Again, go read from the Mile High webpage.

 

"Couldn't be bothered dumping it". That's so stupid. I'll find a excerpt for you, since obviously YOU'RE too lazy...

 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/main.html

 

"What made this an exceptionally surreal experience was that I now knew that Edgar Church was still alive! I can't remember any more exactly during which visit that I was told the story, but his heirs told me that Mr. Church was suffering from a very debilitating illness (I think it was either Alzheimer's or a stroke...) that had left him unable to care for himself. His wife had been his primary caregiver, but she was by that time also in her mid-eighties. When she fell in the house and broke her hip, their worst fears were realized. I gathered that she was alone at the time of her accident, and that it took quite some time for her to get assistance after her fall. To keep this from happening again, the family made the decision to find a nursing home for the two of them."

[Shield]

He was an illustrator....he actually cut up some books....the books he bought he just shoved in cupboards.....

 

Yet another pearl of wisdom from Mushroom!

 

Sorry, but it was the MAGAZINES he cut up, not comics. Read the article again.

 

"Mr. Church continued to produce freelance artwork all through the 1920's and 1930's. He was an accomplished artist, with the ability to mimic almost any style. It clearly helped him, however, to have a vast clipping file from which to borrow ideas. It was part of his enormous collection of line art magazine covers, interior artwork, and advertising pages that the heirs had thrown away during my first visit to the house.

 

At this point I need to draw an important distinction between Mr. Church's attitude toward his reference files, and his comics. The reference files were made up entirely of clippings and covers from line art magazines, and pulps. Mr. Church was ruthless with these magazines, chopping them into bits with gusto. The pieces he wanted to keep were then put into legal storage boxes shaped to look like books. These boxes had hinged lids that opened, and each was about 5 inches deep. Mr. Church had labeled each of his storage boxes, so he could quickly go to his bookshelf and easily pull down categories such as "Maxfield Parrish," "Dogs," or "Bridal." To this day, I have this vision of him sitting in his basement during the Great Depression, listening to old-time radio, and happily cutting up his magazines."

 

My best estimate is that he filled about 300-400 boxes with clippings during his years of effort.

His comics (at least all the ones he purchased from 1938-1947), on the other hand, were in a room that had been padlocked for years. I think I eventually found one comic (out of 18,000) that had some notes in the margins. Other than that single book, he kept his comics in perfect condition. It was clear to me from the fact that the heirs had to break the padlock off of the closet that his children were never allowed to touch his comics.

 

Sounds like a guy trying to preserve books to me, eh ol' Mushroom, evil genius?

 

[VintageComics]

 

I think we get the point....

[Shield]

Bah... i've crahpped out more 9.8s

 

 

Too bad they were common "bronze" poopings! I'll Paypal you some cash, can you poop out another Flash #1 in 9.6?