ANT-MAN & THE WASP QUANTUMANIA directed by Peyton Reed (2023) 11 11

[drotto]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:35 PM, Cat said:

That's exactly what I wanted to talk about. What. The. Hell. Those texts definitely say a lot. But not what he was hoping. They sound like they're coming from a textbook abused woman. She literally says it was her fault for reaching for his phone. I mean come on, what kind of insufficiently_thoughtful_person does his lawyer take us for? Are we seriously supposed to read that and go 'oh yeah, she admits she reached for his phone, she obviously deserved a beating.' 

Ludicrous. 

 

It reads like she grabbed the phone, and was yelling at him, and he grabbed and slapped her in the process of taking it back. So she technically started it, and he over reacted in response. That is just my conjecture, nothing more, but it fits the facts we have.

 

Beyond over analyzing this, it does put the MCU on hold till at least the hearing in May.  How can Marvel work on half its current projects, without knowing where this goes. If they push forward and he is guilty, then they will be forced into major changes. If he is 100% exonerated, they can't replace him based on false accusations, because that would be a PR nightmare.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:48 PM, drotto said:

Beyond over analyzing this, it does put the MCU on hold till at least the hearing in May.  How can Marvel work on half its current projects, without knowing where this goes. If they push forward and he is guilty, then they will be forced into major changes. If he is 100% exonerated, they can't replace him based on false accusations, because that would be a PR nightmare.

Loki 2 has already wrapped filming, and we can assume it's in post-production. Given the current tone of this news story in the media and the public, I think Marvel Studios stays the course with Loki 2 and keeps Jonathan Majors' Professor Timely in the edit.

The only MCU film currently filming right now I think is Captain America New World Order, which is not a Kang storyline. So I don't think Majors' arrest controversy really affects anything right now.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 11:21 AM, jsilverjanet said:

they are movies based on comics - those comic stories were never really that good to begin with and the good stories were stripped down to appeal to the masses or due to the characters they could use (no FF, no X-men, no Spiderman)

 

I'd say in a lot of cases, the movies are better than the comics, disregarding the fact that film is a higher art form than the comics. In the MCU's case, it's my opinion that a lot of these characters have found their perfect form in the films. I'd say that about Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor, Doctor Strange, Wanda, T'Challa, and yes, Carol Danvers. Heck I'd say the Eternals movie is probably better than the comics.

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I'd say in a lot of cases, the movies are better than the comics, disregarding the fact that film is a higher art form than the comics. In the MCU's case, it's my opinion that a lot of these characters have found their perfect form in the films. I'd say that about Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor, Doctor Strange, Wanda, T'Challa, and yes, Carol Danvers. Heck I'd say the Eternals movie is probably better than the comics.

Wow, really?

A completely different medium I would say. I will stop there.

[Cat]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:02 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

 disregarding the fact that film is a higher art form than the comics. 

Do you know where you are?

Wow. 

[Bosco685]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:12 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

Wow, really?

A completely different medium I would say. I will stop there.

I cherish my years of comic books and the stories they delivered. Even with all the comic book films and shows I have enjoyed.

To me, comic books were the key influences for the productions we enjoy today. Without them, I'm sure we'd be enjoying cowboy and gangster movies from time to time. And periodic Sherlock Holmes films.

[D84]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:56 AM, Hulksdaddy1 said:

So, does Disney/Marvel pay you weekly, or bi-weekly? 

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:47 PM, Bosco685 said:

On 3/30/2023 at 8:12 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

Wow, really?

A completely different medium I would say. I will stop there.

I cherish my years of comic books and the stories they delivered. Even with all the comic book films and shows I have enjoyed.

To me, comic books were the key influences for the productions we enjoy today. Without them, I'm sure we'd be enjoying cowboy and gangster movies from time to time. And periodic Sherlock Holmes films.

Agreed!

It's insulting to have to state the obvious that all art is its own experience. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:43 PM, Cat said:

Do you know where you are?

Wow. 

Yeah, a forum for comic book MOVIE discussion. The truth hurts? I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, and they can’t stand up to  the highest examples of cinematic art, whether it’s Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, Vertigo, Tokyo Story, Star Wars, City Lights, or any other movie from any top 100 list.

[@therealsilvermane]

Not even to mention the complexity of craftsmanship and human hours it takes to make a film compared to a comic book. 

[Gatsby77]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:18 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a forum for comic book MOVIE discussion. The truth hurts? I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, and they can’t stand up to  the highest examples of cinematic art, whether it’s Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, Vertigo, Tokyo Story, Star Wars, City Lights, or any other movie from any top 100 list.

?

IMDB (as in...regular movie audiences) have ranked The Dark Knight as the # 3 movie of all time, behind only The Shawshank Redemption and The Godfather.

Yes - the IMDB list has a recency bias - but The Dark Knight is easily as good as - and far more accessible than - films like Tokyo Story or City Lights.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:36 PM, Gatsby77 said:

?

IMDB (as in...regular movie audiences) have ranked The Dark Knight as the # 3 movie of all time, behind only The Shawshank Redemption and The Godfather.

Yes - the IMDB list has a recency bias - but The Dark Knight is easily as good as - and far more accessible than - films like Tokyo Story or City Lights.

I’m not talking about comic book movies specifically here. I’m talking about cinema vs the comic book. 

[Gatsby77]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:41 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I’m not talking about comic book movies specifically here. I’m talking about cinema vs the comic book. 

Fair.

But - and this is my opinion here - I still disagree.

I would choose to reread:

• The Watchmen
• The Dark Knight Returns
• The Killing Joke
• Sandman (#s 10, 13, 18, 19, 30, 50, 52)
• Animal Man # 5
• 100 Bullets # 27
• Wonder Woman (vol. 2) # 20

and many more...

over watching Tokyo Story, Cinema Lights, and *many* "classic" movies.

Plus both film and comic books are considered pop art or low art.

As such, they have far more in common with each other than they do in comparison to the world's best oil paintings, wood cut prints, sculptures, cathedrals or architecture.

[Cat]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:44 AM, Bosco685 said:

That's why I am holding out judgment until we hear from a non-biased legal source.

But to me, it is leaning toward he was the clear aggressor, and the woman is doing the typical abused partner caving-in (my partner abused me because I was asking for it).

Well this was from HIS lawyer, so it should have painted him in the best possible light, fawning over what a great guy he is. Instead we got... that. 

[Cat]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:18 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a forum for comic book MOVIE discussion. The truth hurts? I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, and they can’t stand up to  the highest examples of cinematic art, whether it’s Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, Vertigo, Tokyo Story, Star Wars, City Lights, or any other movie from any top 100 list.

Or. OR. You could understand that each has its place in the entertainment echelon, and it's not a fair comparison. Do we throw out movies because artworks are a higher form of art? Who needs Metropolis when we have Michelangelo's David? Burn all film, right?

Do books trump portraits or vice versa? Hmmmm. 

[october]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:18 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Knight Returns

People REALLY need to explore comics that don't exclusively feature men wearing capes.

Edited March 31, 2023 by october

[drotto]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:31 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Not even to mention the complexity of craftsmanship and human hours it takes to make a film compared to a comic book. 

Different forms of art are not directly comparable, and it is impossible to place one above the other.  They may share common components, have a similar purpose, and convey similar idea, but they are a different medium. They do things differently, and have different components that make them great. I do not buy into the idea of high or low art, because everyone has different tastes and their preferred medium. In music I prefer hard rock and metal (low music), I do not listen to classical (high music), but does not mean I am dismissive or would belittle the talent it takes to make classical music. Or have that attitude towards people who love it. 

 

The time to make and complexity to make argument is also baffling. Is the Mono Lisa lower art than a Marvel movie, I am sure it took less time to make? How about the music of Back or Mozart, both very prolific and honored?  How about a masterful TV series that ran for years, that took more time to make than a movie when looked at over time, so it is better then, correct? I have seen plenty of movies and TV shows that a lot of time and hard work went into, still did not make them good. 

 

Now you can compare movies and movies in aspects they clearly share, like plot and storytelling.  You can not compare them on overall presentation, because they have inherent differences, strengths, and weaknesses. I would argue there are many stories that are far better in the comics.  My introduction to comics was the Dark Phenix Sage, find me anyone that will say movie is better.  Although the 90's cartoon version was really good.

 

When you make statements that are this universal, you are clearly not open to any debate or differences in opinion. It just shows all your own inherent biases, how intrenched in your opinions you are, and how closed minded you can be. 

 

Sorry if this response is a bit rambling. 

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:18 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a forum for comic book MOVIE discussion. The truth hurts? I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, and they can’t stand up to  the highest examples of cinematic art, whether it’s Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, Vertigo, Tokyo Story, Star Wars, City Lights, or any other movie from any top 100 list.

They are different things, experienced in different ways, exciting different reactions. Art is not measured in man-hours to produce (I hesitate to use the word create here) but in the amount of time something stays with you. By this measure the MCU is about as low as it gets.

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:50 PM, drotto said:

Different forms of art are not directly comparable, and it is impossible to place one above the other.  They may share common components, have a similar purpose, and convey similar idea, but they are a different medium. They do things differently, and have different components that make them great. I do not buy into the idea of high or low art, because everyone has different tastes and their preferred medium. In music I prefer hard rock and metal (low music), I do not listen to classical (high music), but does not mean I am dismissive or would belittle the talent it takes to make classical music. Or have that attitude towards people who love it. 

 

The time to make and complexity to make argument is also baffling. Is the Mono Lisa lower art than a Marvel movie, I am sure it took less time to make? How about the music of Back or Mozart, both very prolific and honored?  How about a masterful TV series that ran for years, that took more time to make than a movie when looked at over time, so it is better then, correct? I have seen plenty of movies and TV shows that a lot of time and hard work went into, still did not make them good. 

 

Now you can compare movies and movies in aspects they clearly share, like plot and storytelling.  You can not compare them on overall presentation, because they have inherent differences, strengths, and weaknesses. I would argue there are many stories that are far better in the comics.  My introduction to comics was the Dark Phenix Sage, find me anyone that will say movie is better.  Although the 90's cartoon version was really good.

 

When you make statements that are this universal, you are clearly not open to any debate or differences in opinion. It just shows all your own inherent biases, how intrenched in your opinions you are, and how closed minded you can be. 

 

Sorry if this response is a bit rambling. 

This is a great post. l disagree with your use of high and low art here and there but really appreciate your qualifying it as your opinion. It shows a basic courtesy lacking by some.

[Larryw7]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:18 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Yeah, a forum for comic book MOVIE discussion. The truth hurts? I mean, take the highest examples of comic book art, say Watchmen or Dark Knight Returns, and they can’t stand up to  the highest examples of cinematic art, whether it’s Citizen Kane, Seven Samurai, Vertigo, Tokyo Story, Star Wars, City Lights, or any other movie from any top 100 list.

Frazetta, EC , Wood, Maus, Eisner, early Ditko, Barks, Ross...