ANT-MAN & THE WASP QUANTUMANIA directed by Peyton Reed (2023) 11 11

[drotto]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:00 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Great. More anti-Phase Four propaganda generated by toxic YouTubers. (sigh) Work is never done…

Ya Boi Zack is comparing 3 complete MCU phases that have 5 Avengers movies (including Civil War) to 1.1 MCU phases that don’t  have an Avengers movie yet and was, as Kevin Feige said, a phase where Marvel is trying new things. Real fair…

Matt Fraction’s Hawkeye, Jason Aaron’s Thor, Dan Slott’s She-Hulk, and Warren Ellis’s Moon Knight were all popular critically acclaimed comics stories. 

Although Black Widow might’ve had an underlying theme of trafficking women maybe, I fail to see any underlying agendas in the stories of Shang-Chi, Eternals, Spider-Man No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, or QuAntuMania. These movies focused on superhero journeys, it just so happens that a lot of critics didn’t like three of these movies. By stories with agendas, does Zack the boy mean the diverse casts?

Phase Four focused on unfamiliar characters? Are Black Widow, Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Loki, Clint Barton, Thor, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and Prince Namor unfamiliar characters?

One show in Phase Four poked fun at the fans, She-Hulk, which also poked fun at Marvel Studiios, because the show is a 4th wall breaking meta comedy series. Ask Will Smith, some guys can’t take jokes. 

Some characters in Phase Four are almost literally lifted out of the comics, including Kate Bishop, Kamala Khan, and She-Hulk. Yes, Shang -Chindiesnt really resemble his 70-80’s comic book self and that’s a good thing. It was fine then, outdated as heck now.

Yes, that’s correct, Victoria Alonso was promoted to head of VFX after Phase Three. I didn’t see poor VFX in Zack boy’s tilted list of faux comparisons.

 

None of this changes that phase 4, is widely disliked, and even media that was very supportive of the MCU is starting to acknowledge the problems.  

[Artboy99]

On 3/26/2023 at 11:47 PM, Beastfeast said:

I don't think that the MCU has ever made good movies.  They've been fun and entertaining but these things aren't exactly high cinema.  

That being said, I re-watched Infinity War a few weeks ago and it's pretty bad.  It has all the same awful tropes that the new phases have.  However, it was a huge wrap up of years of fun movies that almost everyone was stoked to see.  As someone else said - it was an event.

There was a newness to the shared universe and it's just lost its luster.  I don't think it's much deeper than that.  Some of yall are acting like these were ever well told stories.   

Infinity War did have some moments in the film where the comic nerd in me went "WOW".

I LOVE this scene, and it is the version of Thor I want to see more of:

 

[Microchip]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:41 AM, Artboy99 said:

 

I LOVE this scene, and it is the version of Thor I want to see more of:

 

[godzilla43]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:00 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

 

Phase Four focused on unfamiliar characters? Are Black Widow, Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Loki, Clint Barton, Thor, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and Prince Namor unfamiliar characters?

 

 

He probably was talking about  Eternals, Shang-Chi, Black Knight, Yelena Belova, Shuri, Ironheart, Ms Marvel etc.

Edited March 30, 2023 by godzilla43

[Bosco685]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:42 AM, godzilla43 said:

Stop twisting stuff. You know very well what are those unfamiliar characters: Eternals, Shang-Chi, Black Knight, Yelena Belova, Shuri, Ironheart, Ms Marvel etc. because you have tried to hype up those thrash films when they came out.

Caution. Someone may notify forum management their God-given right to counter any facts with repeated twisted logic is being trampled upon.

[theCapraAegagrus]

While Doctor Strange was in two Phase Bore movies, to say that he was "focused on" is quite... Strange... Because he was an afterthought in his own sequel, and simply a plot device for No Way Home.

[drotto]

On 3/30/2023 at 7:01 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

While Doctor Strange was in two Phase Bore movies, to say that he was "focused on" is quite... Strange... Because he was an afterthought in his own sequel, and simply a plot device for No Way Home.

MoM should clearly have been titled The Scarlet Witch vs America Chavez in the Multiverse or Madness.

[jsilverjanet]

On 3/26/2023 at 12:57 PM, october said:

Disney is still living in the days where they could slap the MCU brand on any obscure character, follow their formula, and print money. That model is deader than fried chicken...likely for good.

I mean, a show starring Echo?!? Who asked for that? Who is excited for that? They have no clue what they are doing at this point, but hey, it was a great run. Truly. Nothing lasts forever.

I believe they saw an opportunity to expand the marvel base with their disney brand base (young, female driven) on a new streaming service but it has not worked.

if you look at the shows and movies in phase 4 none of them really tie into on another, and if they do it's really thin connection

[jsilverjanet]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:47 AM, Beastfeast said:

I don't think that the MCU has ever made good movies.  They've been fun and entertaining but these things aren't exactly high cinema.  

That being said, I re-watched Infinity War a few weeks ago and it's pretty bad.  It has all the same awful tropes that the new phases have.  However, it was a huge wrap up of years of fun movies that almost everyone was stoked to see.  As someone else said - it was an event.

There was a newness to the shared universe and it's just lost its luster.  I don't think it's much deeper than that.  Some of yall are acting like these were ever well told stories.   

they are movies based on comics - those comic stories were never really that good to begin with and the good stories were stripped down to appeal to the masses or due to the characters they could use (no FF, no X-men, no Spiderman)

 

[Hulksdaddy1]

On 3/29/2023 at 7:00 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Great. More anti-Phase Four propaganda generated by toxic YouTubers. (sigh) Work is never done…

Yes, even Kevin Feige admits that the MCU hasn’t been full on zeitgeist recently , which is why they’re now focusing on quality over content. Rushed scripts, rushed schedules, and rushed post-production might have resulted in a few projects that could’ve used more time in all phases of production (like Love and Thunder or QuAntuMania) But this list’s creator is so focused on his apparent anti-woke agenda that that’s all he seems to be considering here.

Ya Boi Zack is comparing 3 complete MCU phases that have 5 Avengers movies (including Civil War) to 1.1 MCU phases that don’t  have an Avengers movie yet and was, as Kevin Feige said, a phase where Marvel is trying new things. Real fair…

Matt Fraction’s Hawkeye, Jason Aaron’s Thor, Dan Slott’s She-Hulk, and Warren Ellis’s Moon Knight were all popular critically acclaimed comics stories. 

Although Black Widow might’ve had an underlying theme of trafficking women maybe, I fail to see any underlying agendas in the stories of Shang-Chi, Eternals, Spider-Man No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever, or QuAntuMania. These movies focused on superhero journeys, it just so happens that a lot of critics didn’t like three of these movies. By stories with agendas, does Zack the boy mean the diverse heroes ?

Phase Four focused on unfamiliar characters? Are Black Widow, Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Loki, Clint Barton, Thor, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, and Prince Namor unfamiliar characters?

One show in Phase Four poked fun at the fans, She-Hulk, which also poked fun at Marvel Studiios, because the show is a 4th wall breaking meta comedy series. Ask Will Smith, some guys can’t take jokes. 

Unrecognizable character? Some characters in Phase Four are almost literally lifted out of the comics, including Kate Bishop, Kamala Khan, and She-Hulk. Yes, Shang -Chi doesn’t really resemble his 70-80’s comic book version and that’s a good thing, because while it was maybe fine then, it’s outdated as heck now.

Yes, that’s correct, Victoria Alonso was promoted to head of VFX after Phase Three. I didn’t see poor VFX in Zack boy’s tilted list of faux comparisons.

 

So, does Disney/Marvel pay you weekly, or bi-weekly? 

[media_junkie]

On 3/30/2023 at 11:18 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I believe they saw an opportunity to expand the marvel base with their disney brand base (young, female driven) on a new streaming service but it has not worked.

 

Ok, asking this because I legit don't know, has there ever been a comic book movie that there was a bigger female audience than male audience?  I would assume if it has it would have to be one of the female heroes like Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Captain Marvel or Black Widow, but has it happened?

[Gatsby77]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:24 PM, media_junkie said:

Ok, asking this because I legit don't know, has there ever been a comic book movie that there was a bigger female audience than male audience?  I would assume if it has it would have to be one of the female heroes like Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Captain Marvel or Black Widow, but has it happened?

That's a great question.

I did a few quick Google searches and Wonder Woman was one.

Depending on the source used, the female audience percentage was between 52-56%.

And Big Hero 6 was supposedly close to even (50/50).

Neither Captain Marvel nor Black Widow hit majority women.

But I wonder about non-obvious comic book movies, like Ghost World. Wouldn't surprise me if the theatrical audience for it skewed to (slightly) more female than male.

[drotto]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:29 PM, Gatsby77 said:

That's a great question.

I did a few quick Google searches and Wonder Woman was one.

Depending on the source used, the female audience percentage was between 52-56%.

And Big Hero 6 was supposedly close to even (50/50).

Neither Captain Marvel nor Black Widow hit majority women.

But I wonder about non-obvious comic book movies, like Ghost World. Wouldn't surprise me if the theatrical audience for it skewed to (slightly) more female than male.

Another general question, is it OK for certain things to cater more towards men or women?  Women in general prefer, romcoms, romancr, princess movies (Disney for girls), girl friend movies, period dramas, and soap operas. Men has always been draw more towards action movies, Superheroes, Scifi, and war films. This is in fact why Disney bought Marvel and Star Wars, they had an interest problem with men, and more specifically boys.

 

That seems perfectly fine to me, the companies know (or knew) their audiences and make movies intended for those audiences. Different groups (beyond men and women) have different tastes and wants from entertainment. Any company should be free to cater to those different groups. So now some are insisting that genres that have traditionally been male oriented must be made more female friendly.  You do not see this the other way around, they are not trying to masculinize female oriented films. This has led to a decline in movies for "men".  I think this is why you have recently seen films like Top Gun, and John Wick do better then expected, because these are unequivocally masculine movies, and the market is signaling its desire for those types of films again.

 

It's OK if not everything is for everyone, but everyone is invited.

Edited March 30, 2023 by drotto

[october]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:29 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Ghost World

So good. Both the movie and the comic. 

[Bosco685]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:24 PM, media_junkie said:

Ok, asking this because I legit don't know, has there ever been a comic book movie that there was a bigger female audience than male audience?  I would assume if it has it would have to be one of the female heroes like Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Captain Marvel or Black Widow, but has it happened?

The annual MPAA reports outline all sorts of interesting details about the domestic and worldwide market. Including physical versus digital market growth trending.

The 2017 report summarizes the domestic results for Wonder Woman (Gender, Ethnicity).

[Cat]

Is there any discussion of the Jonathon Majors thing going on anywhere? 

[Bosco685]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:08 PM, Cat said:

Is there any discussion of the Jonathon Majors thing going on anywhere? 

Quote

An attorney for Jonathan Majors released text messages on Thursday that he claims came from the woman whom he is accused of assaulting, in which she appears to take the blame for the fight.

 

According to the messages, which have not been independently verified, the woman wrote Majors afterwards that “I told them it was my fault for trying to grab your phone.” She also said that she was “angry” that Majors had been arrested, and that she had made clear that the charges did not have her blessing.

 

“I reiterated how this was not an attack,” the woman allegedly wrote. The person who sent the texts also indicates she had “injuries” and that “we had a fight.”

 

A representative for the NYPD said, “We have an active and ongoing investigation but cannot comment beyond that.”

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:42 AM, godzilla43 said:

He probably was talking about  Eternals, Shang-Chi, Black Knight, Yelena Belova, Shuri, Ironheart, Ms Marvel etc.

Oh, I know exactly what Zack the boy was talking about. My question if he forgot Loki, Spider-Man, Doctor Strange, etc was rhetorical. Although something tells me if Eternals was more about Black Knight, he wouldn't have had a problem with that.

But the statement was "focus on unfamiliar characters", plain and simple. However, only two out of the seven feature films of Phase Four were films about brand new heroes, Shang-Chi and Eternals(which includes the Black Knight). The other five movies were sequels to established well known MCU characters. Yes, they introduced new heroes within those films, but MCU sequel films have always done that. Iron Man 2 wasn't just Iron Man, it also introduced Black Widow and War Machine. Captain America Winter Soldier introduced Falcon and Winter Soldier Bucky. Thor Ragnarok introduced Valkyrie and Korg. 

While Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness introduced America Chavez, it was still a Doctor Strange movie that featured his spiritual hero journey and power-up to be the Superior Dr. Strange of the multiverse. Thor Love and Thunder may have introduced Jane Foster Thor, but the movie was still Thor's spiritual journey of getting through a god's mid-life crisis. Wakanda Forever introduced a new Black Panther because T'Challa died, and Shuri was not an unfamiliar character in the MCU by any means, as she was a fan favorite from the first film. Just as Phase Two and Three sequel movies introduced new characters yet kept it the main hero's story, so did the Phase Four sequels.

Zack the boy twists facts and spins truth in his little MCU Phase comparison chart meme to further his agenda. He would have us believe in his meme chart that all the Phase Four movies failed (which they didn't) because they featured unfamiliar characters, which is a falsehood. For him, if any Phase Four movie failed critically or at the box office, it couldn't have had anything to do with rushed screenplays because of a crowded workload and release schedule or some other breakdown in the filmmaking process, but had everything to do with focusing on "unfamiliar characters." That's bs.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[Cat]

On 3/31/2023 at 6:10 AM, Bosco685 said:

 

That's exactly what I wanted to talk about. What. The. Hell. Those texts definitely say a lot. But not what he was hoping. They sound like they're coming from a textbook abused woman. She literally says it was her fault for reaching for his phone. I mean come on, what kind of insufficiently_thoughtful_person does his lawyer take us for? Are we seriously supposed to read that and go 'oh yeah, she admits she reached for his phone, she obviously deserved a beating.' 

Ludicrous. 

 

[Bosco685]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:35 PM, Cat said:

That's exactly what I wanted to talk about. What. The. Hell. Those texts definitely say a lot. But not what he was hoping. They sound like they're coming from a textbook abused woman. She literally says it was her fault for reaching for his phone. I mean come on, what kind of insufficiently_thoughtful_person does his lawyer take us for? Are we seriously supposed to read that and go 'oh yeah, she admits she reached for his phone, she obviously deserved a beating.' 

Ludicrous. 

 

That's why I am holding out judgment until we hear from a non-biased legal source.

But to me, it is leaning toward he was the clear aggressor, and the woman is doing the typical abused partner caving-in (my partner abused me because I was asking for it).