ANT-MAN & THE WASP QUANTUMANIA directed by Peyton Reed (2023) 11 11

[kimik]

Just to clarify here, is the debate that the Ant-Man movies are a higher form of artwork than Ant-Man in the comics? Will DIS ever allow something like this on the big screen? If not, case closed. (although one could argue that The Boys one-upped Marvel  )

Share

Edited March 31, 2023 by kimik

[TupennyConan]

That's a real page? Effing trash. 

[Cat]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:44 PM, TupennyConan said:

That's a real page? Effing trash. 

It's art you scum. 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:02 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

film is a higher art form than the comics.

On 3/30/2023 at 8:12 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

A completely different medium I would say. I will stop there.

Are they that different, though? Yes, one medium is experienced as a moving image with sound on a screen, the other is viewed on a page, but both could be seen as different forms of sequential visual art. If you've ever been to a comic book sequential art class (and I have), you might hear that a comic book page could almost be a storyboard page for a movie, as both movies and comic books tell a story primarily through visuals. IMO, cinema and comic books might actually be the two artistic mediums that have the most in common with each other.

Edited March 31, 2023 by @therealsilvermane

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/31/2023 at 1:27 AM, kimik said:

 

For example, this page could be a storyboard for a Hank-Jan love scene in an Ant-Man movie. It uses different camera angles and sequential action to tell a story, just like a movie.

[1Cool]

On 3/31/2023 at 1:27 AM, kimik said:

Just to clarify here, is the debate that the Ant-Man movies are a higher form of artwork than Ant-Man in the comics? Will DIS ever allow something like this on the big screen? If not, case closed. (although one could argue that The Boys one-upped Marvel  )

Share

Based on what I saw on this season of The Boys that could end very, very badly.

[kimik]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:44 AM, TupennyConan said:

That's a real page? Effing trash. 

Oh, maybe you are a Spider-Man/Gwen fan instead:

[TupennyConan]

Trash. 

[TupennyConan]

On 3/31/2023 at 10:37 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

but both

are trash today.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/30/2023 at 9:54 PM, Gatsby77 said:

Fair.

But - and this is my opinion here - I still disagree.

I would choose to reread:

• The Watchmen
• The Dark Knight Returns
• The Killing Joke
• Sandman (#s 10, 13, 18, 19, 30, 50, 52)
• Animal Man # 5
• 100 Bullets # 27
• Wonder Woman (vol. 2) # 20

and many more...

over watching Tokyo Story, Cinema Lights, and *many* "classic" movies.

Plus both film and comic books are considered pop art or low art.

As such, they have far more in common with each other than they do in comparison to the world's best oil paintings, wood cut prints, sculptures, cathedrals or architecture.

It's always been my contention that if Leonardo DaVinci were alive today, he'd choose filmmaking as his artistic medium of choice. If one were to cut off the past and forget everything that came before including known art history, film and music are the two art forms that dominate human society today.

Film combines all the arts, writing visual theatre music fashion, into one symphonic piece that can elevate the soul and speak to the human experience as much as anything else and moreso.

[drotto]

On 3/31/2023 at 2:10 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

It's always been my contention that if Leonardo DaVinci were alive today, he'd choose filmmaking as his artistic medium of choice. If one were to cut off the past and forget everything that came before including known art history, film and music are the two art forms that dominate human society today.

Film combines all the arts, writing visual theatre music fashion, into one symphonic piece that can elevate the soul and speak to the human experience as much as anything else and moreso.

If you honestly think that other art forms can't do all of this, I really pity you. Any concert I have been to has had 20X the energy of any movie theater I have every been in. We have art museums that attract millions of visitors every year.  People travel the world to witness ancient architecture and sights. 99% of movies are forgotten within one or two weeks. Companies have turned movies into content most are not art. Movies are product, and product is only relevant in the now. Consumed then forgotten. Not saying I do not enjoy movies, but they are disposable and usually products of their time, few have staying power or lasting cultural impact. Those that are made as art and not mass content, are rarely successful, and 99.999999% of people don't even realize they exist.  This is the reason the Oscars have become irrelevant.  This years winner may be a bit of an exception, but it will still be forgotten. 

[Bosco685]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:05 PM, drotto said:

If you honestly think that other art forms can't do all of this, I really pity you. Any concert I have been to has had 20X the energy of any movie theater I have every been in. We have art museums that attract millions of visitors every year.  People travel the world to witness ancient architecture and sights. 99% of movies are forgotten within one or two weeks. Companies have turned movies into content most are not art. Movies are product, and product is only relevant in the now. Consumed then forgotten. Not saying I do not enjoy movies, but they are disposable and usually products of their time, few have staying power or lasting cultural impact. Those that are made as art and not mass content, are rarely successful, and 99.999999% of people don't even realize they exist.  This is the reason the Oscars have become irrelevant.  This years winner may be a bit of an exception, but it will still be forgotten. 

DISCLAIMER: Although I have liked this post, in no way has this been applied as a form of harassment against a given individual but rather aligning with the rationale and logical considerations as part of this statement. With every post made, love and appreciation is applied consistently with this account's responses, no matter the insane factors baked into a specific statement.

[Bosco685]

 

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:05 PM, drotto said:

If you honestly think that other art forms can't do all of this, I really pity you. Any concert I have been to has had 20X the energy of any movie theater I have every been in. We have art museums that attract millions of visitors every year.  People travel the world to witness ancient architecture and sights. 99% of movies are forgotten within one or two weeks. Companies have turned movies into content most are not art. Movies are product, and product is only relevant in the now. Consumed then forgotten. Not saying I do not enjoy movies, but they are disposable and usually products of their time, few have staying power or lasting cultural impact. Those that are made as art and not mass content, are rarely successful, and 99.999999% of people don't even realize they exist.  This is the reason the Oscars have become irrelevant.  This years winner may be a bit of an exception, but it will still be forgotten. 

You might have missed the part of my post where I said human society TODAY is dominated by two mediums of art: cinema and music. I guess you could lump a Taylor Swift concert with 20X the energy of Chantal Akerman's film "Jeanne Dielman...", which is now considered by some to be the greatest film ever made, into that statement. I also believe I qualified my statement by saying I'm not talking about historic works of art sitting in a museum. Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling may be considered one of the great works of European art, but artists don't become legend these days by painting the walls and ceilings of Catholic Churches anymore. I'm talking about NOW. Art that is produced today and that changes the way we think and feel TODAY. Yes, I know all sorts of art can do this, even comic books. But here's a question: where are the Winslow Homers (painting) and the John Singer Sargents(painting) and the William Shakespeares(theater) of today? Answer: they're making movies.

[Bosco685]

This thread is Hoo approved!

[CGC Mike]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:14 PM, Bosco685 said:

DISCLAIMER: Although I have liked this post, in no way has this been applied as a form of harassment against a given individual but rather aligning with the rationale and logical considerations as part of this statement. With every post made, love and appreciation is applied consistently with this account's responses, no matter the insane factors baked into a specific statement.

[drotto]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:25 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

You might have missed the part of my post where I said human society TODAY is dominated by two mediums of art: cinema and music. I guess you could lump a Taylor Swift concert with 20X the energy of Chantal Akerman's film "Jeanne Dielman...", which is now considered by some to be the greatest film ever made, into that statement. I also believe I qualified my statement by saying I'm not talking about historic works of art sitting in a museum. Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling may be considered one of the great works of European art, but artists don't become legend these days by painting the walls and ceilings of Catholic Churches anymore. I'm talking about NOW. Art that is produced today and that changes the way we think and feel TODAY. Yes, I know all sorts of art can do this, even comic books. But here's a question: where are the Winslow Homers (painting) and the John Singer Sargents(painting) and the William Shakespeares(theater) of today? Answer: they're making movies.

It is obvious you have a love for movies, and it is your thing.  That also means you likely have limited knowledge of the current art world, current writers, etc. There are prominent people and even potential legends being created in all media, but you are not aware of them, because it is not an area of interest for you. That's fine and normal, and I do not have great knowledge in many of those areas either. I guarantee my wife can name far more writers, or singers, than movie directors, or even actors/actresses.  It is all a matter of perspective and your personal knowledge, and your tastes.  I can name you 100's of bands from the 60's to about 2010, but have absolutely no clue about anyone form the last 5 years, but I bet my kids friends can name plenty. Music, movies, and TV are what is most profitable, so that is what corporations push and invest in, it does not make them more important or more worthy art.  Also do to the massive commercial nature of those mediums, I would argue they are the most manufactured, and fake, because corporations sure not dictate culture (yes, I think they have far too much power in that respect). Because of the very commercial and the in the now nature of these commercial products, there long term impact is likely very limited. They are just more prominent, that does not mean they are more culturally relevant. I think long term pop movies have very little lasting cultural impact, with a few notable exceptions.

 

I would also argue that the day of the truly legendary director is passing.  I can name Copula, Spielberg, Lucas, Wells, Hughes, Hitchcock even someone like Zemeckis, They are household names.  Go ask the average person (not comic movie people like us) to name one Marvel director, and a bet 95% can't. In fact an accusation surfaced today against Alonso by directors saying she claimed the directors of MCU films do not deserve credit, because they are not really doing the directing. Meaning MCU films are manufactured product made by committee, not art. I love much of it, but certainly not fine art.

 

https://screenrant.com/marvel-directors-really-direct-mcu-movies/

Edited April 1, 2023 by drotto

[Bosco685]

On 3/31/2023 at 8:24 PM, CGC Mike said:

Told ya I appreciate your services.

[Mr Sneeze]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:25 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

You might have missed the part of my post where I said human society TODAY is dominated by two mediums of art: cinema and music. I guess you could lump a Taylor Swift concert with 20X the energy of Chantal Akerman's film "Jeanne Dielman...", which is now considered by some to be the greatest film ever made, into that statement. I also believe I qualified my statement by saying I'm not talking about historic works of art sitting in a museum. Michaelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling may be considered one of the great works of European art, but artists don't become legend these days by painting the walls and ceilings of Catholic Churches anymore. I'm talking about NOW. Art that is produced today and that changes the way we think and feel TODAY. Yes, I know all sorts of art can do this, even comic books. But here's a question: where are the Winslow Homers (painting) and the John Singer Sargents(painting) and the William Shakespeares(theater) of today? Answer: they're making movies.

All you really have to say is, imho.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 3/31/2023 at 11:10 PM, Mr Sneeze said:

All you really have to say is, imho.

IMHO, the fact that cinema is a higher art form than a comic book is a fact.