Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBO Max (3/18/21) 4 4

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 4:11 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Um... What...? How is Darkseid an afterthought? He's not some sort of post-credit feature. He was literally Earth's first contact with Apokolips.

Hate to break it to you, but most of the Fourth World stuff is ignored in modern storytelling, and the DCEU is based off of New 52, so... Hey, everyone! Big surprise here! A movie with gods among us, like Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, and Cyborg relied heavily on VFX!

What political commentary was in ZSJL after all?

Kind of jumped the gun there, son.

[Bosco685]

On 3/4/2022 at 8:51 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

I wasn't referring to the comics, I was referring to the film not including the character, to begin with. They didn't strategically craft Darkseid into film continuity--as Marvel did with Thanos; instead, they said "oh, hey! let's add Darkseid---we kind of forgot that part." That's what I was saying; that's what I meant by afterthought. I know who Darkseid is and I'm familiar with the source material. 

You may not be as aware of DC film history as you are with other franchises or studios.

Snyder only added an additional 5-8 minutes of new footage. The rest had been shot already, and needed to be finished requiring the $70M.

Ray Porter, the voice actor for Darkseid, came out a few years ago noting he had completed scenes that were cut from the 2017 film. So those were never new. It was in the original cut.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/4/2022 at 8:42 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

They re-released the film with Darkseid; that's my point. It's a pivotal character and they didn't originally plan the movie to include the character--understand? They added him after the fact. I'm talking about the FILM, my friend. And I said political climate, not commentary, you might need an eye exam. 

Excuse you, but do you understand that ZSJL is the original movie...?

In order for the "political climate" to be relevant at all, there must be political commentary. So, where was it?

Edited March 4, 2022 by theCapraAegagrus

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:09 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

Kind of jumped the gun there, son.

Are you admitting that you're wrong?

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 6:15 AM, Bosco685 said:

You may not be as aware of DC film history as you are with other franchises or studios.

Snyder only added an additional 5-8 minutes of new footage. The rest had been shot already, and needed to be finished requiring the $70M.

Ray Porter, the voice actor for Darkseid, came out a few years ago noting he had completed scenes that were cut from the 2017 film. So those were never new. It was in the original cut.

This still doesn't take away from the fact that the film--when originally released--did not include Darkseid. The impact of the character and what it meant for the franchise in the future was tainted.

It's like a surprise birthday party you're throwing for someone, and they walk in and you yell surprise--only their significant other wasn't present for the moment. So you plan another surprise the next day--with their significant other there. Only this time their expression is less excited and it doesn't really hold the same meaning. Horrible example, I know. But hopefully amusing.  

I can only assume that you're a serious DC fan, so I understand if what I'm saying might be upsetting. But you can't deny things were not handled very well at WB. 

[Bosco685]

WB Studios wouldn't even allow Ray Porter to publicly state he had contributed to the voice of Darkseid in the 2017 film until 2020.

Justice League Snyder Cut's Darkseid Actor Confirmed (2020)

Quote

One of the most talked-about elements of the Snyder Cut has been the prospective appearance of Darkseid in the film. In the theatrical cut of Justice League, the main villain, Steppenwolf, mentions the name of the iconic DC conqueror, but that's it. Now, actor Ray Porter, who had long been rumored to be playing Darkseid, took to Twitter to confirm his involvement with Justice League, and his imminent return in Zack Snyder's Director's Cut.

That said, and because I’ve been given permission...

Hi, I’m Ray. I played Darkseid in Zack Snyder’s “Justice League”.
There. It’s out now.

— Ray Porter (@Ray__Porter) May 22, 2020

Originally, Darkseid was supposed to make several appearances in Justice League, including in the flashback to the epic battle for the Mother Boxes, but all trace of his presence was removed from the theatrical cut, save for the orphaned reference from Steppenwolf. Now, with Zack Snyder finally getting to see his original vision carried through, Darkseid will finally get to make his presence known to the heroes of Earth.

 

[Bosco685]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:30 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

This still doesn't take away from the fact that the film--when originally released--did not include Darkseid. The impact of the character and what it meant for the franchise in the future was tainted.

It's like a surprise birthday party you're throwing for someone, and they walk in and you yell surprise--only their significant other wasn't present for the moment. So you plan another surprise the next day--with their significant other there. Only this time their expression is less excited and it doesn't really hold the same meaning. Horrible example, I know. But hopefully amusing.  

I can only assume that you're a serious DC fan, so I understand if what I'm saying might be upsetting. But you can't deny things were not handled very well at WB. 

So if someone is a Marvel and DC fan then they are here just to get upset - only 'true' Marvel fans get it??

Come on, man. You are pretty much confirming "MAKE MINE MARVEL" and may be allowing that blinder to focus more on how to detract from DC. There's no healthy mindset in that.

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 6:17 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Are you admitting that you're wrong?

You do realize I was speaking on three separate topics in my original post? Ha-ha! 

Are you the contrarian of this forum? I have neither the time nor inclination to waste any further effort on this exchange. The world is full of people who will disagree with you; I'm willing to agree to disagree; I chose to lead a cancer-free life. 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:37 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

I have neither the time nor inclination to waste any further effort on this exchange. The world is full of people who will disagree with you; I'm willing to agree to disagree; I chose to lead a cancer-free life. 

There's nothing to agree on, you're flat-out wrong.

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 6:33 AM, Bosco685 said:

So if someone is a Marvel and DC fan then they are here just to get upset - only 'true' Marvel fans get it??

Come on, man. You are pretty much confirming "MAKE MINE MARVEL" and may be allowing that blinder to focus more on how to detract from DC. There's no healthy mindset in that.

I like DC and Marvel equally; I grew up watching Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League, Superman: The Animated Series, and Justice League: Unlimited. But I gravitated towards Marvel movies after Batman (1989). My comic book collection is a mixed bag, with lots of Marvel and DC. As far as modern DC and Marvel films go, I just feel Marvel is more organized. Are they perfect? No. But they have an overall better track record. 

[Bosco685]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:44 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

I like DC and Marvel equally; I grew up watching Batman: The Animated Series, Justice League, Superman: The Animated Series, and Justice League: Unlimited. But I gravitated towards Marvel movies after Batman (1989). My comic book collection is a mixed bag, with lots of Marvel and DC. As far as modern DC and Marvel films go, I just feel Marvel is more organized. Are they perfect? No. But they have an overall better track record. 

It does have a better track record. To include once The Incredible Hulk bombed at the box office as the second MCU film the Marvel Studios leadership team didn't rush off to retool everything out of desperation. They stayed the course.

Meanwhile, despite horrible WB Studios portfolio handling, DC films and TV shows still stand out more often than not. And assuming everything must be plugged into a connected world is an approach - but not the only approach. If the DC executives had their way to overrule WB Studios it would clearly hit on the DC Multiverse like Jim Lee was able to pull off in the CW Crisis crossover with Ezra Miller appearing. That was his brainchild.

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 6:50 AM, Bosco685 said:

It does have a better track record. To include once The Incredible Hulk bombed at the box office as the second MCU film the Marvel Studios leadership team didn't rush off to retool everything out of desperation. They stayed the course.

Meanwhile, despite horrible WB Studios portfolio handling, DC films and TV shows still stand out more often than not. And assuming everything must be plugged into a connected world is an approach - but not the only approach. If the DC executives had their way to overrule WB Studios it would clearly hit on the DC Multiverse like Jim Lee was able to pull off in the CW Crisis crossover with Ezra Miller appearing. That was his brainchild.

Agreed. 

I appreciate your willingness to discuss things civilly. 

As far as DC films go, I wish they'd take things a little more seriously at WB. These are incredible storylines they have to work with and they're not putting people who are passionate about comics or familiar with characters in charge of making the film.  

[Bosco685]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:57 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

Agreed. 

I appreciate your willingness to discuss things civilly. 

As far as DC films go, I wish they'd take things a little more seriously at WB. These are incredible storylines they have to work with and they're not putting people who are passionate about comics or familiar with characters in charge of making the film.  

It's part of the creative barriers Zaslov supposedly is going to target addressing.

WB Studios has had so many 'money men' over the years latch on to its films they get themselves involved in anything they can, assuming they know better. In the Discovery-Warner Bros. thread there is an article that touches on this how ingrained in the WB Studios creative process they are. Which is why when Man of Steel was being filmed Christopher Nolan banned Jon Peters (one of those know-it-alls) from even visiting the set.

That needs to change, and allow the creators more control. Otherwise, they get more of the same tampering too frequently.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:57 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

These are incredible storylines they have to work with and they're not putting people who are passionate about comics or familiar with characters in charge of making the film.  

Zack Snyder, Patty Jenkins, James Wan, and James Gunn say, "hi".

[▫️]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:37 PM, Frank Castle 74 said:

I have neither the time nor inclination to waste any further effort on this exchange.

But do you have the time or inclination to explain yourself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of freedom that you provide and then questions the manner in which you provide it?

[▫️]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:57 PM, Frank Castle 74 said:

Agreed. 

I appreciate your willingness to discuss things civilly. 

As far as DC films go, I wish they'd take things a little more seriously at WB. These are incredible storylines they have to work with and they're not putting people who are passionate about comics or familiar with characters in charge of making the film.  

I think DC has knocked it out of the park in the past, they just haven’t been able to create a shared universe. Their mistake was trying to create something similar to what Marvel did when they were doing fine without that aesthetic. They should focus on taking risks and trying more stand-alone films that don’t come from the mold. 

[Frank Castle 74]

It was the Star Wars bug.

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Frank Castle 74

[Frank Castle 74]

Were they planning to include Darkseid since they first began production on the first Wonder Woman movie?

[▫️]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:36 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

Were they planning to include Darkseid since they first began production on the first Wonder Woman movie?

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with Darkseid. You first stated he was added as an afterthought when he was always part of the original movie that got butchered by Whedon after Snyder left the project due to his child’s death. But we now know he was there in the original cut in 2017. As for Darkseid being planned since the first Wonder Woman, it stands to reason that since Snyder produced Wonder Woman which was released in 2017, then yes, Darkseid was still part of the plan to appear in JL.  

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:02 PM, ▫️ said:

I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with Darkseid. You first stated he was added as an afterthought when he was always part of the original movie that got butchered by Whedon after Snyder left the project due to his child’s death. But we now know he was there in the original cut in 2017. As for Darkseid being planned since the first Wonder Woman, it stands to reason that since Snyder produced Wonder Woman which was released in 2017, then yes, Darkseid was still part of the plan to appear in JL.  

There is no point I'm trying to make, I'm asking a legitimate question. Mentioning a child's death to make me seem ridiculous for asking is outrageous and exploitative. 

The film was first released WITHOUT DARKSEID. Then FOUR YEARS LATER (long after average moviegoers had lost interest in the film) they re-released Snyder's cut of the film. The initial excitement and interest around the film had passed, and THEN after four years, they RE-RELEASED it AGAIN with Darkseid. New fans--unfamiliar with the comics--would see this as a gimmick/money-grab or possibly a rip-off of the Thanos character--even though people who are familiar with the comics know this isn't true. You need the ability to view things from the lens of someone unfamiliar with comics. 

You do understand when you wait four years and then release something again--even if you include new or compelling components to the story--it isn't going to produce the same effect as if it were being seen or released for the first time? What I'm explaining is just basic logic at this point. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Frank Castle 74