Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBO Max (3/18/21) 4 4

[Frank Castle 74]

Put a fork in me already. 

[Bosco685]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:47 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

There is no point I'm trying to make, I'm asking a legitimate question. Mentioning a child's death to make me seem ridiculous for asking is outrageous and exploitative. 

The film was first released WITHOUT DARKSEID. Then FOUR YEARS LATER (long after average moviegoers had lost interest in the film) they re-released Snyder's cut of the film. The initial excitement and interest around the film had passed, and THEN after four years, they RE-RELEASED it AGAIN with Darkseid. New fans--unfamiliar with the comics--would see this as a gimmick/money-grab or possibly a rip-off of the Thanos character--even though people who are familiar with the comics know this isn't true. You need the ability to view things from the lens of someone unfamiliar with comics. 

You do understand when you wait four years and then release something again--even if you include new or compelling components to the story--it isn't going to produce the same effect as if it were being seen or released for the first time? What I'm explaining is just basic logic at this point. 

I think some of reaction you experienced is due to an MCU fanatic that for the longest time wasted more of his time bashing DC films and proclaiming MCU films were if not perfect then close to it. Of course, then he saw Black Widow. 🤯

But the fixation on Darkseid being an afterthought may be due to (and I politely noted this before) your lack of DC films awareness. Especially since even in 2017 Kevin Smith did a special video episode talking about all the scenes Joss Whedon removed from JL and a member of the audience who had seen it confirmed Darkseid was in her test screening.

Now that general audiences finally saw the planned cut (Snyder Cut) there was a very positive response. To include the film achieving a FRESH critic rating on Rotten Tomatoes from the same folks that trashed the 2017 film.

That says a lot for how much the 'newer cut' made a difference.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Bosco685

[Jesse-Lee]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:30 AM, ▫️ said:

But do you have the time or inclination to explain yourself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of freedom that you provide and then questions the manner in which you provide it?

"I'd rather you just say thank you, and go on your way..."

Seriously though, I know I'm inserting myself into an ongoing argument here, but I think many people would agree that the MCU is an organized effort that stays true to its source material as a service to long-time fans, while drawing in new fans through really good movies that can stand alone or be watched as an integrated universe. DCEU; not so much. From a comics standpoint, I've always been a DC guy. From a movie standpoint, they can't hold a candle to the MCU. The characters and stories in the MCU seem like they were ripped right from the pages of comics. The characters and stories in the DCEU are a muddled mess.

Robert Downey Jr. has been Iron Man since 2008, and he absolutely embodies the character. We've had three different big-screen Batmans in that same time-frame. The DCEU often strays much further from its source material - characters, settings, etc. - than the MCU. You can argue that you don't need to re-hash stories or character types, or even to have an interconnected universe; but one look at the success of the MCU show that it's what many fans want.

The ZSJL is just ok. Ezra Miller is a crappy Flash. Henry Cavill is a mediocre Superman. Who is the DCEU Batman going forward? Gal Gadot is an amazing Wonder Woman, but 1984 was a mess. Momoa is fine as Aquaman I guess. Joker and The Batman were really good movies, but they're standalone glimpses into the DC Universe. Same with Suicide Squad (the recent one obviously) and Peacemaker. Birds of Prey had so much potential - Margot Robbie is an awesome Harley, and I loved Rosie Perez as Montoya - but they ruined Cassandra Cain and ruined/wasted Black Mask. The TV shows are a hot mess compared to the Marvel shows. It's frustrating as a DC fan. @Frank Castle 74 hit the nail on the head with this:

On 3/4/2022 at 8:57 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

As far as DC films go, I wish they'd take things a little more seriously at WB. These are incredible storylines they have to work with and they're not putting people who are passionate about comics or familiar with characters in charge of making the film.  

 

[Frank Castle 74]

X-Men: Dark Phoenix, Black Widow, Thor: The Dark World, and Incredible Hulk are all are severely lacking; I've never praised any of these films or recommended them. In fact, I made it a point to discourage others from seeing them. 

I agree that adding Darkseid was positive (it sets things up for future films), but given the circumstances surrounding the release of Snyder's cut, it wasn't as impactful as it could have been if everything had gone accordingly--as you mention. This was the main point that I was trying to make. Criticism of various Marvel and DC films shouldn't be controversial.   

Edited March 5, 2022 by Frank Castle 74

[Frank Castle 74]

On 3/4/2022 at 11:07 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

"I'd rather you just say thank you, and go on your way..."

Seriously though, I know I'm inserting myself into an ongoing argument here, but I think many people would agree that the MCU is an organized effort that stays true to its source material as a service to long-time fans, while drawing in new fans through really good movies that can stand alone or be watched as an integrated universe. DCEU; not so much. From a comics standpoint, I've always been a DC guy. From a movie standpoint, they can't hold a candle to the MCU. The characters and stories in the MCU seem like they were ripped right from the pages of comics. The characters and stories in the DCEU are a muddled mess.

Robert Downey Jr. has been Iron Man since 2008, and he absolutely embodies the character. We've had three different big-screen Batmans in that same time-frame. The DCEU often strays much further from its source material - characters, settings, etc. - than the MCU. You can argue that you don't need to re-hash stories or character types, or even to have an interconnected universe; but one look at the success of the MCU show that it's what many fans want.

The ZSJL is just ok. Ezra Miller is a crappy Flash. Henry Cavill is a mediocre Superman. Who is the DCEU Batman going forward? Gal Gadot is an amazing Wonder Woman, but 1984 was a mess. Momoa is fine as Aquaman I guess. Joker and The Batman were really good movies, but they're standalone glimpses into the DC Universe. Same with Suicide Squad (the recent one obviously) and Peacemaker. Birds of Prey had so much potential - Margot Robbie is an awesome Harley, and I loved Rosie Perez as Montoya - but they ruined Cassandra Cain and ruined/wasted Black Mask. The TV shows are a hot mess compared to the Marvel shows. It's frustrating as a DC fan. @Frank Castle 74 hit the nail on the head with this:

 

Give this man a cigar!

[▫️]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:47 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

There is no point I'm trying to make, I'm asking a legitimate question. Mentioning a child's death to make me seem ridiculous for asking is outrageous and exploitative. 

The film was first released WITHOUT DARKSEID. Then FOUR YEARS LATER (long after average moviegoers had lost interest in the film) they re-released Snyder's cut of the film. The initial excitement and interest around the film had passed, and THEN after four years, they RE-RELEASED it AGAIN with Darkseid. New fans--unfamiliar with the comics--would see this as a gimmick/money-grab or possibly a rip-off of the Thanos character--even though people who are familiar with the comics know this isn't true. You need the ability to view things from the lens of someone unfamiliar with comics. 

You do understand when you wait four years and then release something again--even if you include new or compelling components to the story--it isn't going to produce the same effect as if it were being seen or released for the first time? What I'm explaining is just basic logic at this point. 

It wasn’t exploitative at all. I don’t know you and don’t know if you were aware of Snyder‘s reasons for leaving the project. You are being defensive for no reason. I wanted to explain there was good reason to abandon that project. He finally returned to it to release the original version. Anyway, I wasn’t excited for the Snyder Cut as I stated before. I thought it would be similar to the theatrical release by Whedon. I had no idea it was a different movie. I didn’t enjoy BvS and did not enjoy the theatrical version of JL so I wasn’t originally pumped for the Snyder Cut. But I was interested. After seeing it, I thought it was absolutely incredible. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by ▫️

[Bosco685]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:07 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

The DCEU often strays much further from its source material - characters, settings, etc. - than the MCU. 

I have to disagree on a point.

Thanos' motivation to attract Death's love leading to his actions in Infinity Gauntlet and the altruistic motivation Marvel Studios used instead to attract more kids and the general audience seems like quite the long stretch.

The DC vs. Marvel debates can involve such perception bias. But also how much we convince ourselves of a thing. Like DC movie directors never get the characters. Yet you get creators like Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, Patty Jenkins, James Wan or Todd Phillips that immerse themselves in these worlds. And now you have Matt Reeves.

[Bosco685]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:20 AM, Frank Castle 74 said:

Give this man a cigar!

I have a feeling due to the initial response from some you may be falling into the mental trap of spiteful posting as a "oh yeah" ism.

It's clear you are not a fan of the movie and most probably DC films. No matter any statement to the contrary. Which at times can be a cover for some as they state 'big DC fan' and then proceed to trash the company, films and TV shows. What worthwhile value does that bring other than disruptive and possible distasteful discussions that are really studio wars?

You clearly were not aware of the film history. That's okay. Turning it into an MCU vs. DC debate doesn't lead to a decent conversation. It's the opposite of this.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:00 AM, Bosco685 said:

Thanos' motivation to attract Death's love leading to his actions in Infinity Gauntlet and the altruistic motivation Marvel Studios used instead to attract more kids and the general audience seems like quite the long stretch.

That's a fair point. When I said DC strays further from the source material, I had in mind characters (and even settings) more than story. I mean, we've had multiple iterations of most of the fan-favorite DC characters in the same time frame as the MCU has existed with its (mostly) consistent characterization and world building, using (mostly) actors who look and act very closely to the source material for the characters. Then with DC, you have characters like Cassandra Cain (I know she's not really a mainstream character, but I love the Cain Batgirl/Orphan) - a bad-a** in the comics who they made a doofy pickpocket in Birds of Prey; Flash, who, I'm sorry, but Ezra Miller is not Barry Allen. I could see him as Impulse maybe, but whatever. When they get it right, it's so good - I think Kravitz's Catwoman is the best version of that character I've ever seen in live-action - but when they get it wrong, it's glaring.

I'm not saying that doing it the way Marvel did is the be-all-end-all, but their way does make fans become more invested across the sum of the movies and shows - because even if you have somewhat of a flop, you still know that there's opportunity for the character you like to show up elsewhere.

For example, Black Widow was not a great movie, but Florence Pugh as Yelena was great, and then they used her in Hawkeye, and she'll be in future stuff.

On 3/5/2022 at 5:00 AM, Bosco685 said:

Yet you get creators like Christopher Nolan, Zack Snyder, Patty Jenkins, James Wan or Todd Phillips that immerse themselves in these worlds. And now you have Matt Reeves.

The Nolan Batman movies are still the top of my list for comic movies (especially The Dark Knight). The first Wonder Woman was outstanding; 1984 was awful. The Aquaman movies were fine but forgettable. I loved the Joker movie (just watched it again last night actually), and I loved the new Batman movie as well. But the problem I have with it is that everything starts over each time - they're not building anything, it just feels like throwing things at the wall to see what sticks and then trying to capitalize. 

Like, if they decided The Batman would be a jumping-off point going forward, that Pattinson is the new Batman, Wright is the new Gordon, etc. - and then they built on that, that'd be great. But you have a Batgirl movie coming out this year that has yet another Jim Gordon, a new Batgirl who is not the Barbara Gordon from Titans, a Batman who isn't Pattinson or even Bat-fleck or Glen (Bruce Wayne in Titans) - although it is a fan-favorite Batman for sure. But each entry into the DCEU is basically a stand-alone. It's hard to get invested in them as a fan, especially when you have movies like The Batman, Suicide Squad, Joker that are outstanding, but then you have Birds of Prey, BvS, 1984 that are just not good.

The ZSJL doesn't do it for me, mostly because, what's the point? There will likely just be another Batman, another Joker, another whoever coming along on the next project anyway.

They may be trying to pull everything together by claiming it's a multiverse thing, and I could get behind that if it felt like they actually had a plan and a real vision for it, but as it stands it feels sloppy to me.

[Bosco685]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:50 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

I'm not saying that doing it the way Marvel did is the be-all-end-all, but their way does make fans become more invested across the sum of the movies and shows - because even if you have somewhat of a flop, you still know that there's opportunity for the character you like to show up elsewhere.

For example, Black Widow was not a great movie, but Florence Pugh as Yelena was great, and then they used her in Hawkeye, and she'll be in future stuff.

The Nolan Batman movies are still the top of my list for comic movies (especially The Dark Knight). The first Wonder Woman was outstanding; 1984 was awful. The Aquaman movies were fine but forgettable. I loved the Joker movie (just watched it again last night actually), and I loved the new Batman movie as well. But the problem I have with it is that everything starts over each time - they're not building anything, it just feels like throwing things at the wall to see what sticks and then trying to capitalize. 

Like, if they decided The Batman would be a jumping-off point going forward, that Pattinson is the new Batman, Wright is the new Gordon, etc. - and then they built on that, that'd be great. But you have a Batgirl movie coming out this year that has yet another Jim Gordon, a new Batgirl who is not the Barbara Gordon from Titans, a Batman who isn't Pattinson or even Bat-fleck or Glen (Bruce Wayne in Titans) - although it is a fan-favorite Batman for sure. But each entry into the DCEU is basically a stand-alone. It's hard to get invested in them as a fan, especially when you have movies like The Batman, Suicide Squad, Joker that are outstanding, but then you have Birds of Prey, BvS, 1984 that are just not good.

The ZSJL doesn't do it for me, mostly because, what's the point? There will likely just be another Batman, another Joker, another whoever coming along on the next project anyway.

They may be trying to pull everything together by claiming it's a multiverse thing, and I could get behind that if it felt like they actually had a plan and a real vision for it, but as it stands it feels sloppy to me.

WB Studios biggest problem is weak marketing messaging to convey what its DC properties are about. That is where Disney/Marvel Studios has also shined in making it sound like everthing was always planned out (even when it wasn't) and the constant connected universe. If the DC Comics team had their way (Jim Lee especially since he hit on this at the 2021 DC Fandome) it is all about the DC Multiverse where characters and stories are not forced to drive a constant connected message even to its detriment. Some may never admit this, but the MCU ever-connected universe is a strength and an annoyance at times. To include how it has to constantly pepper Easter Eggs for future films in the current film you are watching which may then distract you from THE MOVIE you are trying to enjoy.

But again with some of the points you are making (which I respect), you are unconsciously trying to make the DC film universe follow the MCU model because that is what worked for you. I don't want that across the board. If something can stand on its own legs like the Matt Reeves Batmanverse good - leave all those other movies out of these stories so it avoids creative distractions and hampering those in-world stories. Know what I mean?

Zack Snyder's Justice League didn't do it for you - totally respect that. Meanwhile it worked for many yet WB execs to avoid embarrassment made up their mind in advance no more SnyderVerse films. That Vanity Fair article coming out on the morning of the 5th day of its release with all those details made it clear Anne Sarnoff and team had this planned out. That extensive inteview and direction-setting didn't happen overnight. It was a purposeful endgame.

But the DC Universe does not need to be connecting everything. Keep that over with the MCU as it has worked wonderfully for that studio. If some of the same approach occurs with the DC films (The Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Peacemaker are all tied to the SnyderVerse where you recognized this or not), so be it. But many do not need a forced mold to match the MCU approach. They just want solid stories in-film and TV show.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, Bosco685 said:

WB Studios biggest problem is weak marketing messaging to convey what its DC properties are about.

I 100% agree with this - Disney/Marvel does do a much better job at marketing.

On 3/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, Bosco685 said:

But again with some of the points you are making (which I respect), you are unconsciously trying to make the DC film universe follow the MCU model because that is what worked for you. I don't want that across the board. If something can stand on its own legs like the Matt Reeves Batmanverse good - leave all those other movies out of these stories so it avoids creative distractions and hampering those in-world stories. Know what I mean?

On 3/5/2022 at 1:27 PM, Bosco685 said:

But the DC Universe does not need to be connecting everything. Keep that over with the MCU as it has worked wonderfully for that studio. If some of the same approach occurs with the DC films (The Flash, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Peacemaker are all tied to the SnyderVerse where you recognized this or not), so be it. But many do not need a forced mold to match the MCU approach. They just want solid stories in-film and TV show.

These are the points where we're in disagreement. Not that I'm right and you're wrong (or vice versa) by any means; but that I absolutely do want the DC film universe to follow a semblance of the MCU model, and you don't - and that's totally fine. There are plenty of DC movies I really like, and if they make more movies along those lines or in those universes, I'll continue to go see them. But for me, I'll always feel like the DCEU as a whole is flawed because of that. It just comes down to a difference in what style we like. I guess I do wish that if they're not going the connected route, then I wish they wouldn't try to do it at all - like shoehorning the Justice League appearance into Peacemaker. Again, just down to preference.

[Bosco685]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:39 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

These are the points where we're in disagreement. Not that I'm right and you're wrong (or vice versa) by any means; but that I absolutely do want the DC film universe to follow a semblance of the MCU model, and you don't - and that's totally fine. There are plenty of DC movies I really like, and if they make more movies along those lines or in those universes, I'll continue to go see them. But for me, I'll always feel like the DCEU as a whole is flawed because of that. It just comes down to a difference in what style we like. I guess I do wish that if they're not going the connected route, then I wish they wouldn't try to do it at all - like shoehorning the Justice League appearance into Peacemaker. Again, just down to preference.

A fair point. But one some forget comes down to personal opinions and creative desires rather than 'rightness'.

Some want a connected comic book universe with their movies. Others just want solid standalone stories. And then there is something in the middle (connections to other characters when it brings relevant value). Its just nice when we get a mixture of each experience depending on a given studio or production. It could be quite boring if everyone was using the same creative model every time.

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/5/2022 at 2:07 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

Seriously though, I know I'm inserting myself into an ongoing argument here, but I think many people would agree that the MCU is an organized effort that stays true to its source material as a service to long-time fans, while drawing in new fans through really good movies that can stand alone or be watched as an integrated universe. DCEU; not so much. From a comics standpoint, I've always been a DC guy. From a movie standpoint, they can't hold a candle to the MCU. The characters and stories in the MCU seem like they were ripped right from the pages of comics. The characters and stories in the DCEU are a muddled mess.

Robert Downey Jr. has been Iron Man since 2008, and he absolutely embodies the character. We've had three different big-screen Batmans in that same time-frame. The DCEU often strays much further from its source material - characters, settings, etc. - than the MCU. You can argue that you don't need to re-hash stories or character types, or even to have an interconnected universe; but one look at the success of the MCU show that it's what many fans want.

The ZSJL is just ok. Ezra Miller is a crappy Flash. Henry Cavill is a mediocre Superman. Who is the DCEU Batman going forward? Gal Gadot is an amazing Wonder Woman, but 1984 was a mess. Momoa is fine as Aquaman I guess. Joker and The Batman were really good movies, but they're standalone glimpses into the DC Universe. Same with Suicide Squad (the recent one obviously) and Peacemaker. Birds of Prey had so much potential - Margot Robbie is an awesome Harley, and I loved Rosie Perez as Montoya - but they ruined Cassandra Cain and ruined/wasted Black Mask. The TV shows are a hot mess compared to the Marvel shows. It's frustrating as a DC fan. @Frank Castle 74 hit the nail on the head with this:

You're joking, right...? There is no way that you can consider this to be true.

That's pure delusion.

[Bosco685]

Variety did an analysis of most impactful 2021 streaming shows.

Ray Fisher Reacts to Zack Snyder’s Justice League HBO Max Success

Quote

Data compiled by analytics company Diesel Labs put Zack Snyder's Justice League in the number one spot for audience engagement with original releases on HBO Max in 2021. In light of this, Fisher took to his Instagram page to praise the achievement with a caption that seemingly jabs at those who in the past questioned the existence of the director's cut, affectionately referred to as the Snyder Cut by fans.

 

[Bosco685]

NOW all of a suddent Toby Emmerich is about creative control allowed to movie runners.

[William-James88]

Surprise sur-mudafakan-prise

[theCapraAegagrus]

Too bad they didn't have a director-driven past. Oh well.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 3/7/2022 at 5:18 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

You're joking, right...? There is no way that you can consider this to be true.

That's pure delusion.

I expanded on all this in subsequent posts, so I won't rehash it all here (they're right above) - but in short, yes, I stand by all of this. I'll rehash a small amount in response to what you bolded.

On 3/7/2022 at 5:18 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

I think many people would agree that the MCU is an organized effort that stays true to its source material as a service to long-time fans...

The characters and stories in the MCU seem like they were ripped right from the pages of comics.

The DCEU often strays much further from its source material - characters, settings, etc. - than the MCU.

I stated above that for me personally, I'd much rather have DC follow the marvel model of interconnected movies and shows to create an organized universe - so yeah, I'd say that I find the MCU to be a much more organized effort. Marvel has also focused on casting choices and storylines that, for the most part, more closely reflect the source material compared to DC.

On 3/7/2022 at 5:18 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Henry Cavill is a mediocre Superman.

Yes, this is my opinion. Actually, I find Superman to be a less compelling character overall than many other superheroes. But yeah, not a Cavill fan. For what it's worth, Christopher Reeve is my favorite Superman.

On 3/7/2022 at 5:18 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

The TV shows are a hot mess compared to the Marvel shows

Peacemaker is the first DC show that, for me, was must-see the moment each episode dropped. When it came to the Marvel shows, they were almost all that way for me. Again, I'd personally be way more invested in the DC shows if DC had a cohesive universe, instead of a different Bruce Wayne, Barbara Gordon, Jim Gordon, etc. in Titans, then other different ones in The Batman, then yet more different ones in the upcoming Batgirl and so on.

 

At the end of the day, here's what I said to Bosco above about the DCEU/MCU stuff - in a nutshell, it comes down to personal opinion and preference; to each their own:

On 3/5/2022 at 9:39 PM, Jesse-Lee said:

I absolutely do want the DC film universe to follow a semblance of the MCU model, and you don't - and that's totally fine. There are plenty of DC movies I really like, and if they make more movies along those lines or in those universes, I'll continue to go see them. But for me, I'll always feel like the DCEU as a whole is flawed because of that. It just comes down to a difference in what style we like.

 

[theCapraAegagrus]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:50 AM, Jesse-Lee said:

I expanded on all this in subsequent posts, so I won't rehash it all here (they're right above) - but in short, yes, I stand by all of this. I'll rehash a small amount in response to what you bolded.

I stated above that for me personally, I'd much rather have DC follow the marvel model of interconnected movies and shows to create an organized universe - so yeah, I'd say that I find the MCU to be a much more organized effort. Marvel has also focused on casting choices and storylines that, for the most part, more closely reflect the source material compared to DC.

Okay, but you're wrong. MCU characters and stories are far cries from the source material. It looks even worse if you really want to compare Marvel's faithfulness to DC's.

Interconnected or organized does not mean faithful, at all. Which characters are faithful? Iron Man? Doctor Strange? Beyond that, they're not that close to their comic counterparts. The DCEU characters, with the exception of The Flash, are quite close to the New 52 that they're adapted from (however, Batman being from Miller's character).

Cavill's Superman is closer to comic book Superman than any MCU character to their own comic counterpart, with the possible exceptions of Tony Stark and Stephen Strange.

[Jesse-Lee]

On 3/7/2022 at 10:00 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Okay, but you're wrong. MCU characters and stories are far cries from the source material. It looks even worse if you really want to compare Marvel's faithfulness to DC's.

Interconnected or organized does not mean faithful, at all. Which characters are faithful? Iron Man? Doctor Strange? Beyond that, they're not that close to their comic counterparts. The DCEU characters, with the exception of The Flash, are quite close to the New 52 that they're adapted from (however, Batman being from Miller's character).

Cavill's Superman is closer to comic book Superman than any MCU character to their own comic counterpart, with the possible exceptions of Tony Stark and Stephen Strange.

Seriously though, if we consider 2008 the "starting point" of the MCU with the release of Iron Man - in that same time frame, DC has had 5 different Batmans/Bruce Waynes, 5 different Jokers, 4 different Jim Gordons, and so on, and that's just Batman. It's hard to stay true to characters when you have so many different versions of each.

I don't disagree with you that Cavill fits the mold of Superman from a look and feel standpoint; he does - I just don't like his acting and I'm not a fan of his, and I think he's just mediocre. But I think that Iron Man, Thor, Banner, Peter Parker, Black Widow, Doctor Strange, Vision, Black Panther and so on look like they came off the page.

I don't love DC's aesthetic/style in the TV shows either - their shows have always had the feel of "teen drama" to me. With the exception of Peacemaker, which I thought was incredible.