Disney+'s STAR WARS: AHSOKA TANO show (TBD) 3 3

[Buzzetta]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:58 AM, drotto said:

Ok little rant.  I think the show looks good, and I like the characters, but two major complaints. 

1. Since when do light sabers no longer kill anyone?  In Disney Star Wars, I have seen way too many people get run through and not die.

2. Stop with the maps please.  In the Force Awakens we had a map leading to Luke. In the Rise of Skywalker, we had a map leading to the Emoror. Now we have a map leading to Thrawn. It is the same basic premise, and it makes no sense. Maps are inherently inaccurate when it comes to people because people have the ability move. A five or so year old map would be worthless, he may be in that region still, but space it massive even if you were in the right region, it would still be very hard to find them.  Especially Thrawn who is on a starship. Second, he was only "lost" a few years ago so why would the map leading to him be in an ancient temple and need a destroyed ruin to read it? Those things would have been created eons before a 5 years old map. If a modern map was created it would work on modern equipment. It makes no sense, it is a lazy Mcguffin to shortcut the part of the story where they would actually need to find people.

 

See I thought of that and figured that it was more along the lines as to where the Space Whales took Thrawn and Ezra.   Nobody in modern times knew their routes but some ancient order did. 

 

[drotto]

On 8/26/2023 at 11:46 AM, Buzzetta said:

See I thought of that and figured that it was more along the lines as to where the Space Whales took Thrawn and Ezra.   Nobody in modern times knew their routes but some ancient order did. 

 

How many people know about the space whales.  According to rebels they were rare or even viewed as extinct. So the whales would not be common knowledge. Plus, other then the rebels crew and maybe a few Imperials, nobody saw Thrawn get pulled away by them, or would be able to make the connection. It was just flat out not explained. I conceed, maybe it will be, but I doubt it.

 

But again, 5 years had passed with Thrawn on Star Destroyer. He surely would have been moving and trying to get back.  Even if that gave them a correct general region, it would be like locating a rowboat in the middle of the Pacific, and that is likely generous. He would not be found unless he was making a lot of noise, and not trying to hide.  If that was the case, no map needed. But more importantly Star Wars was not all about the Mcguffin, like it is now, ie the gold ball, the chip in EB8, or the dagger in RoS. While the shows looks good, the writing feels unoriginal.

 

In the original trilogy (I known not cannon), he returns home voluntarily when he hears about the Emporor's death, after having operated just beyond the outter rim systems, isolated, and with poor cominications. It took the news years to reach him.

[Microchip]

On 8/26/2023 at 11:58 PM, drotto said:

Ok little rant.  I think the show looks good, and I like the characters, but two major complaints. 

1. Since when do light sabers no longer kill anyone?  In Disney Star Wars, I have seen way too many people get run through and not die.

2. Stop with the maps please.  In the Force Awakens we had a map leading to Luke. In the Rise of Skywalker, we had a map leading to the Emporor. Now we have a map leading to Thrawn. It is the same basic premise, and it makes no sense. Maps are inherently inaccurate when it comes to people because people have the ability move. A five or so year old map would be worthless, he may be in that region still, but space it massive even if you were in the right region, it would still be very hard to find them.  Especially Thrawn who is on a starship. Second, he was only "lost" a few years ago so why would the map leading to him be in an ancient temple and need a destroyed ruin to read it? Those things would have been created eons before a 5 years old map. If a modern map was created it would work on modern equipment. It makes no sense, it is a lazy Mcguffin to shortcut the part of the story where they would actually need to find people.

 

Space travel is essentially the same as the Age of Sail.

The same rules apply.   If your sailing ship breaks, you're completely stranded, and with no way of communicating to the folks back home.   Sailing ships are the height of technology for your era, so there's no easy fix, or alternative to traversing the huge oceans (of space).

[Buzzetta]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:47 PM, drotto said:

How many people know about the space whales.  According to rebels they were rare or even viewed as extinct. So the whales would not be common knowledge. Plus, other then the rebels crew and maybe a few Imperials, nobody saw Thrawn get pulled away by them, or would be able to make the connection. It was just flat out not explained. I conceed, maybe it will be, but I doubt it.

 

But again, 5 years had passed with Thrawn on Star Destroyer. He surely would have been moving and trying to get back.  Even if that gave them a correct general region, it would be like locating a rowboat in the middle of the Pacific, and that is likely generous. He would not be found unless he was making a lot of noise, and not trying to hide.  If that was the case, no map needed. But more importantly Star Wars was not all about the Mcguffin, like it is now, ie the gold ball, the chip in EB8, or the dagger in RoS. While the shows looks good, the writing feels unoriginal.

 

In the original trilogy (I known not cannon), he returns home voluntarily when he hears about the Emporor's death, after having operated just beyond the outter rim systems, isolated, and with poor cominications. It took the news years to reach him.

They just showed them again in the Mandalorian.   I am guessing they are there to play a part in this as well.  The whole thing was an homage to the Well of Souls which would pinpoint the location of the ark so why wouldn't some ancient tribe or whatever hide a map on the migratory patterns of space whales. 

Aside from that... it's Star Wars...  An X-Wing Fighter should not be aerodynamic enough to work in an atmosphere so science does not really apply everywhere so I accept it for what it is. 

I was cool with it. 

[drotto]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:32 PM, Buzzetta said:

They just showed them again in the Mandalorian.   I am guessing they are there to play a part in this as well.  The whole thing was an homage to the Well of Souls which would pinpoint the location of the ark so why wouldn't some ancient tribe or whatever hide a map on the migratory patterns of space whales. 

Aside from that... it's Star Wars...  An X-Wing Fighter should not be aerodynamic enough to work in an atmosphere so science does not really apply everywhere so I accept it for what it is. 

I was cool with it. 

I think they will be tying into the idea of the World Between Worlds (why else would her title card contain that symbol) , as well a the more mystical aspects of the force established in the Clone Wars series with the Mortis etc. I do worry that going down that path may make it hard for people you have not watched all of the cartoons to follow this. This shows feels very much like Rebels season 5 so far, rather than it's own thing.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/26/2023 at 4:42 PM, drotto said:

I think they will be tying into the idea of the World Between Worlds (why else would her title card contain that symbol) , as well a the more mystical aspects of the force established in the Clone Wars series with the Mortis etc. I do worry that going down that path may make it hard for people you have not watched all of the cartoons to follow this. This shows feels very much like Rebels season 5 so far, rather than it's own thing.

That I absolutely agree with.  Another board member texted me this morning and asked, "I need to watch those essential clone wars and rebels episodes to appreciate Ashoka?"

My response?  "Yeaaah"

There is no way around it.  This really is going to be a continuation of Filoni's overall story. 

[smarkjobber]

On 8/26/2023 at 6:58 AM, drotto said:

1. Since when do light sabers no longer kill anyone?  In Disney Star Wars, I have seen way too many people get run through and not die.

 

The thing that bothers me about this moment is not that [the character] doesn't die (def did not want that under any circumstance), it's that there are 5 million options they could have went with. How is it possible that Filoni was unaware of this same s*** happening in Obi Wan? I know he didn't have any substantial/credited involvement in that show but you'd think he'd be aware of all the productions and someone at SW Story department would have flagged it. [The character] could have had a Finn slash or something. It was an unneeded cliffhanger.

On 8/26/2023 at 1:50 PM, Buzzetta said:

That I absolutely agree with.  Another board member texted me this morning and asked, "I need to watch those essential clone wars and rebels episodes to appreciate Ashoka?"

My response?  "Yeaaah"

There is no way around it.  This really is going to be a continuation of Filoni's overall story. 

I think any general SW fan can enjoy "Ahsoka" without TCW/Rebels -- to a good degree. There are probably a lot of people more hung up on the fact that half the audience knows more than them and thus puts them in a mindset that it cannot be enjoyed enough without it. Now, if it were me who had never seen the animated stuff these two eps would have had me running back immediately to check them out, but I am predisposed to love all this.

[Microchip]

Ok, I answered my own question if Ray Stevenson does more episodes.  IMDB had him credited with only 2 episodes for the series.

RIP Ray.

 

[smarkjobber]

On 8/27/2023 at 2:47 AM, Microchip said:

Ok, I answered my own question if Ray Stevenson does more episodes.  IMDB had him credited with only 2 episodes for the series.

RIP Ray.

 

He didn't pass while they were in production, so the only thing for certain is that he won't be in Season 2 unless there were scenes previously filmed. The imdb page most likely doesn't take into account episodes that have not aired.

[PsylockeSmythe]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:35 PM, smarkjobber said:

I think any general SW fan can enjoy "Ahsoka" without TCW/Rebels -- to a good degree. There are probably a lot of people more hung up on the fact that half the audience knows more than them and thus puts them in a mindset that it cannot be enjoyed enough without it. Now, if it were me who had never seen the animated stuff these two eps would have had me running back immediately to check them out, but I am predisposed to love all this.

This is me, I've enjoyed the first two episodes so far, and I've never watched TCW/Rebels.  I have been lost at times since I never saw TCW/Rebels, since I don't know any of the backstory, but I still don't have a desire to go back and see TCW/Rebels.  The animation style is just not to my taste.    

Psy

[I like pie]

On 8/26/2023 at 3:42 PM, drotto said:

 This shows feels very much like Rebels season 5 so far, rather than it's own thing.

That was the goal, thank goodness. 

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:51 AM, PsylockeSmythe said:

This is me, I've enjoyed the first two episodes so far, and I've never watched TCW/Rebels.  I have been lost at times since I never saw TCW/Rebels, since I don't know any of the backstory, but I still don't have a desire to go back and see TCW/Rebels.  The animation style is just not to my taste.    

Psy

I understand the taste part, and if it's too much to get past then avoid, but you are definitely missing out of some of the best Star Wars stories told to date. 

[smarkjobber]

On 8/28/2023 at 12:09 PM, awakeintheashes said:

I understand the taste part, and if it's too much to get past then avoid, but you are definitely missing out of some of the best Star Wars stories told to date. 

Yeah, I get being turned off by the style especially if it you were only exposed to the start of both series when the animation was at its roughest. Everyone says hold your nose and plow through TCW's first couple seasons, but what I'd recommend to people turned off by the style is skipping all the way to the arc where Ahsoka is framed (season 5?), then watch the last 4 eps of the series. Then, if you dug that, start watching other episodes/arcs.

I wouldn't recommend skipping any of Rebels (mostly bc it's my favorite).

[awakeintheashes]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:04 PM, smarkjobber said:

Yeah, I get being turned off by the style especially if it you were only exposed to the start of both series when the animation was at its roughest. Everyone says hold your nose and plow through TCW's first couple seasons, but what I'd recommend to people turned off by the style is skipping all the way to the arc where Ahsoka is framed (season 5?), then watch the last 4 eps of the series. Then, if you dug that, start watching other episodes/arcs.

I wouldn't recommend skipping any of Rebels (mostly bc it's my favorite).

That arc was really where you got the sense that the Jedi Order was too far gone - at least the Council was.

Ahsoka realized when we all did. I think deep down Anakin knew it, too. It was probably the moment that pushed him down that slide to the Dark Side even if he didn’t realize it at the time. 

Besides that arc, the battle between Maul, Oppress, and Sidious was one of my favorite moments of the show. Obi-Wan’s arc on Mandalore with Satine and Maul was pretty gutting. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by awakeintheashes

[Buzzetta]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:04 PM, smarkjobber said:

Yeah, I get being turned off by the style especially if it you were only exposed to the start of both series when the animation was at its roughest. Everyone says hold your nose and plow through TCW's first couple seasons, but what I'd recommend to people turned off by the style is skipping all the way to the arc where Ahsoka is framed (season 5?), then watch the last 4 eps of the series. Then, if you dug that, start watching other episodes/arcs.

I wouldn't recommend skipping any of Rebels (mostly bc it's my favorite).

I disagree because then they skip over a certain arc in Clone Wars Season 3.   Remember that Lucas was still the single Executive Producer of the series and had creative input to almost every season.  Something like what happened on that planet that had the three ancient beings had to be conferred with him since it really changes everything.

I just looked it up.  Season 3 Episodes 15, 16, and 17 could be considered very important especially as the characters depicted here were painted on the door to the World Between Worlds on Lothal. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Buzzetta

[drotto]

On 8/28/2023 at 9:58 PM, Buzzetta said:

I disagree because then they skip over a certain arc in Clone Wars Season 3.   Remember that Lucas was still the single Executive Producer of the series and had creative input to almost every season.  Something like what happened on that planet that had the three ancient beings had to be conferred with him since it really changes everything.

I just looked it up.  Season 3 Episodes 15, 16, and 17 could be considered very important especially as the characters depicted here were painted on the door to the World Between Worlds on Lothal. 

For me, Clone Wars really hits its stride when the have the time jump and age Ahsoka up half way through season 3.

 

I do actually like the Father, Brother, and Daughter stuff they brought in.  I know it was judged to be too esoteric and weird for the Disney Trilogy, but it is rumored to be what the original draft of episode 9 was. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by drotto

[smarkjobber]

On 8/28/2023 at 6:58 PM, Buzzetta said:

I disagree because then they skip over a certain arc in Clone Wars Season 3.   Remember that Lucas was still the single Executive Producer of the series and had creative input to almost every season.  Something like what happened on that planet that had the three ancient beings had to be conferred with him since it really changes everything.

I just looked it up.  Season 3 Episodes 15, 16, and 17 could be considered very important especially as the characters depicted here were painted on the door to the World Between Worlds on Lothal. 

If I am trying to sell TCW do someone who just watched Ahsoka I want to get them to the last 4 eps as quickly as possible to bait the hook and hopefully entice them to explore the rest.

[drotto]

On 8/28/2023 at 11:21 PM, smarkjobber said:

If I am trying to sell TCW do someone who just watched Ahsoka I want to get them to the last 4 eps as quickly as possible to bait the hook and hopefully entice them to explore the rest.

Unfortunately, that is tough with CW.  Most character arcs extend though the entire series, and may hurt enjoyment of the series by skipping around. Granted you can like the last 4 episodes, but part of the reason they are so good is the payoff.

[Buzzetta]

On 8/28/2023 at 10:46 PM, drotto said:

For me, Clone Wars really hits its stride when the have the time jump and age Ahsoka up half way through season 3.

 

I do actually like the Father, Brother, and Daughter stuff they brought in.  I know it was judged to be too esoteric and weird for the Disney Trilogy, but it is rumored to be what the original draft of episode 9 was. 

I did not know that about episode 9. 

[drotto]

On 8/29/2023 at 9:39 AM, Buzzetta said:

I did not know that about episode 9. 

Matt Smith was hired to be in Episode 9, and never appeared.  If you read the Trevorrow -script that leaked, it looks like his character was the Son from the Mortis arc. Remember, Trevorrow's version was written and into pre-production when he left the project and they changed direction.