They're Still Out There! 22 22

[Timely]

35 minutes ago, Chief1332 said:

There is a 10.0 SA book coming up on HA.

Where? I couldn’t find it. If there is one, I hope it looks perfect!

[Robot Man]

15 hours ago, VintageComics said:

The idea behind pressing books is to not leave money on the table.

If people who weren't interested in pressed books were willing to pay the prices of what books would press up to (that would take a little education on the bidder's part but not unreasonable considering how much money people are spending on books) then you would eliminate the press / resub market.

It's simple economics.

But it's unreasonable to expect sellers NOT to maximize their investment while buyer wouldn't pay a premium for the virgin material.

Thanks so much for the lesson on “simple economics”. I believe I understand the principle. 

I’ve been dealing in comics for 50 years. I remember seeing the Church collection for the first time. Chuck was asking multiples of guide. His point was that whatever we thought was “mint” went out the door with these books. He was right and we paid those multiples happily. They were indeed very special and unique. The collection was as found and not manulipated. 

CGC came to be because the price of comics got to be serious. Collectors were tired of being cheated with undisclosed restoration. 

Kind of sad, that our “standards” have slipped depending on how much money we can make. This was why CGC was created and now, in order to make a few more bucks CGC, HA and many of us turn a blind eye. 

We don’t know the back story on this collection. I have heard a lot of skuttle butt on the origin, the sellers even evaluations and who actually owns them. But this is just talk. Until we hear from HA (and when we do, it will be straight marketing), we will not know much. 

The longer this goes on, the less I’m really interested in owning any of these. Those of you who are more impressed with dollar signs than beautiful comics should have a heck of a good time. 

 

[jimbo_7071]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Lady Luck said:

Brave words coming from a purple dinosaur...

It's too bad we can't be talking about what a nice collection was found. Unfortunately, the chicanery overshadows everything else. And it appears that many of the books, like the Subby and the Sun-Girl, were ruined by pressing, so the collection sustained more damage in the past month than it did in the previous 75 years.

[Mr. Lady Luck]

For me, this collection is like a mysterious new kid at school who is handsome, smart and rich...

...and nobody likes him.

[Robot Man]

17 hours ago, MrBedrock said:

I want to keep them all. My hovel can handle them.

I’m with you Ritchie. They appear to be a wonderful collection. You folks would probably never know about most of them. 

[adamstrange]

2 hours ago, Chief1332 said:

There is a 10.0 SA book coming up on HA.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/thor-156-marvel-1968-cgc-mt-100-white-pages/p/7244-78001.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515

[thehumantorch]

1 hour ago, Robot Man said:

Thanks so much for the lesson on “simple economics”. I believe I understand the principle. 

I’ve been dealing in comics for 50 years. I remember seeing the Church collection for the first time. Chuck was asking multiples of guide. His point was that whatever we thought was “mint” went out the door with these books. He was right and we paid those multiples happily. They were indeed very special and unique. The collection was as found and not manulipated. 

CGC came to be because the price of comics got to be serious. Collectors were tired of being cheated with undisclosed restoration. 

Kind of sad, that our “standards” have slipped depending on how much money we can make. This was why CGC was created and now, in order to make a few more bucks CGC, HA and many of us turn a blind eye. 

We don’t know the back story on this collection. I have heard a lot of skuttle butt on the origin, the sellers even evaluations and who actually owns them. But this is just talk. Until we hear from HA (and when we do, it will be straight marketing), we will not know much. 

The longer this goes on, the less I’m really interested in owning any of these. Those of you who are more impressed with dollar signs than beautiful comics should have a heck of a good time. 

 

Let's be fair here.  This is an amazing collection and they are beautiful books and wanting to own any of them isn't just about the dollar signs.  

[Chief1332]

1 hour ago, Timely said:

Where? I couldn’t find it. If there is one, I hope it looks perfect!

Thor #156 (Marvel, 1968) CGC MT 10.0 White pages. That's right | LotID #78001 | Heritage Auctions

 

[Robot Man]

24 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

Let's be fair here.  This is an amazing collection and they are beautiful books and wanting to own any of them isn't just about the dollar signs.  

Oh, I fully agree. Looks like an amazing collection. Always blows my mind when one like this turns up. That is what makes it special. Just seems a little “tainted” with what has been done to them grading wise and the talk of what they will bring money wise. 

Would love to hear the real story on them. 

[thehumantorch]

1 minute ago, Robot Man said:

Oh, I fully agree. Looks like an amazing collection. Always blows my mind when one like this turns up. That is what makes it special. Just seems a little “tainted” with what has been done to them grading wise and the talk of what they will bring money wise. 

Would love to hear the real story on them. 

Agreed, always love hearing about the collector behind a collection like this.

Tainted?  Unfortunately this isn't the quiet little hobby that we grew up with.  There are a lot of people who care about the money more than the books

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

The people who engage in it surely take refuge in the “but everyone else is doing it” defense. I’m not sure if it really is everyone, or just a determined few

[Robot Man]

23 minutes ago, thehumantorch said:

Agreed, always love hearing about the collector behind a collection like this.

Tainted?  Unfortunately this isn't the quiet little hobby that we grew up with.  There are a lot of people who care about the money more than the books

It really always has been. Once people found out there were collectors willing to pay money for old comics, money became a bigger focus. Problem is, this is when collectors loved the books. Seems like investing and big money has come in, the focus has dramatically shifted. 

[Robot Man]

5 minutes ago, szav said:

Grading debate aside it’s pretty amazing to think we’re still at less than 5% of the books revealed.  I should like to see fewer five-six figure books and more of the drek.

Hoping there will be a fair amount of fun books without s lot of splash coming up for some us “shallow end” collectors. I suspect there will be.

Like the wonderful Berk collection, there were a nice amount of cool books that slipped through for those that were patient and diligent. 

[Mmehdy]

12 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Yeah, my bad here as I might not have stated this in the most clear and diplomatic way like @Mmehdy when he said that all complaints about the grading of the book will be forgotten in the heat of the auction.  

I was also referring more to the big new money that Mitch was alluding to as coming from outside the hobby just for this collection, as I am 100% certain that long time collectors like you and some of the other boardies here with not only years, but decades of collecting experience will indeed know all the attributes of the comics before bidding big dollars on it.  Most likely not so much for the newbies with the deep pocket who are thinking about moving in for the first time just for some of these books from the Promise Collection here, as I am sure that they will not be as aware of the minute and tiny defects on the comic books themselves, and will more than likely resort simply on the CGC grade to make their bids.  

Although successful people with lots of money to throw around are also usually very fast learners, I somehow don't think they are fast enough to learn about the intricacies and finer details of the whole grading game within a couple of short months before these books hit the auction block.  

Agree 100% on that, I would add, they might at the beginning  use a bit of caution or hesitation in buying or going all in, which would give us true comic book collectors a real shot at some "once in a lifetime Books". That is why be prepared early to go in rather than later, when the "label buyers" are coming in with blinders on.

[Mmehdy]

6 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

It's a shame. I would have loved to bid on some of these books if they had been graded accurately. As it is, I have no chance of walking away with any of them because my valuation will be way below that of people who are bidding based on the label.

I disagree over 5000 books, but see above for your best chance!

[jimbo_7071]

Mitch, we all know that if a 7.0 book is sitting in a 9.0 holder, there are people who will blithely pay a 9.0 price for it. We've all seen it too many times to count.

[Timely]

1 hour ago, Chief1332 said:

Thor #156 (Marvel, 1968) CGC MT 10.0 White pages. That's right | LotID #78001 | Heritage Auctions

 

Evans joked that if CBCS graded the collection there would be a lot of them graded 10. I responded saying there are no 10 Golden Age or Silver Age CBCS books as of now, only Bronze Age to current !

[Mmehdy]

23 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Mitch, we all know that if a 7.0 book is sitting in a 9.0 holder, there are people who will blithely pay a 9.0 price for it. We've all seen it too many times to count.

Unless seen in person, I always doubt the scan as to the books actual real condition but I understand your concern and always accepting  in advance  some downward grade wise  wiggle room before purchase.  The last GA book I bought raw I was burned by at least 2 full grade points and reminded me how great CGC truly is on that level. MH comic books were 4x current market at the time.of initial sale..the current pedigree collection  will go price wise over market price as well, but over graded books might go less...Jimbo it is not gonna matter 5 years from now, when ever new collector, investor will want to have these books at 3x what you paid. This is MH all over again....why, well Billy Wrights collection was the perfect number 367 or something like that which was spread over two auctions at ha. 5000 vs 367 is approximately 15 TIMES the size of that collection, hence the market effect of that collection was a much smaller footprint. This collection will go down in the hall of fame of pedigrees. I am not suggesting that you buy every book, but that you come to some realization that this is 'IT", a special moment in GA comic book collecting history and that those who do not buy something will be complaining  down the road and some grade differential is not matter in terms of the price you pay today. Chose wisely as to the GA book that you want,  go for the GA book itself and not a 7.0 graded 9.0 or a 8.0 graded 7.0..when label looking you forget  that it is the GA book which you wanted all along.

Edited May 9, 2021 by Mmehdy

[Pickie]

I look forward to seeing the pictures of the place where the books were stored, the chests, the cupboards (?) ... and to learning about the details of the storage conditions.

Everything has been documented properly, I take it? 

[Robot Man]

57 minutes ago, jimbo_7071 said:

Mitch, we all know that if a 7.0 book is sitting in a 9.0 holder, there are people who will blithely pay a 9.0 price for it. We've all seen it too many times to count.

I suspect that this will be truer than any other time in our hobby. There is a lot of non old time collector money fueling high prices right now. I suspect that crazy label chasers will be disappointed down the road when they decide to cash in on their investments.

Anybody else remember the Billy Wright’s? I know a lot of commotion was caused by an embezzler but a lot of folks paid up a bit too much and lost some money. This cool pedigree has sadly, suffered a bit ever since.