Post your Promise Collection wins! 17 17

[lou_fine]

On 6/19/2021 at 5:37 AM, tth2 said:

I was commenting to another collector that one of the interesting things about the Jon Berk auction was that the buyers seemed pretty spread out and quite a number of buyers publicized their wins, including here.

In contrast, as far as I know, the buyers of a lot of the high profile sales on Heritage in the last few years (e.g., the Church Pep, Hit and Zip runs) have remained anonymous.  I expect the same to be true for the Promise books.

Although I would personally consider both the Jon Berk and Promise Collection auctions to be like a virtual once in a lifetime generational event in terms of their overall magnitude, I also feel they are 100% different in terms of their nature.  

Jon Berk's collection was a post generation collector's private collection compiled with love and passion over an extended period of time during his adult collecting years. Generational and historic in the sense of a collection made up of many books which could seemingly never ever be found in the marketplace, let alone in any graded condition at all, whether unrestored, Conserved, or even Restored.  A collection in which he has often shared with the hobby place not only physically with his many collector friends, but also through the many articles that he had authored throughout the decades and which surely helped to grow the hobby over the years.  As he had stated, he considered himself to be the fortunate caretaker of all of these books over the decades and saw the auctioning off of them as his way to pass them onto the next generation of comic book collectors to love and care for them the way that he had.  As such, it was probably a complete success as his collection did end up landing in the hands of many many dedicated and long time passionate comic collectors and it's certainly a special and nice feeling to know that Jon will be able to enjoy the benefits of his collection in his retirement years as its most certainly well deserved.  

To me, the Promise Collection is an Original Owner collection compiled with love and passion over a short period of years by a teen or young adult during his shortened collecting years.  Generational and historic in the sense of a collection although made up of many books that can be found in the marketplace, but generally not in the uber high grade condition which these books were originally maintained in and subsequently with its potential maximized for sale as necessary.  A collection which noboby but the family themselves even knew existed for over 70 plus years and the ownership of which will continue to remain anonymous as per the family's wishes, even in the midst of the auctioning off of their books which will surely help to grow the market going forward.  Although the collection was compiled due to the passionate love of one brother for the funny books and then maintained over the subsequent decades by the love of the other brother to his fallen sibling and one deep enough to keep his promise to his brother right through to the very end of his own life last year, even though other members of the family had apparently wanted to disposed of the collection years earlier.  Unfortunately for the hobby, a collection that appears to be targeted more towards the deep pocketed collectors/investors as opposed to the "regular" comic book collectors like the majority of us on these boards here and also one in which the two brothers will sadly not be able to enjoy the benefits of from either a financial or historical legacy point of view upon its disposal.   

From a personal collecting point of view, although I was the fortunate winner of several of Jon Berk's books in his auction as I am sure many others here also were, by Day 4 and 5 of the auction, I was already regretting not having bid more aggressively on some of the truly HTF rare books in the earlier sessions in hopes of adding them into my collection.  With the Promise Collection, although I didn't win any of the books here in this first batch (and probably the same in future batches going forward) as I am sure many others here also were not, I don't regret for a single minute not bidding higher on any of these books here because I get the feeling they were never really intended to be passed onto collectors like me anyways.  Especially since at this later stage of my own personal collecting life cycle and rather oddly with this age of certification now fully upon us, I am really much more into the actual underlying book itself, as opposed to the condition of the book itself, especially in terms of its subjectively determined graded label which on occasion I find rather perflexing or questionable to say the least when looking at the book itself.  

Nevertheless, big huge congrats to the boardies here who MANNUP to pick up some of these absolutely gorgeous Promise Collection books like the classic Schomburg All-Select 2 and the absolutely stunning copy of Flash 86.    

Edited June 26, 2021 by lou_fine

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

37 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Unfortunately for the hobby, a collection that appears to be targeted more towards the deep pocketed collectors/investors as opposed to the "regular" comic book collectors like the majority of us on these boards here and also one in which the two brothers will sadly not be able to enjoy the benefits of from either a financial or historical legacy point of view upon its disposal.   

Well thought out observation. 
I don’t think the brothers ever had any thought about the value. I think it’s the current purveyors of the collection that think that way. Not sure this thinking would have been rewarded so handsomely if not for the crypto guys. And I don’t think the Berk collection made it onto the radar screens of the crypto guys. In fact, I don’t think there was any such thing as a crypto guy back then. So maybe that’s the difference between the way the Berk auction went down compared to the Promise Collection 

Edited June 26, 2021 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[lou_fine]

13 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Not sure this thinking would have been rewarded if not for the crypto guys. 

When did you become one of these FOMO driven crazed crypto guys?  

BTW:  Absolutely love that beautiful All-Select 2 that you picked up from the collection as that's one of the two best covers in the entire run.  

[tth2]

1 hour ago, szav said:

Yes sorry, it’s not meaningless at all, it’s a great deal.  While the HA cut of 10% is the same whether selling through MOTO or reconsignjng through that certificate offer, there’s a lot of value in getting to send it back to auction, having it re-featured, having them cover the initial shipping cost etc.

That's what we're saying, that the certificate is only necessary (and valuable) for someone who's going to consign to an auction. 

[MasterChief]

16 hours ago, tth2 said:

Mitch, this is the standard certificate that Heritage normally provides with some books.  It just means that Heritage will waive their normal 10% seller's commission, which is no big deal because Heritage almost always waives that anyways, often times without the consignor even asking for it.

But it means that without any further negotiation, Heritage keeps all of the BP.  So a book hammers for $1000, total price is $1200 inclusive of BP, and the consignor takes home $1000 and Heritage keeps $200.

Under the certificate with the Promise book, the consignor gets 90% of the total price inclusive of BP.  So under the same auction result above, the consignor now gets $1080 rather than $1000, and Heritage gets $120 instead of $200.  

It basically levels the playing field with CC and CL (in terms of auction fees) for anyone thinking about reselling a Promise book.

Thanks for the explanation, Tim. Very helpful.

While I've received these certs before, I've paid them no mind until Clark posted his (which I read in full). The language is curious. So much so I took a look at my other certs. Oddly enough, the certs for original art have different language from the Promise and Church. All of my art certs have the same wording...

Edited June 26, 2021 by MasterChief

[MasterChief]

15 hours ago, tth2 said:

By the way, the Wild West was my consignment, so thanks for winning it! It's a beauty! 

Nice to know where it came from! I am honored to be the caretaker going forward!

[MasterChief]

22 hours ago, lou_fine said:

If they had Mitch's Mile High Ceritifcate instead, this means that although they will not be charged the SP, they will have to forgo the 20% BP to Heritage and thereby net only $1,000 or 83.33% of the final total price including the BP, giving Heritage 16.67% of the final total price.

Well, that's BS. I thought those Heritage guys said the Promise collection runs a close second to the Church collection. Therefore, Church certificates should be of greater than or equal value to the Promise ones. I feel disadvantaged. I want my auction equity!  

[tth2]

7 hours ago, MasterChief said:

Thanks for the explanation, Tim. Very helpful.

While I've received these certs before, I've paid them no mind until Clark posted his (which I read in full). The language is curious. So much so I took a look at my other certs. Oddly enough, the certs for original art have different language from the Promise and Church. All of my art certs have the same wording...

Basically, Heritage are offering a worse deal on OA consignments than on comic consignments, waiving only 50% of the seller's commission versus 100%.

[lou_fine]

On 6/26/2021 at 7:55 PM, tth2 said:

Basically, Heritage are offering a worse deal on OA consignments than on comic consignments, waiving only 50% of the seller's commission versus 100%.

Maybe that's because they figure that they are clearly top dog when it comes to the OA market and hence no need to offer the same huge discount.  

This is clearly not so definitive when it comes to the comic book market, and they need to compete with their competitors like CL and CC. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by lou_fine

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 6/26/2021 at 7:34 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

I just assumed Heritage was offering to put the book back in an auction and give back 90% of the proceeds. Maybe they are only talking about a “Make Offer” scenario. I’m going to look into this

@tth2, I asked, and here is their response:

[Mmehdy]

4 hours ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

@tth2, I asked, and here is their response:

wow..ha is putting its money where their mouth is....great clarification.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

do we have any boardies here with an affiliation to GPA Analysis?

if so, the site could be made more accurate by including sales taxes into their report data.

especially with the Current record setting Promise Collection. Is there anyone that Heritage does NOT charge sales taxes to? 

The sales of the Promise Collection are already in GPA, but I see they are inaccurate by thousands of dollars since they do not account for taxes in their sales report data. 

the GPA data does add in the BP, thankfully. I just think they should also add taxes. Bidders factor in sales taxes as well as BP when placing bids.

 

[comicdonna]

3 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

do we have any boardies here with an affiliation to GPA Analysis?

We have George.  @gpanalysis  

[whomerjay]

16 minutes ago, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

do we have any boardies here with an affiliation to GPA Analysis?

if so, the site could be made more accurate by including sales taxes into their report data.

especially with the Current record setting Promise Collection. Is there anyone that Heritage does NOT charge sales taxes to? 

The sales of the Promise Collection are already in GPA, but I see they are inaccurate by thousands of dollars since they do not account for taxes in their sales report data. 

the GPA data does add in the BP, thankfully. I just think they should also add taxes. Bidders factor in sales taxes as well as BP when placing bids.

 

It would make GPA more accurate. But  for most books in all venues, today and in the past, we either don’t know or can’t find out whether sales tax is/was charged. In the past some eBay books were subject to sales tax; now most but not all. Same with auction/exchange sites. Better to just not consider it in GPA. 
 

Also, I assume most heavy hitters buying big books have a resale tax certificate. If not they should fire their accountant.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

7 minutes ago, whomerjay said:

It would make GPA more accurate. But  for most books in all venues, today and in the past, we either don’t know or can’t find out whether sales tax is/was charged. In the past some eBay books were subject to sales tax; now most but not all. Same with auction/exchange sites. Better to just not consider it in GPA. 
 

Also, I assume most heavy hitters buying big books have a resale tax certificate. If not they should fire their accountant.

OK, I guess that is how I will start viewing the GPA data.  Mentally, I will start adding approx 6% to whatever sales price is reflected therein.  Thanks for the idea.

I don't sell books, so I have no need for a resale tax certificate.  In fact, I just now had to google it, and I see your point:  for people "in the biz" of buying and selling, they are obligated to report their earnings.  I see the resale tax certificate allows them to save a few bucks by avoiding taxes for their purchases.  Yes, this definitely would complicate efforts to accurately reflect sale prices, because you can never know who is paying sales taxes and who is not.

Thank you for your post

Edited June 30, 2021 by GreatCaesarsGhost

[Funnybooks]

Any other Promise wins?

[Badger]

On 6/19/2021 at 9:40 AM, GreatCaesarsGhost said:

Ok I’m going to go first. I was literally sitting with a client in the courtroom, waiting for the judge to call my case, as I surreptitiously bid for this:

[Funnybooks]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

[Badger]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:24 PM, Markentoth said:

This was my only Promise win.
I really didn't expect to win it; I set a price in my head and promised myself I wouldn't go beyond it.
It went for less than I expected, so yay!

Really nice, buddy!

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

On 6/22/2021 at 3:24 PM, Markentoth said:

This was my only Promise win.
I really didn't expect to win it; I set a price in my head and promised myself I wouldn't go beyond it.
It went for less than I expected, so yay!

I don’t know how I missed this post. Congratulations! Great book