The Future of Golden Age comic book collecting post 2021: Blackstone, Promise and Beyond: The great unknown. 1 1

[lou_fine]

50 minutes ago, bronze johnny said:

You don’t see a problem with a grading company buying an auction house?

Of course I do as do so many of us here as these apparent conflicts of inteest have been voiced many times before in the past here already. 

Not only apparent conflicts of interest bewtween a grading company and an auction house, but also with their other services such as when CCG brout out Matt's Classics Incorporated business and turned it into CCS.  Definite conflict of interest when CGC graded Jon Berk's collection for a competing auction house, and yet at the time, some boardies stated that it only made business sense for CGC to have undergraded Jon's books.  I giess that's also the same rationale for making business sense for CGC to overgrade the Promise Colletion of books as they are all being consigned through their indirect linked Heritage Auction house.  

Yeah, conflicts of interest all over the place, but as long as you are aware of the game being played on you and be sure to place your bids accordingly.  

[tth2]

7 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

Blackstone. This company takes every single asset and exploits their value to the maximum. They will throw any money necessary to make more money

 You clearly have no experience working with PE firms. 

"PE" stands for private equity. 

[N e r V]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Of course I do as do so many of us here as these apparent conflicts of inteest have been voiced many times before in the past here already. 

Not only apparent conflicts of interest bewtween a grading company and an auction house, but also with their other services such as when CCG brout out Matt's Classics Incorporated business and turned it into CCS.  Definite conflict of interest when CGC graded Jon Berk's collection for a competing auction house, and yet at the time, some boardies stated that it only made business sense for CGC to have undergraded Jon's books.  I giess that's also the same rationale for making business sense for CGC to overgrade the Promise Colletion of books as they are all being consigned through their indirect linked Heritage Auction house.  

Yeah, conflicts of interest all over the place, but as long as you are aware of the game being played on you and be sure to place your bids accordingly.  

 

6 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

You don’t see a problem with a grading company buying an auction house?

[Mmehdy]

2 hours ago, tth2 said:

 You clearly have no experience working with PE firms. 

"PE" stands for private equity. 

You can call it PE or ABCD or whatever, Blackstone owns it with the majority shareholder interest. I am assuming that a majority stake is 51% of the company as the press release indicates. I am further assuming they did not sign an anti-dilution class which is unheard of him in this kind of transition. Blackstone owns this puppy. Just because they own a majority of the shares and they are a PE firm whatever that means depending on the time of day, does not mean they will be either direct lend or provide access to a very high credit line thru their Wall Street connections.

 Just read the press release: "Blackstone will seek to accelerate CGC's growth, enabling the company to  invest significantly in its current and planned services, adding and training new employees, expanding its geographic and product reach, acquiring new technologies and developing its digital presence". Now this is not gonna happen with best wishes from Blackstone, as a passive PE watcher...the money is gonna come from somewhere and its either hard money direct cash investment, credit line creation etc.  These proposed changes require  serious cash investment.

I stand by my statement that Blackstone will not be a passive equity watcher in this company.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Mmehdy

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, N e r V said:

12 hours ago, bronze johnny said:

You don’t see a problem with a grading company buying an auction house?

Like I've stated here many times before........what the consumer or buying public (i.e. collectors/submittors in our case here) sees as potential conflicts of interest, the companies or corporations (i.e. CCG/now Blackstone in our case here) see as the successful realization of business synergies. 

[Cat-Man_America]

6 hours ago, tth2 said:

 You clearly have no experience working with PE firms. 

"PE" stands for private equity. 

I misread that too.  Us old school guys see "PE" and think phys-ed.  Heck, I get it.  We need to lose a few pounds. You young upstarts don't have to rub it in! 

[lou_fine]

5 hours ago, Mmehdy said:

 Just read the press release: "Blackstone will seek to accelerate CGC's CCG's growth, enabling the company to  invest significantly in its current and planned services, adding and training new employees, expanding its geographic and product reach, acquiring new technologies and developing its digital presence". Now this is not gonna happen with best wishes from Blackstone, as a passive PE watcher...the money is gonna come from somewhere and its either hard money direct cash investment, credit line creation etc.  These proposed changes require  serious cash investment.

I stand by my statement that Blackstone will not be a passive equity watcher in this company.

Mitch;

Either you really need to read your press releases much more carefully or you simply still do not understand that there's a big huge difference between CCG and CGC. 

What Blackstone acquired was a majority stake in CCG which is the parent umbrella company that CGC falls under.  It should be noted that CGC is only a small fractional portion of CCG since they have already graded more than 62 million collectible items, with the CGC comic book side of the business accounting for only some odd 6.3 million or only roughly 10% of the total.  As West has already stated, the overwhelming majority of these graded items to date would be from the numismatic side of the CCG operations since that is where the former founder/owner came from.  

If you are talking about upcoming expansion and accelerating growth for CCG, my bet is that they are targeting the sports related side of the business which they have just recently moved into.  Especially when you consider that the brand new additional minority investors they have brought in at the same time as Blackstone are ALL from the sports industry (i.e. Michael Rubin, S.C. Holdings, Rudy Cline-Thomas, Andre Iguodala, Daryl Morey, and Main Street Advisors) and basketball in particular.  So, I highly doubt they are bringing in these news investors with their heavy sports related backgrounds to focus in on trying to grow the small fractional CGC comic book side of their CCG operations, but rather to try to acquire a share of the burgeoning and rapidly growing global sports related collectibles marketplace.  

Edited July 5, 2021 by lou_fine

[N e r V]

5 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Mitch;

Either you really need to read your press releases much more carefully or you simply still do not understand that there's a big huge difference between CCG and CGC. 

What Blackstone acquired was a majority stake in CCG which is the parent umbrella company that CGC falls under.  It should be noted that CGC is only a small fractional portion of CCG since they have already graded more than 62 million collectible items, with the CGC comic book side of the business accounting for only some odd 6.3 million or only roughly 10% of the total.  As West has already stated, the overwhelming majority of these graded items to date would be from the numismatic side of the CCG operations since that is where the former founder/owner came from.  

If you are talking about upcoming expansion and accelerating growth for CCG, my bet is that they are targeting the sports related side of the business which they have just recently moved into.  Especially when you consider that the brand new additional minority investors they have brought in at the same time as Blackstone are ALL from the sports industry (i.e. Michael Rubin, S.C. Holdings, Rudy Cline-Thomas, Andre Iguodala, Daryl Morey, and Main Street Advisors) and basketball in particular.  So, I highly doubt they are bringing in these news investors with their heavy sports related backgrounds to focus in on trying to grow the small fractional CGC comic book side of their CCG operations, but rather to try to acquire a share of the burgeoning and rapidly growing global sports related collectibles marketplace.  

[bronze johnny]

9 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Like I've stated here many times before........what the consumer or buying public (i.e. collectors/submittors in our case here) sees as potential conflicts of interest, the companies or corporations (i.e. CCG/now Blackstone in our case here) see as the successful realization of business synergies. 

Business synergies modern attempts at remaking the old “company town.”

[path4play]

On 7/3/2021 at 9:49 PM, Courageous Cat said:

in my 50's now, but I recall in my early years yearning for the day when comics would get their due respect...well, 2021 is here and now they have major respect, but if your new to the hobby and unless you're a Silicon Valley guy or crypto guru, its looks like funny animal will be your collection theme indefinitely  (no offense to funny animal folks)

Let me re-introduced everybody to one of the most popular and longest lasting superheros of the GA, Plastic Man.  Sure, no classic covers that look good in a slab, and no Hollywood movies.  But entertaining stories and Jack Cole art are inside that can be had for a song for us non-crtypo millionaires.

[Robot Man]

26 minutes ago, path4play said:

Let me re-introduced everybody to one of the most popular and longest lasting superheros of the GA, Plastic Man.  Sure, no classic covers that look good in a slab, and no Hollywood movies.  But entertaining stories and Jack Cole art are inside that can be had for a song for us non-crtypo millionaires.

I would add the Spirit as well. Incredible art and stories. Of course these titles are mostly for those who actually like to turn pages and read. 

[path4play]

3 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

I would add the Spirit as well. Incredible art and stories. Of course these titles are mostly for those who actually like to turn pages and read. 

Good example Robot.  Not in the same category for art or stories, but Captain Marvel GA is pretty reasonable, and it even has (well two actually) recent movies!

 

[jimbo_7071]

48 minutes ago, path4play said:

Good example Robot.  Not in the same category for art or stories, but Captain Marvel GA is pretty reasonable, and it even has (well two actually) recent movies!

 

I like C. C. Beck's interior art, but most of the covers are just awful.

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

On 7/3/2021 at 6:49 PM, Courageous Cat said:

in my 50's now, but I recall in my early years yearning for the day when comics would get their due respect...well, 2021 is here and now they have major respect, but if your new to the hobby and unless you're a Silicon Valley guy or crypto guru, its looks like funny animal will be your collection theme indefinitely  (no offense to funny animal folks)

Have you looked at the recent prices on graded Disney on Heritage? No refuge in funny animal either. My other go to bargain fun DC obscure is also demanding similar stratospheric prices.

[lou_fine]

1 hour ago, 50YrsCollctngCmcs said:

Have you looked at the recent prices on graded Disney on Heritage? No refuge in funny animal either. My other go to bargain fun DC obscure is also demanding similar stratospheric prices.

Would you by any chance be referring to Ducks books such as this one here which sold for a rather astounding and totally unexpected $90K:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/four-color-178-donald-duck-rockford-pedigree-dell-1947-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7244-94042.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

[lou_fine]

3 hours ago, path4play said:

Let me re-introduced everybody to one of the most popular and longest lasting superheros of the GA, Plastic Man.  Sure, no classic covers that look good in a slab, and no Hollywood movies.  But entertaining stories and Jack Cole art are inside that can be had for a song for us non-crtypo millionaires.

Definitely a very good example here, although I do believe Police Comics 1 with the first appearance of both Plastic Man and Phantom Lady has been moving up on the pricing charts quite nicely the past couple of years.  

I also assume the rather astounding auction succes of the Promise Collection copy of PL 17 along with the other issues just might also give Police Comics 1 another long awaited and much deserved push, even though her earlier Quality appearances clearly takes a back seat to her later Fox appearances with the classic artwork by Baker.  

[50YrsCollctngCmcs]

1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

Would you by any chance be referring to Ducks books such as this one here which sold for a rather astounding and totally unexpected $90K:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/four-color-178-donald-duck-rockford-pedigree-dell-1947-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7244-94042.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

yes but all relatively high grade Disney books are seeing strong results

[tth2]

16 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Mitch;

Either you really need to read your press releases much more carefully or you simply still do not understand that there's a big huge difference between CCG and CGC. 

What Blackstone acquired was a majority stake in CCG which is the parent umbrella company that CGC falls under.  It should be noted that CGC is only a small fractional portion of CCG since they have already graded more than 62 million collectible items, with the CGC comic book side of the business accounting for only some odd 6.3 million or only roughly 10% of the total.  As West has already stated, the overwhelming majority of these graded items to date would be from the numismatic side of the CCG operations since that is where the former founder/owner came from.  

If you are talking about upcoming expansion and accelerating growth for CCG, my bet is that they are targeting the sports related side of the business which they have just recently moved into.  Especially when you consider that the brand new additional minority investors they have brought in at the same time as Blackstone are ALL from the sports industry (i.e. Michael Rubin, S.C. Holdings, Rudy Cline-Thomas, Andre Iguodala, Daryl Morey, and Main Street Advisors) and basketball in particular.  So, I highly doubt they are bringing in these news investors with their heavy sports related backgrounds to focus in on trying to grow the small fractional CGC comic book side of their CCG operations, but rather to try to acquire a share of the burgeoning and rapidly growing global sports related collectibles marketplace.  

Although, Daryl Morey is a nerd (MIT grad), so he could be a comic book fan.

[tth2]

3 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Would you by any chance be referring to Ducks books such as this one here which sold for a rather astounding and totally unexpected $90K:  

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/four-color-178-donald-duck-rockford-pedigree-dell-1947-cgc-nm-96-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7244-94042.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

I think that high price can be attributed to the stellar provenance of the book. 

I could see someone who's so inclined resubmitting it to try to get a 9.8, for whatever that's worth since either way it will be the sole highest graded copy. I've looked at the book many times and couldn't find any defects other than the bindery tear at the top left corner (I think CGC can give 9.8s to books with such a manufacturing defect), although admittedly I only ever owned it as a slab and was never able to inspect the book without a layer of plastic in between us.  But the edges and corners are razor and the spine is immaculate.   

[lou_fine]

31 minutes ago, tth2 said:

Although, Daryl Morey is a nerd (MIT grad), so he could be a comic book fan.

Well, that could be true for any of these new investors as they could all be closet nerdy comic book collectors like the rest of us here.  

Although I get the feeling he was invited to join into the group due to his connections as being the current President of the Philadelpia 76ers.