Rick2you2 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 10:26 AM, vodou said: Assuming people are still "investing" (mentally, collecting, and actually putting down more than pocket change) in new Big Two characters/titles/whatever, it's not hard to see that the art will come into it's own in time. But what happens to the older art (and comics) that the newer (hot!) stuff is founded upon? It slows, okay, but does it die on the vine at some point? (Or is there just infinite dollars chasing finite examples...infinitely?) How could it...if the new hot! stuff is built upon it (in the "Universe" fashion)? For four decades "new" art collectors have bought up their own era stuff and then collected backwards but now 2x SA superhero is so high...that's getting really, really hard to do on less than a serious six figure annual income (heck even "collecting back to 80s" is getting pretty tough for more than a few examples a year for most of modest means/earning power). So..? Is it possible we see a world where Liefeld New Mutants covers go for $1m but Kirby FF covers "only" go for 1.5m? Or maybe even "only" $650k? Before you scoff...put your own numbers up instead but at similar ratios (to keep the point the same) and...can that happen? Can Disney/Marvel still be "loved" but new "same old, same old" be worth the same or even more than "same old old"? Otherwise, if "new" Big Two is a relative flash in the pan of inflationary excess (in general) then it's much easier to see it all collapsing "whenever" the whole edifice propped up by artificial liquidity dries up. That's easy, it's the previous paragragh that makes me think, and I could argue either side of it. In one sense, you are only looking at the “best case” scenario. What about the price for art by journeymen or on characters who aren’t fan favorites (where I like to dwell). Where is Jack Sparling’s Bomba work going? Or Ramona Fredon (really nice lady) and Metamorpho? They will get killed. And then we get to things like Kirby’s Boys Ranch—great artist, subject matter, uh-uh. A lot of the art I have bought in the past 2 years has not gone up or not gone up much, which is the way I like it. But if this is prologue for the future, the financial future for most art by Ross Andru, Richard Dillin, etc., is not pretty. Terry E. Gibbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 I actually think all artwork collecting will go away as we move in to fractional ownership . He is a good read on one company that does this (similar to other companies during fractional “ownership”). https://wantfi.com/masterworks-review.html ThothAmon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timely Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 12:50 PM, batman_fan said: I actually think all artwork collecting will go away as we move in to fractional ownership . He is a good read on one company that does this (similar to other companies during fractional “ownership”). https://wantfi.com/masterworks-review.html I hear it's no fun to drive a fraction of a Lamborghini. hmendryk, davidtere, vodou and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThothAmon Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 1:50 PM, batman_fan said: fractional “ownership Comics with no covers is as close as I’ll come. vodou and batman_fan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 1:13 PM, Timely said: I hear it's no fun to drive a fraction of a Lamborghini. You don’t think it would be cool to see the look on your friends faces when you tell them about the car you partially own but can’t drive or actually ever even touch? Terry E. Gibbs and ThothAmon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 3:39 PM, batman_fan said: You don’t think it would be cool to see the look on your friends faces when you tell them about the car you partially own but can’t drive or actually ever even touch? ...but still have pay insurance and upkeep on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 1:45 PM, vodou said: ...but still have pay insurance and upkeep on? Plus the fees, don’t forget the fees ThothAmon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JadeGiant Posted March 7, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/6/2022 at 9:19 PM, Xatari said: There really are a ton of folks who collect more modern pieces, but they are not as visible. What I found when I came into this hobby is the most visible and vocal “hubs” of collecting… CAF videos, dealers, podcasts, etc, tend to be created by collectors of the same age range. It’s not a surprise that it feels like some of the aforementioned niches of the hobby feel elevated given these are the pieces that are most celebrated and promoted most frequently. I believe this is a season in the hobby, and it will inevitably shift once certain collectors begin to “age out” and others come into more disposable income. Every collecting generation has their characters that feel most relevant and important but that is a moving target that changes with time. Characters like Echo, Yelena, Kate Bishop, Riri, America Chavez, Gwen and even Miles to some degree etc were not on most collectors’ radar a few years ago but now have increasing importance and cultural significance because of what Disney/Marvel are doing. A lot of these pages are still very affordable. I helped a new collector grab a good chunk of America #1 about a year ago, so this is a great place for new collectors to start and begin thinking about the future. This is so true. When I started selling new art I was astonished at how much does NOT end up anywhere online - the vast majority. There are a lot more collectors than we (as a group of active art collectors with an online presence) imagine. At least that was the case for myself. Is the hobby too expensive? Yes and No. For the premium, blue chip SA stuff the answer is yes for most. But the point made about there being so many entry points to the hobby for everyone is also true. If you want art of your favorite characters, there are a ton of options that most can afford via sketches, commissions, new published art, etc. There is a degree of hustle that is needed to maximize your enjoyment in the hobby but if you love art, the hustle seems less like a chore, and more of fun aspect of the hobby. I realize that many don't enjoy the hustle and grind so I may tend to skew to the extreme in this perspective. The thing about any large hobby that can be excessively expensive is that you have to draw your line in the sand. Most of the time your wallet does this for you and we all have pieces that are in and out of our consideration set for buying (unless luck shows you good fortune). I'd love a Kirby Hulk from the first 6 issues, one with a big image of the Hulk and a key part of the origin story line - but I am not likely the buyer if such a piece would come to market because it is across my line (still hoping it happens and fortune smiles upon me). I spend my time, hustle and grind looking for the stuff that falls on my side of the line and I thoroughly enjoy the chase. Even if you collected 20 plus years ago, you had a line for your budget at the time and there are pieces you didn't buy because it was too expensive. We can lament all day how we coulda shoulda bought xyz but hindsight is 20/20 and it did not cause you not to enjoy the hobby then. The same applies today, even if the line has shifted. There were lines in the sand when art was "cheap" and there are lines in the sand today - the good thing is we get to set and change that line as priorities shift. IMHO, there are always good/great pieces of art within your grasp. Unstoppablejayd, Will_K, batman_fan and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xatari Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 3:45 PM, vodou said: ...but still have pay insurance and upkeep on? Even when you can't touch them or drive them, they're STILL money pits. vodou 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBerman Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Speaking as one of the "new collectors" (first purchase: 2019), I'm reconciled to collecting mainly newer material. So far my pages are about 40% pre-2000 and 60% post. I have more nostalgia for the 70s/80s material, but there have been plenty of great stories in the last 20 years, and, as has been noted, the art tends to be prettier in the decompression era, with larger panels and tighter, more detailed pencils. The price and availability are attractive as well. New School Fool and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 8:58 AM, pemart1966 said: Even when you can't touch them or drive them, they're STILL money pits. I stepped off the vintage European sports cars thing in the late 1990s for exactly that reason. Guess where all that money went instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rick2you2 Posted March 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 11:03 AM, vodou said: I stepped off the vintage European sports cars thing in the late 1990s for exactly that reason. Guess where all that money went instead? Theranos? Randall Dowling, John E., Will_K and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 On 3/8/2022 at 11:03 AM, vodou said: I stepped off the vintage European sports cars thing in the late 1990s for exactly that reason. Guess where all that money went instead? Cocaine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttock Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 1:39 PM, batman_fan said: You don’t think it would be cool to see the look on your friends faces when you tell them about the car you partially own but can’t drive or actually ever even touch? A guy I know bought a Lamborghini. He financed it over 12 years for $210K. He was telling me that I needed to buy one and it was such a great deal. The dealer told him that as long as he didn't put more than 500 or so miles on it a year he'd buy it back in 3 years for $170k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 9:20 PM, buttock said: A guy I know bought a Lamborghini. He financed it over 12 years for $210K. He was telling me that I needed to buy one and it was such a great deal. The dealer told him that as long as he didn't put more than 500 or so miles on it a year he'd buy it back in 3 years for $170k. I am not even going to ask if you bought one because you would think "wait, I could buy XYZ comics for that much money and keep driving my current car" tth2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buttock Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/9/2022 at 9:27 PM, batman_fan said: I am not even going to ask if you bought one because you would think "wait, I could buy XYZ comics for that much money and keep driving my current car" It's so true it hurts. batman_fan and tth2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Dowling Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 (edited) On 3/8/2022 at 10:03 AM, vodou said: I stepped off the vintage European sports cars thing in the late 1990s for exactly that reason. It was fun while it lasted... Edited March 10, 2022 by Randall Dowling Improvement vodou, batman_fan and tth2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/10/2022 at 12:20 PM, buttock said: A guy I know bought a Lamborghini. He financed it over 12 years for $210K. He was telling me that I needed to buy one and it was such a great deal. The dealer told him that as long as he didn't put more than 500 or so miles on it a year he'd buy it back in 3 years for $170k. I’m just a simple non-mathematically inclined lawyer, but this sounds like a terrible deal. buttock and Randall Dowling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExNihilo Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 On 3/6/2022 at 8:33 AM, Rick2you2 said: Which is the fault of the would-be new collectors, for not looking elsewhere, or perhaps not knowing where to look. Next time, point them in the right direction. Lot's of good Swamp Thing coming out at reasonable prices. They will (or should) thank you for it. As a new collector, my collecting aspirations are very narrow: I want art by artists of characters that resonate with me. It's why my first OA was a Ron Lim sketch of Silver Surfer. Why my first dealer purchase was a head shot of Wonder Woman by David Finch. It's generally creators doing the work that drew me to them in the first place. If not that, then it's pages from stories that I love. It's why my ultimate grail isn't Amazing Fantasy 15, it's Jim Lee cover art from his Batman run (and if not that, then an interior page, and if not that then cover art from Batman/Catwoman). New collectors could get some other modern art, but at least from my perspective, I didn't start buying OA to get something other than what I have my heart set on. I don't know how other new collectors feel, but just thought I'd put in my On 3/7/2022 at 12:39 PM, batman_fan said: You don’t think it would be cool to see the look on your friends faces when you tell them about the car you partially own but can’t drive or actually ever even touch? I dunno, my friends already look at me funny when I tell them I pay to have my books encased in a hard plastic shell so I can never touch or open them again. On 3/9/2022 at 8:20 PM, buttock said: A guy I know bought a Lamborghini. He financed it over 12 years for $210K. He was telling me that I needed to buy one and it was such a great deal. The dealer told him that as long as he didn't put more than 500 or so miles on it a year he'd buy it back in 3 years for $170k. I overheard a Lamborghini owner giving his honest opinion on what it's like owning a car to a casual gawker. He was relaying the story about how the dealership charged $750 for an oil change. He could have gone to the store and bought some premium oil himself for like $50, but according to him, the maintenance had to be done at a Lamborghini authorized dealership and they had to use the Lamborghini oil. The car is expensive, but the annual maintenance on a car that probably gets 500 miles a year is equally outrageous (and then there's the insurance). buttock 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
