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DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS spooky & mystical spoiler thread
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Started by Bosco685,

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Bosco685

Bosco685

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On 5/16/2022 at 8:06 AM, TupennyConan said:

There were plenty of issues with the movie.

Even with The Illuminati of 838 being so powerful it killed its Sorcerer Supreme so they were very familiar with sorcery and magic yet when Wanda shows up they land in front of her like a character in Deadpool doing a superhero landing?

superhero-landing-deadpool.gif.3c866bf2f4258f2b207bb5a069981bd4.gif

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Bosco685

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On 5/16/2022 at 8:18 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

Perfect fit for Superior Iron Man.

Exactly! Listening to the writer talk about it, this would have been very fitting to the story and the influences of The Illuminati story.

After Rumors Swirled Tom Cruise Could Be In Doctor Strange 2, Multiverse Of Madness Writer Explains What Actually Happened

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There are plenty of cool cameos in the Doctor Strange sequel, and they will have a major impact on the MCU moving forward. But Tom Cruise playing Iron Man wasn’t one of them. And screenwriter Michael Waldron told Rolling Stone during a recent interview that he suggested the idea, but was shut down. He said: 

 

"Yeah, that was totally made up. I mean, there's no cut footage of Tom Cruise. But I love Tom Cruise, and I said to [Marvel Studios president] Kevin [Feige] at one point, I was like, Could we get Tom Cruise's Iron Man? I remember reading about that in Ain't It Cool News back in the day, that Tom Cruise was going to be Iron Man."

 

Michael Waldron went on to say that Tom Cruise’s availability prevented him from cameoing in Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which makes sense given the fact that the actor was busy doing barrel rolls for Top Gun: Maverick, and also dreaming up new ways to push the stunt envelope for the two part Mission: Impossible movie, which we now know will be called Dead Reckoning.

They wanted him. Unfortunately, the availability timing was off.

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Buzzetta

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On 5/16/2022 at 8:11 AM, Bosco685 said:

Even with The Illuminati of 838 being so powerful it killed its Sorcerer Supreme so they were very familiar with sorcery and magic yet when Wanda shows up they land in front of her like a character in Deadpool doing a superhero landing?

 

I was thinking... 

It goes deeper than that as to how powerful they were. 

Consider that when they have the flashback of the Illuminati having defeated Thanos it shows his body laying limp on his home world.  This implies they were able to beat him on the very same planet where the Guardians, Iron Man, Dr. Strange, and Spider-man failed.  The Illuminati were able to take down Thanos powered by (what?) four infinity stones?  

Perhaps they got creative because the Ultron experiment was a success, there was no need for a Vision so the final stone was probably in their hands on that planet to fight Thanos with (speculation) and Strange had the fifth stone. 

The Illuminati was implied to be VERY powerful. 

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Bosco685

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On 5/16/2022 at 9:31 AM, Buzzetta said:

The Illuminati was implied to be VERY powerful. 

This is where people cut Marvel Studios excessive slack because it has been so dedicated to crafting a massive comic book universe (which I thoroughly enjoy many of the films).

But something about Phase IV just feels disjointed and confusing. Even if everything is building up to the Secret Wars Saga (including Secret Invasion) this doesn't feel like the well-crafted Infinity Saga.

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jsilverjanet

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On 5/16/2022 at 5:51 AM, TupennyConan said:

It is a fun movie. 

The Illuminati scene is the core issue.

exactly, the execution is what I think most are complaining about

the story could have been told without that part

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jsilverjanet

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On 5/16/2022 at 8:35 AM, Bosco685 said:

But something about Phase IV just feels disjointed and confusing. Even if everything is building up to the Secret Wars Saga (including Secret Invasion) this doesn't feel like the well-crafted Infinity Saga.

I've said this multiple times

they may have gotten t0o big and now have trouble making it all fit together

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John E.

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Hey fellas, I hope you don't mind me jumping in your conversation here.

I liked DS2 okay-- there was enough positives to the film to not make it the worse entry in the MCU. I agree with the pros and cons stated here.

The #1 thing I was looking forward to in the film was America Chavez and how Raimi handled her was a complete disappointment. She wasn't a character; she was a MacGuffin device.

I'm wondering if someone can help me figure out something here. Why was Doctor Strange so nice to America Chavez? Is it because she was the target of a kidnapping? Because she inadvertently sent her parents to another multiverse? I know that sounds like an obvious question I'm just trying to figure out what she did to earn his respect. She did bring trouble to his doorstep after all. On the other hand, Dr Strange is a jerk to Peter Parker in No Way Home. Peter, after all, in Infinity War, ditched his field trip to fight the Black Order, goes off-world as a stowaway with no idea what is waiting for him there, essentially Thanos, the most powerful being in the universe. Peter is then engaged in a fight with Thanos, holds his own I might add and almost takes the Gauntlet off if it wasn't for Star-Lord. So the team loses and Peter turns to dust for the next 5 years. He comes back, saves the world from Mysterio, only to have his identity as Peter Parker revealed to the world. He then goes to Dr Strange for help because his friends and family are now vulnerable (same sitch as America whose parents are lost in another multiverse), wherein Strange is pretty jerk-y to him. Strange then screws up the spell, blames Peter for it and is pretty mean about, tries to fix it by sending the Sinister Five back to their multiverses where they will meet their death. But in this film, he's trying to prevent death in his multiverse, and by extension others. You'd think Spider-Man has earned everyone's respect by now. Stephen Strange even makes some quip about the many "insect" named Avengers. And yet, America Chavez lifts his sling ring and it'a all "ha ha we're all good." It all just seems so very...strange.

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Buzzetta

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On 5/16/2022 at 10:29 AM, John E. said:

Hey fellas, I hope you don't mind me jumping in your conversation here.

I liked DS2 okay-- there was enough positives to the film to not make it the worse entry in the MCU. I agree with the pros and cons stated here.

The #1 thing I was looking forward to in the film was America Chavez and how Raimi handled her was a complete disappointment. She wasn't a character; she was a MacGuffin device.

I'm wondering if someone can help me figure out something here. Why was Doctor Strange so nice to America Chavez? Is it because she was the target of a kidnapping? Because she inadvertently sent her parents to another multiverse? I know that sounds like an obvious question I'm just trying to figure out what she did to earn his respect. She did bring trouble to his doorstep after all. On the other hand, Dr Strange is a jerk to Peter Parker in No Way Home. Peter, after all, in Infinity War, ditched his field trip to fight the Black Order, goes off-world as a stowaway with no idea what is waiting for him there, essentially Thanos, the most powerful being in the universe. Peter is then engaged in a fight with Thanos, holds his own I might add and almost takes the Gauntlet off if it wasn't for Star-Lord. So the team loses and Peter turns to dust for the next 5 years. He comes back, saves the world from Mysterio, only to have his identity as Peter Parker revealed to the world. He then goes to Dr Strange for help because his friends and family are now vulnerable (same sitch as America whose parents are lost in another multiverse), wherein Strange is pretty jerk-y to him. Strange then screws up the spell, blames Peter for it and is pretty mean about, tries to fix it by sending the Sinister Five back to their multiverses where they will meet their death. But in this film, he's trying to prevent death in his multiverse, and by extension others. You'd think Spider-Man has earned everyone's respect by now. Stephen Strange even makes some quip about the many "insect" named Avengers. And yet, America Chavez lifts his sling ring and it'a all "ha ha we're all good." It all just seems so very...strange.

I thought about this as well. 

Originally I believe that Dr. Strange was scheduled for release before Spider-Man NWH so some lines might have been mistakenly left in.  That's not an excuse but more of an explanation.  However, perhaps he helped her because of how he treated Peter in NWH and then realized that Peter was more than worthy of Strange's respect if not admiration as seen through Peter's sacrifice at the end of NWH to set things right. 

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valiantman

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On 5/16/2022 at 9:33 AM, jsilverjanet said:
On 5/16/2022 at 9:29 AM, John E. said:

Why was Doctor Strange so nice to America Chavez?

I attributed it to the connection of the nightmares (they are real) and the other strange letting her down

Right - he saw her in the dreams and then she's there.  She's a focus of his interest, not a nuisance in his way.

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theCapraAegagrus

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On 5/16/2022 at 10:33 AM, Buzzetta said:

I thought about this as well. 

Originally I believe that Dr. Strange was scheduled for release before Spider-Man NWH so some lines might have been mistakenly left in.  That's not an excuse but more of an explanation.  However, perhaps he helped her because of how he treated Peter in NWH and then realized that Peter was more than worthy of Strange's respect if not admiration as seen through Peter's sacrifice at the end of NWH to set things right. 

He doesn't know who Peter Parker is, though.

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John E.

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On 5/16/2022 at 9:33 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I attributed it to the connection of the nightmares (they are real) and the other strange letting her down

 

On 5/16/2022 at 10:18 AM, valiantman said:

Right - he saw her in the dreams and then she's there.  She's a focus of his interest, not a nuisance in his way.

That’s right; I forgot about the dream connection. 

 

On 5/16/2022 at 10:17 AM, TupennyConan said:

If America Chavez is merely a plot device, then she's a terrific one.  

Yes, I liked her and want to see more of her. And soon, not just years from now. I just wanted to see her do more than just running away or be trapped in a jar like a bug. I know she finally comes around to showing off her powers at the end but it came a little too late for me. 

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Buzzetta

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On 5/16/2022 at 11:50 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

He doesn't know who Peter Parker is, though.

But doesn't he know who Spider-man is?  I cannot help but wonder if it works the way it did in the comics in that they know of Spider-man and they think they know something but when they try and think of what he looks like or who he is that they cannot fully envision it. 

In the comics it worked this way unless Peter revealed his identity again. 

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