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C2E2 Variant Drama
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Started by fastballspecial,

4,556 posts in this topic

ExNihilo

ExNihilo

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2022 at 5:17 AM, WolverineX said:

TLDR version of the last 24 hrs please.  I can't keep up...

I went to bed and woke up to 11 brand new pages.  :tonofbricks:

On 8/11/2022 at 5:49 AM, Galen130 said:

Someone clued me in to this thread yesterday, so I thought I’d sit down with my coffee and read through the entire thing.  I only read the first page yesterday and figured I’d catch up today.

Then I realized that I don’t care enough about these shenanigans anyway to waste valuable time I could use for something productive.  It all proves what I’ve been saying for awhile…the comic industry has turned into another money grab, like Disney and the MCU.  I’m of the mindset….what goes around, comes around.

Okay, I’ve got nothing better to do today, so I better get started.  I don’t know where I’m going, but I can’t wait to get there. (thumbsu

Here endeth my opinion.  :shy:

There's a summary on page 79 (or thereabouts)

On 8/11/2022 at 7:53 AM, Prince Namor said:

We have a lot of arm chair lawyers in this forum. Luckily though, we also have a lot of ACTUAL lawyers. 

I imagine the lawyers never imagined their expertise would be used in this forum.  I can see them cracking their knuckles going "my time to shine" and then typing out the legal jargon/explanations on the board.  :insane:

On 8/11/2022 at 8:07 AM, Prince Namor said:

Oh boy...

Screen Shot 2022-08-11 at 11.05.59 AM.png

Screen Shot 2022-08-11 at 11.06.18 AM.png

I saw that and the 10% and immediately reported it to eBay.  What a load of acetate.

On 8/11/2022 at 8:52 AM, Axelrod said:

So, maybe this is way past the point of being relevant, but I was confused what, exactly Blag Flag's version of this comic was.  It's not the reprint.  And it's not the "regular" facsimile edition, but it is some kind of special "store exclusive" facsimile edition, that Black Flag was able to commission, which has slightly different artwork and has Black Flag's store logo on the back?  And this was produced by Marvel.

And any store can get their own "exclusive" variants as long as they are ordering at least 3000 copies?  Or is it maybe just certain stores/businesses that have a relationship with Marvel?

So, they had their own exclusive variant already, but, they didn't sell out of the original 3000 they ordered.  And so, someone had the idea to juice up the remaining stock (or at least 750 copies of it) with this acetone cover and make an "even-more-exclusive" exclusive out of it?  

And people went nuts over this?  

Yeah, you've got the right idea.  Any store can get an exclusive variant.  All they do is pay to commission an artist, pay the fee to the publisher, and then purchase a minimum.  In this case, I'm guessing they split the cost with other shops as KRS and 7Ate9 have the variant listed on their website as well.  Black Flag though appears to have decided to add the acetate to their unsold stock.

Edited by ExNihilo
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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

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On 8/11/2022 at 10:32 AM, DrunkWooky said:
On 8/11/2022 at 9:58 AM, Mike's Rack said:

Hey!  “How am I supposed to charge for this when you are giving it out for free?”

Sorry. Legal market's competitive nowadays. Gotta give your users a free sample now to get them hooked. 

965834975_1mBF(1).gif.00036d9f2d8fef9d1edfcd2224bc10bc.gif

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theCapraAegagrus

theCapraAegagrus

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:09 PM, Axelrod said:

I don't really even understand the comparison to "Bad Idea" in that, my understanding is that was clearly a joke product.  

I get people were concerned by the fact that Bad Idea got to dictate what grades went on the "joke" invisible books, but, really, it's not at all comparable I don't think.  

A company's integrity should not be flaunted as a joke, unless the company themself believes that their lack of integrity is to be laughed at.

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Sigur Ros

Sigur Ros

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:00 PM, A. Schaeffer said:

I would argue this is a unique situation compared to something like the Bad Idea cover only book. Here you have what is legit a bootleg by the very definition skirting the rules of anything else classified as bootleg, without publisher (marvel/disney) consent. Other people pointed out a line of variants called "museum editions" that are the same thing but those are rejected from grading. 
There could be no consequence to this like you said, but if you're an impartial third party grading service credibility would be a major asset worth protecting..I would think...
But I'm just one customer sending books seeing this unfold with a raised eyebrow., not some mass dealer or anything. 

I gotcha.  I'm just speaking from the business/"let's start submitting our own" point of view. 

Yes, Bad Idea was a legit gimmick, direct from the publisher, where this seems more like a bootleg.  But if CGC accepts it because a legit retailer put on a legit artist's cover, maybe they felt this was a legitimate item to grade. 

I wonder if I could have said legit more...

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bc

bc

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On 8/11/2022 at 1:09 PM, Axelrod said:

I don't really even understand the comparison to "Bad Idea" in that, my understanding is that was clearly a joke product.  

I get people were concerned by the fact that Bad Idea got to dictate what grades went on the "joke" invisible books, but, really, it's not at all comparable I don't think.  

Bad Idea got to dictate the grades for invisible books.

Black Flag got to dictate the grades for manufactured frankenbooks.

Its FUBAR either way and shows a pattern of lack of brand integrity.

-bc

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
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On 8/11/2022 at 10:38 AM, DrunkWooky said:

I think Georgia or Alabama: "huffing glue counts."  Georgia or Alabama: "Alright, everybody, yes huffing solvents counts as driving under the influence. Please settle down!"

airplane-lloyd-bridges.gif.32b276ed109c75a04ab15ce7e1a47886.gif

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DR.X

DR.X

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Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2022 at 11:23 AM, FFB said:
On 8/11/2022 at 11:14 AM, Dr. Balls said:

It’s kinda hard to stay up to speed on this thread, it’s got some serious Friday thread momentum.

And as an aside, the acronym FFB on our restaurant tickets applies to cooking bacon completely burnt and crispy: Fry the F&$@ outta the Bacon: FFB

lol

Now GoCollect has added some fuel to the fire.

https://blog.gocollect.com/is-this-c2e2-ultimate-fallout-crain-acetate-variant-a-bootleg/

Wow, glad I never collected variants. Just rare Eastern Color File copies. :fear:

Edited by DR.X
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Lord Gemini

Lord Gemini

Posted
Posted
On 8/11/2022 at 10:46 AM, Prince Namor said:

I was explaining a variant to a guy once, who actually bought comics for 'reading', and as I explained it, he was looking extremely puzzled. He then said, "So it's the same comic, it just has a different cover?"

I chuckled and said, "Yep. That's about right."

He said, "That don't sound like a good deal at all."

People can make fun of the Midwest all they want (this was Indiana), but that is spot on logic there. 

No, it's a difference of opinion as to what people want. I like cool art as well as a good story, and if I like a variant, I'll get it. I don't see why people can't let others like what they like without the condescension.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 8/11/2022 at 11:12 AM, theCapraAegagrus said:

A company's integrity should not be flaunted as a joke, unless the company themself believes that their lack of integrity is to be laughed at.

Top Ten Post of the Year candidate right here.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2022 at 11:16 AM, Lord Gemini said:

No, it's a difference of opinion as to what people want. I like cool art as well as a good story, and if I like a variant, I'll get it. I don't see why people can't let others like what they like without the condescension.

Probably because the very existence of those variants trample upon concepts like integrity and decency for the sole purpose of fleecing people out of their money.

I don’t believe it’s a matter of “what I collect is cool, what you collect sucks”. Collecting variants propagates hugely negative attitudes in the hobby because they are manufactured collectibles - not actual naturally-occuring collectibles that find their own audience. Variants audiences are forced, manufactured and performative in order to promote them.

Edited by Dr. Balls
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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
Posted
On 8/11/2022 at 12:00 PM, A. Schaeffer said:

Other people pointed out a line of variants called "museum editions" that are the same thing but those are rejected from grading. 

Those were graded at one point and the competition still does. 

CGC stopped grading them due to the large cover overhang and the fact they get pretty damaged from this overhang.  

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Lord Gemini

Lord Gemini

Posted
Posted
On 8/11/2022 at 12:26 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Probably because the very existence of those variants trample upon concepts like integrity and decency for the sole purpose of fleecing people out of their money.

I don’t believe it’s a matter of “what I collect is cool, what you collect sucks”. Collecting variants propagates hugely negative attitudes in the hobby because they are manufactured collectibles - not actually organically-developed collectibles. 

Trample upon integrity and decency? :eyeroll: You don't want to buy them? Don't buy them.

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Skwerl

Skwerl

Posted
Posted
On 8/11/2022 at 5:38 AM, DrunkWooky said:

What if I told you it could be BOTH a breach of the license AND copyright infringement?

Something could be both. This is only one of those things though. So I would tell you that you're wrong.

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onlyweaknesskryptonite

onlyweaknesskryptonite

Posted
Posted
On 8/11/2022 at 12:09 PM, Axelrod said:

I don't really even understand the comparison to "Bad Idea" in that, my understanding is that was clearly a joke product.  

I get people were concerned by the fact that Bad Idea got to dictate what grades went on the "joke" invisible books, but, really, it's not at all comparable I don't think.  

Biggest correlation with this and those was the grade assignment.  Both of these have even grade distributions which reinforces the idea that CGC will sell a specific grade. 

Joke or not it spits in the face of the customers who have been paying for impartiality. 

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