C2E2 Variant Drama 25 25

[ExNihilo]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:36 PM, Monstertruck97 said:

I went to the store, returned and missed forty posts. Can't wait for tomorrow!

Youtube influencers selling kinda funny shirt. 30 dollars.

Damn, I'd pay to have that printed and overnighted to wear to a con.  :P

[Still Only 35c]

Can't believe this mess and that CGC, Clayton Crain have taken a stance on this and both alongside those said influencers have all lost my respect. 

This C2E2 book isn't a variant, it's a bootleg/unofficial item! The Stray Dogs example CGC used to justify their actions here was an official product. CGC should recall the grades and books.

In terms of Black Flag, everyone should vote with their feet and not entertain these Frankenbooks. 

[ExNihilo]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:46 PM, Every Day A Story said:

In terms of Black Flag, everyone should vote with their feet and not entertain these Frankenbooks. 

I'd prefer if people voted with their hands and mouth by pointing and laughing as they walked past the Black Flag booth.

[TTony]

Wow, talk about opening up all the inner workings of what's going on.  WhatNot paying vendors to sell there?

On 8/11/2022 at 5:20 PM, Troy Division said:

Has anyone posted this yet?
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/who-are-infinite-black-of-the-black-flag-comics-acetate-covers/

Quote from the article -
But who are Infinite Black who are named on the cover?
What's their deal? Infinite Black Publishing is a comic book publisher, 

Dun Dun Dunnnnnnn!!!!!

On 8/11/2022 at 7:09 PM, Bob Sacamano said:

If you want to force Marvel’s hand, as someone noted, just get a viral tweet going that they are displaying an incorrectly folded flag on “their variant cover.”  It’s a disgrace to our veterans!

I think taking this to Twitter would definitely get Marvels attention.

On 8/11/2022 at 7:16 PM, Domo Arigato said:

As long as it's a CGC 0.5 copy.

Apparently, the CGC 10's are common as dirt.

 

10's are not THAT common... only 10% are 10's!

[Cat]

I really hope there's a big line tomorrow, and then someone pushes their way to the front just as the booth opens. No, it's not a self-important narcissistic 'iNfLuEnCeR', it's Marvel's lawyer slapping them with an immediate Cease And Desist. 

[Domo Arigato]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:50 AM, TTony said:

10's are not THAT common... only 10% are 10's!

How many are 0.5's?

 

[godzilla43]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:50 AM, TTony said:

 

 

$500/month seems pretty low but maybe some WhatNot sellers get even more(and some of course nothing). Anyways this makes that "reason" of selling con-variants to cover some of the cost of going there not valid because these WhatNot influencer sellers are getting their expenses to go there covered by WhatNot. 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/12/2022 at 12:50 AM, ExNihilo said:

On 8/12/2022 at 12:46 AM, Every Day A Story said:

In terms of Black Flag, everyone should vote with their feet and not entertain these Frankenbooks. 

I'd prefer if people voted with their hands and mouth by pointing and laughing as they walked past the Black Flag booth.

+1 

The whole crowd should look like this guy.

[MyNameIsLegion]

so, let me ask a perfectly innocent question about grading. If the original book was not inclined to grade so highly, leading to speculation that the was a pay for grade thing: because an acetate cover was added to the book, and then graded, is the acetate cover now the cover that's graded, and the original cover is not subject to the same grading criteria because now it's considered part of the interior? Is this the real CGC-hack to get a blue label? An acetate cover of course can get a higher grade because it's not paper. 

[TTony]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:57 PM, ExNihilo said:

So who's going to Fan Expo Boston tomorrow?

If anyone finds a YT live, please link here.  

On 8/11/2022 at 10:36 PM, Monstertruck97 said:

I went to the store, returned and missed forty posts. Can't wait for tomorrow!

Youtube influencers selling kinda funny shirt. 30 dollars.

Who else wants multiple copies of the same book besides a reseller, flipper or influencer?  Maybe a hoarder?  

 

On 8/11/2022 at 11:04 PM, Cat said:

I really hope there's a big line tomorrow, and then someone pushes their way to the front just as the booth opens. No, it's not a self-important narcissistic 'iNfLuEnCeR', it's Marvel's lawyer slapping them with an immediate Cease And Desist. 

I would chip in to a gofundme if someone would cut the line and get it on video

 

On 8/11/2022 at 11:22 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

+1 

The whole crowd should look like this guy.

Yes!  Nothing gets things going like a crowd of protesters.

[ComicsAndCode]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:39 PM, kav said:

Dang I tried talking about this with some friends at the coffeeshop but everyone just started edging away from me-

Man if I brought this up to family and friends, it'll end up with them asking me why I'm still in this hobby. I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

[TTony]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:37 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

so, let me ask a perfectly innocent question about grading. If the original book was not inclined to grade so highly, leading to speculation that the was a pay for grade thing: because an acetate cover was added to the book, and then graded, is the acetate cover now the cover that's graded, and the original cover is not subject to the same grading criteria because now it's considered part of the interior? Is this the real CGC-hack to get a blue label? An acetate cover of course can get a higher grade because it's not paper. 

Even if true, the odds of three times in a row (and the first three times doing this) getting one 10.0, three 9.9's and the rest 9.8's is impossible.

[kav]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, ComicsAndCode said:

Man if I brought this up to family and friends, it'll end up with them asking me why I'm still in this hobby. I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

[MGH]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:46 PM, Every Day A Story said:

Can't believe this mess and that CGC, Clayton Crain have taken a stance on this and both alongside those said influencers have all lost my respect. 

This C2E2 book isn't a variant, it's a bootleg/unofficial item! The Stray Dogs example CGC used to justify their actions here was an official product. CGC should recall the grades and books.

In terms of Black Flag, everyone should vote with their feet and not entertain these Frankenbooks. 

As this grows and grows I have gone from giving Clayton crain benefit ofthe doubt to realising he is likely just as complicit with what went down 

After that latest  bleeding cool story seems like plan was a mass publicity stunt and book drive for their own new self published works, using their left over marvel stock as the  vehicle for said publicity and quick highly speculative buck. 

Why oh why did CGC board that train when all can see the tracks  lead off a cliff 

Edited August 12, 2022 by MGH

[ExNihilo]

On 8/11/2022 at 11:52 PM, MGH said:

As this grows and grows I have gone from giving Clayton crain benefit ofthe doubt to realising he is likely just as complicit with what went down 

After that latest  bleeding cool story seems like plan was a mass publicity stunt and book drive for their own new self published works, using their left over marvel stock as the  vehicle for said publicity and quick highly speculative buck. 

Why oh why did CGC board that train when all can see the tracks  lead off a cliff 

Clayton canceling his C2E2 appearance and now his Boston appearance is not a good look, even if he has a legitimate reason.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/12/2022 at 1:49 AM, kav said:

On 8/12/2022 at 1:44 AM, ComicsAndCode said:

Man if I brought this up to family and friends, it'll end up with them asking me why I'm still in this hobby. I really don't want to go down that rabbit hole.

FTFY..

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:06 AM, ExNihilo said:

Clayton canceling his C2E2 appearance and now his Boston appearance is not a good look, even if he has a legitimate reason.

 he probably actually has a paid PR rep who is telling him not to appear. 

Unlike Black Flag who does their own shameless self promotion..

[Get Marwood & I]

On 8/12/2022 at 8:07 AM, Domo Arigato said:

This thread is less than six days old.

It's 115 pages long.

It has more than 2,300 replies, with over 85,000 views.

As some point, you'd think the people and companies involved in this would have to realize....."We f***ed up".

 

I'm sure they have, it's more a case of what they do about it.

Companies pay their leaders a healthy wage as the buck ultimately stops with them and it is their responsibility to take the rough with the smooth. A lot of people are tagging CGC Mike for an update but he wouldn't have had anything to do with this and likely has his hands tied. So we're piling the pressure on the wrong people. 

If we feel strongly enough about the very serious accusations that are being made here and elsewhere, we should put pressure on those at the top. The last time I looked, Matt Nelson was President of CGC. It's his responsibility to respond to this, if so, not employees like Mike who are being put in an impossible position. 

Let's all write to Matt. He's the President of CGC. He should answer to the accusations being made here.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/12/2022 at 2:22 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

I'm sure they have, it's more a case of what they do about it.

Companies pay their leaders a healthy wage as the buck ultimately stops with them and it is their responsibility to take the rough with the smooth. A lot of people are tagging CGC Mike for an update but he wouldn't have had anything to do with this and likely has his hands tied. So we're piling the pressure on the wrong people. 

If we feel strongly enough about the very serious accusations that are being made here and elsewhere, we should put pressure on those at the top. The last time I looked, Matt Nelson was President of CGC. It's his responsibility to respond to this, if so, not employees like Mike who are being put in an impossible position. 

Let's all write to Matt. He's the President of CGC. He should answer to the accusation of grade selling.

Very good point.

@Matt Nelson

[Marbleman3]

Another lurker here, long time collector -  long time lurker too. I really do apologize for the lengthy post, I know everyone is busy and time is precious, so who needs another very long post, and there’s lots of jokes and fun repetition on this chain, which I think is fun to read and great to see honestly. I am just compelled to write something and share with you all my thoughts and experiences with this shameful controversy because this hobby is my passion and I have benefited immensely from this community and from CGC’s existence. I dabble in purchasing CGC slabs, but never actually directly submitted myself. My general view at the end of the day was that CGC and similar companies (even if not perfect) were doing a good thing pushing this hobby forward by creating something akin to a commodities market and providing stability to a hobby that sorely needed it post-Wizard and the ‘00s. I respected all of that and would support it silently with my wallet.  

I’m glad all of this is coming to light with a higher profile book, shop and artist, like Crain and newly-coined-in-my-mind “Trash Flag”. I’m a big Miracleman collector and have been annoyed and frustrated for years (!) at the inconsistency of grading those New Dimension stamped copies as blue label slabs. That had always seemed to me as having been swept under the rug and would only come up now and again in my Miracleman internet searches, but never as the focus of real anger from this community, more like a curiosity.  Maybe I missed the boat when that first occurred, but it didn’t seem like anyone cared about much about New Dimension and CGC both ignoring the obvious before this, and maybe people still don’t. And it wasn’t worth getting too upset in my view at the time because it didn’t seem like it would become common practice in the grading industry.

But I can’t be silent on this. This whole grading system isn’t complex math, it isn’t rocket science. These are simple and logical standards set forth by CGC and other grading companies with any brain power, essentially from day one. If anyone (ANYONE!) alters a comic after it’s initially published/produced, it receives a different label from generic blue (previously generic red) to indicate an alteration so consumers can spot the difference. This is just intuitive. You could put 10 children in a room for an hour to come up with basic rules about comic book grading and they would choose that as rule number one. I know there is more than one issue stemming from this convention, but this is the one at the forefront of my mind

You have a company touting that it’s blue label slabs stand for one thing and customers and others rely on that to spend a significant amount of money for that label. If truly created in the way being reported, these blue slab acetates would be bootlegs produced PURPOSELY to deceive. There is no other way to describe it. None.

It’s so sad it has come to this. It also a shame the Better Business Bureau has no teeth.  People may start considering other resources apart from posting on social media and writing articles because if all of this is true, there is a level of deception here that no one should tolerate if they respect the truth. And this is a hobby that is focused on the details. Ebay is a for-profit company, as are the other grading companies, and they are, at the end of the day, only concerned with their own economic and shareholder interests, so they may not be the only ones in a position to resolve matters. 

This forum is incredible and you are all amazing for keeping the momentum going, but I think you need to primarily speak with your wallets as you continue to spread accurate information, as you have been doing.  CGC has been bought and is managed by an investment firm. These entities are profit-oriented and major change is most likely going to occur by (1) keeping up the social media impact, because that is currently how the comic hobby thrives and shares information, and (2) stop feeding this company money if you disagree with current practices until real change occurs.

I don’t know anything about @cgcMike other than he seems to be the point of contact at the moment, but I hope he continues to push this forum’s messaging over to his bosses to effect REAL CHANGE. Agreed on starting to contact others in the organization who have more or real control on policy change. This is pathetic customer service and none of you subscribers, investors or collectors deserve this after all of your time and investment in CGC, which up until now seems to have been a generally solid company all things considered. Honestly not even the private investors in CGC deserve this if they were not a part of this decision making - I would bet there are major concerns and talks going on at the moment, although that is speculation. What I am sure of is my social group will reconsider spending with CGC, even though no one else will blast this over social media because that is just not everyone’s way.

Minimum next step from CGC should be an APOLOGY and AT LEAST an attempt to recall these slabs. To have these slabs on the CGC census (including the 20-30+ yr old Miracleman New Dimension stamped joke slabs) is an affront to the hobby and collecting community. As mentioned many times, this is what CGC chooses to take a stand on? Is nothing respected or sacred anymore? A true failure - would love to read their internal code of ethics policy, if there is one. Don’t get me started on black flag who I will not purchase from again until they get their heads straight.  Just pathetic.  I can’t speak to Crain, as I really enjoy his art and hope he was not involved in this, but I’m sure it’s not a great look for him. Influencers who planned this with CGC and black flag? Shame on you. Those who didn’t (and who did?), please donate any funds from any crap sales to LEGIT charities or orgs.  LEGIT. Do your diligence please.

These are my (very lengthy) two cents.  It’s possible people here may take issue with some of the above. My intent is only to help the community I love.  I love collecting comics and I want to make change and most times I feel powerless because I’m just one person with an internet connection, but I have a brain and I have a wallet. Happy to interact further. Let’s keep it civil if you disagree. 

I’m so, so disappointed in CGC - a place I once dreamed I could support one day maybe even by becoming a grader.  Maybe some day when they get their heads straight. Thank you all for reading.

Edited August 12, 2022 by Marbleman3