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C2E2 Variant Drama
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Started by fastballspecial,

4,556 posts in this topic

Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 8/11/2022 at 7:16 PM, Troy Division said:

Refresh my memory, but doesn't CGC have legal representation that also posts as a boardee?
I'd love to get their thoughts on all of this...if someone could share their board name so we can tag them...

@LawyerMcLawyerface

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

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On 8/12/2022 at 9:56 AM, FFB said:

Richie, maybe you and some of the other large retailers who are also Overstreet advisors and CGC member dealers could write an open letter to CGC with everyone's name on it.  That would be hard to ignore.  

While I appreciate the sentiment, I promise you that those of us who have reached out have already been ignored as part of the rabble-rousers on the chat boards.

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eddly

eddly

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On 8/12/2022 at 9:24 AM, wardevil0 said:

The inaccurate American flags were added AFTER Marvel approved the artwork for the variant, which was basically Clayton Crane imitating the original UF4 cover.  

The average consumer realizes that?

Even CGC doesn't recognize that there were two stages of manufacturing.

Edited by eddly
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jaybuck43

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On 8/12/2022 at 11:15 AM, Gonzimodo said:

I just want to reiterate how ridiculous (and somewhat insulting) it is that the American flag is drawn incorrectly (white stripes on edges instead of red) on the back and that the folded flag on the acetate is drawn incorrectly, with the stripes peeking out from the folds.  I really didn't expect such amateurish work from Clayton Crain if he's really the one responsible for that.  Everything about this book is a clown show.  I can't wait to see what today brings. :popcorn:

In fairness (I want to vomit for saying that) Flag Code rules require that the book not depict the flag correctly.  For instance in the ASM 583 Variant, the Future President is shown against a flag with only 9 stripes.  So I would actually expect them to mis-depict the flag, which is the highest honor you can give the flag (since its not supposed to be depicted on any product)

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 8/11/2022 at 8:17 PM, Beige said:

Explain how they got 1 x 10, 3 x 9.9 etc etc from 10 books (or whatever it was) when the original book - ULTIMATE FALLOUT #4 - had exactly 0 in 10.0 and 0 in 9.9 - out of OVER 14,000 BOOKS.

 

 

image.png.f6d2eeef65651d8a59fc7138624dea29.png

This needs to be reposted on every single page of this thread.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2022 at 9:25 AM, MrBedrock said:

I promise you that those of us who have reached out have already been ignored as part of the rabble-rousers on the chat boards.

Probably because people who get caught doing something unethical like to be quietly admonished in the privacy of their own conference room, with snacks and coffee. Damn rabble-rousers with their wanting corporations to not screw over their customers and whatnot.

Edited by Dr. Balls
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jaybuck43

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On 8/12/2022 at 11:39 AM, Broke as a Joke said:

The original book was the Ultimate Fallout 4 facsimile copy which Black Flag had Clayton Crain do an ugly variant of.  Not sure the census on that particular version.  

This is from my thread...

On 8/11/2022 at 4:11 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Heck even the Ultimate Fallout book that we're all talking about is suspect.  1 10, 5 9.9s and 4 9.8s out of 10 submitted.  However, not counting those 10 we have 3,218 Ultimate Fallout 4 Facsimile's  that have been submitted since 2021 when it was published.  3,218.  Not one copy, not one single one has graded higher than a 9.8.  0/3218.  FIVE!!!! of the 10 graded higher than 9.8 on the acetate edition?!  50% of their books are perfect?  AGAIN, on a book that was manhandled after it was printed.

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wardevil0

wardevil0

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On 8/12/2022 at 11:26 AM, eddly said:

The average consumer realizes that?

Even CGC doesn't recognize that there were two stages of manufacturing.

   On 8/12/2022 at 11:15 AM, Gonzimodo said:

I just want to reiterate how ridiculous (and somewhat insulting) it is that the American flag is drawn incorrectly (white stripes on edges instead of red) on the back and that the folded flag on the acetate is drawn incorrectly, with the stripes peeking out from the folds.  I really didn't expect such amateurish work from Clayton Crain if he's really the one responsible for that.  Everything about this book is a clown show.  I can't wait to see what today brings. :popcorn:

Comic says Marvel on it, this is Marvel's incompetence as well.

 

 

True, but in this sense Marvel is potentially a victim of having their product altered in the aftermarket, and not a party to this particular round of incompetence.

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FFB

FFB

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On 8/12/2022 at 8:41 AM, jaybuck43 said:

This is from my thread...

Yes, this is the relevant comparison - the UF4 facsimile edition.  Or even the Clayton Crane variant cover pre-acetate.  But the original 2011 1st print is not a relevant comparison because of how it was packaged, how much older it is, and the fact that it was not a hot book with many submissions for a few years after it was published.  

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Gonzimodo

Gonzimodo

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On 8/12/2022 at 11:31 AM, jaybuck43 said:

In fairness (I want to vomit for saying that) Flag Code rules require that the book not depict the flag correctly.  For instance in the ASM 583 Variant, the Future President is shown against a flag with only 9 stripes.  So I would actually expect them to mis-depict the flag, which is the highest honor you can give the flag (since its not supposed to be depicted on any product)

You know, I hadn't considered that, and that seems correct, at least for the red vs. white stripes issue.  I'm not sure if that applies to the folded flag, but if they really thought it through, that could have been intentional, too.  Good catch! (thumbsu

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Gary Strange

Gary Strange

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On 8/12/2022 at 10:31 AM, jaybuck43 said:

In fairness (I want to vomit for saying that) Flag Code rules require that the book not depict the flag correctly.  For instance in the ASM 583 Variant, the Future President is shown against a flag with only 9 stripes.  So I would actually expect them to mis-depict the flag, which is the highest honor you can give the flag (since its not supposed to be depicted on any product)

If you really get into the flag codes, it should never have been used in the artwork at all.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 8/12/2022 at 3:00 AM, williamblood said:

they have addressed it more or less, they stand by what they have done, sacrificed a part cgc brand for short term profits. and i dont know why, do they think these stores will stop grading books?

I think the biggest curiosity is that the monetary payout for undertaking pay-for-grades wasn't really that high.

Unless...

This is something that happens so frequently, it's considered policy to sell grades - to which an episode like this is only brought to light because they got caught. I mean, a few thousand dollars in the pocket of a multi-million dollar company for these C2E2 books is not worth the risk - unless it's not a risk, but normal operation.

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Dr. Balls

Dr. Balls

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On 8/12/2022 at 9:49 AM, A. Schaeffer said:

I would say it's straight out of the 90's school of graphic design but I can't even come up with a period example as bad tbh. Wild they said Clayton Crain designed it. 
 

I was in design school in the 90's - and I agree. lol

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Gonzimodo

Gonzimodo

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On 8/12/2022 at 11:26 AM, eddly said:

The average consumer realizes that?

Even CGC doesn't recognize that there were two stages of manufacturing.

That appears to be the underlying issue that could put Black Flag in breach of contract (or whatever) with Marvel.  A lot of people, with good reason, initially thought this was a legitimate Marvel-endorsed exclusive, not a legitimate Marvel -endorsed exclusive with a stupid acetate cover later stapled onto it.

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