How is this even possible. Book was submitted and replaced entirely. CGC error 8 8

[Qalyar]

On 9/29/2022 at 5:53 PM, jsilverjanet said:

there are mistakes and then there are mistakes

if errors like this are happening on a consistent basis, your operation needs an overhaul

Exactly. It sucks when they flub a 2nd printing, or swap two books from a single submission. Or even when human error damages a book in their possession. We are right to complain about all such things, no matter the frequency, because an authentication and certification service should strive for perfection. But it's still good to remember that people are people and a few of those types of events are likely inevitable; the goal is to minimize them and have a means to mitigate their ongoing effects.

This event isn't at all excusable, because it implies that each submitters' books are not being properly segregated. Blue label instead of green, yeah, that's a problem, but literally a different customer's book swapped into the case in its place? That's worrisome. Presumably, this means that somewhere between the grading floor and encapsulation, books are not being containerized by submission, but instead... what? Bandied about in big stacks? I really don't know. The worst thing is that this instantly makes every claim of "this book is misgraded because CGC swapped it out for a different copy!" suddenly seem more plausible.

[Sigur Ros]

.

[universal soldier]

  

[shadroch]

On 9/29/2022 at 4:04 PM, Qalyar said:

Exactly. It sucks when they flub a 2nd printing, or swap two books from a single submission. Or even when human error damages a book in their possession. We are right to complain about all such things, no matter the frequency, because an authentication and certification service should strive for perfection. But it's still good to remember that people are people and a few of those types of events are likely inevitable; the goal is to minimize them and have a means to mitigate their ongoing effects.

This event isn't at all excusable, because it implies that each submitters' books are not being properly segregated. Blue label instead of green, yeah, that's a problem, but literally a different customer's book swapped into the case in its place? That's worrisome. Presumably, this means that somewhere between the grading floor and encapsulation, books are not being containerized by submission, but instead... what? Bandied about in big stacks? I really don't know. The worst thing is that this instantly makes every claim of "this book is misgraded because CGC swapped it out for a different copy!" suddenly seem more plausible.

Why would you have any confidence your book will be graded, encapsulated, and shipped back problem-free?

[Qalyar]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:33 PM, shadroch said:

Why would you have any confidence your book will be graded, encapsulated, and shipped back problem-free?

Increasingly, it seems that submissions are simply playing the numbers game. Most of them do go off without a problem, but things like this are very much cause to reconsider.

[Bird]

I used to be (much more) naive and perhaps I am too cynical to think that outright theft is the most likely answer. So I guess I should give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it isn't outright theft by a cgc employee and gross incompetence is the answer

[D2]

I will keep everyone up to speed with what’s happening. 
 

So far no one from CGC has reached back. 

I am hoping it’s because everyone is scratching their heads wondering what to respond back with. 

[D2]

On 9/29/2022 at 8:16 PM, Bird said:

I used to be (much more) naive and perhaps I am too cynical to think that outright theft is the most likely answer. So I guess I should give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it isn't outright theft by a cgc employee and gross incompetence is the answer

I am afraid it’s theft. 
Only because of how wildly wrong this seems to be. 
I just struggle if it’s theft because it’s not that special of a book. It’s special to me, and there’s a big story behind the John Byrne and Chris Claremont signatures in specific. 
I can’t see why someone would want this book enough to steal it while at work. 

[CGC Mike]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:51 PM, Qalyar said:

Mike, I know you can't and won't be commenting on internal processes, but after you tell the QA department to roll some heads, you should ALSO tell your bosses that there's a serious workflow problem somewhere in the operation, because there's zero reason why this should even be possible unless books are not being handled the way that we've all been assured they are.

I haven't had time to compile examples for a few weeks but, there will be several sent soon, and I make sure I am heard...

[wombat]

There is one thing CGC can't do. And that is send you the wrong book. It should be the golden rule that under penalty of death can't happen. And here we are. 

[Qalyar]

On 9/29/2022 at 7:16 PM, Bird said:

I used to be (much more) naive and perhaps I am too cynical to think that outright theft is the most likely answer. So I guess I should give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe it isn't outright theft by a cgc employee and gross incompetence is the answer

I feel theft is an impractical explanation here. Perhaps is #101 was the affected book, but it seems very strange that a thief would pick a much less valuable book in the same submission to target. Sadly, especially given the trend of recent process failures, I think comprehensive incompetence and institutional apathy are the most likely causes.

@CGC Mike Appreciated, but is there any chance that you -- or some other representative -- can give us some sort of public feedback on this one? The error itself is bad, but pretty much any chain of events I can envision that would lead to this involves some pretty serious mishandling of submitters' books. Having this happen immediately before you're going to start getting newsstand reholders is not, let's say, encouraging.

[Sigur Ros]

On 9/29/2022 at 8:16 PM, D2 said:

I will keep everyone up to speed with what’s happening. 
 

So far no one from CGC has reached back. 

I am hoping it’s because everyone is scratching their heads wondering what to respond back with. 

Or maybe it's because they're busy trying to save their homes while suffering through a major hurricane....

[jcjames]

On 9/29/2022 at 4:00 PM, jsilverjanet said:

for the premiums we have been asked to pay in the past year (increase across all tiers) the quality has instead of improving gotten worse

the mistakes now include damage, lost or misplaced books

the simple answers aren't enough. There needs to be a change made. This is not acceptable.

continuing to operate despite all these errors is negligent on a company that prided itself on its reputation

 

They'll only understand the bottom line. 

Other than Mike's messages here, is there ANY sign or communication from them that indicates any change in their company-attitude towards customer satisfaction or measurable quality control? 

When enough people stop submitting books, they MIGHT wonder why. Maybe.

But for now, they're still like....

 

And...

 

And maybe even a little...

 

[CGC Mike]

On 9/29/2022 at 8:52 PM, Qalyar said:

@CGC Mike Appreciated, but is there any chance that you -- or some other representative -- can give us some sort of public feedback on this one? The error itself is bad, but pretty much any chain of events I can envision that would lead to this involves some pretty serious mishandling of submitters' books. Having this happen immediately before you're going to start getting newsstand reholders is not, let's say, encouraging.

It was at the top of the VERY LONG e-mail for QC which gets distributed or bought to the attention of  nearly everyone who handles the books.  I'll try and see what the QC manager finds out.

[D2]

On 9/29/2022 at 8:56 PM, Sigur Ros said:

Or maybe it's because they're busy trying to save their homes while suffering through a major hurricane....

I do understand that my issue is insignificant to the impact on peoples’ lives due to a natural disaster. 
 

I did not intend or demand immediate action outside of regular business hours and transactions that would take a normal priority. 
 

If CGC and its employees are directly affected from the terrible tragedy of Ian, then I would entirely understand a delay in response. 
 

That being said, when business returns to normal, I would like to know what happened and where my book is. 

[Buzzetta]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:53 PM, jsilverjanet said:

there are mistakes and then there are mistakes

if errors like this are happening on a consistent basis, your operation needs an overhaul

It's been over two years since I have sent any books to CGC outside of 1 book for a signing opportunity. 

It's looking like we are going to go to three. 

[Krydel4]

Life is like a CGC Submission, you'll never know what your gonna get back. So fingers crossed and say my prayers for an Action 1 swap.

[Gaard]

Here, and now here.

"Today, CGC is the world's largest and most trusted third-party grading service..."

not sure about that trusted part

[theCapraAegagrus]

What the CGC?

[Dr. Balls]

On 9/29/2022 at 6:42 PM, wombat said:

There is one thing CGC can't do. And that is send you the wrong book. It should be the golden rule that under penalty of death can't happen. And here we are. 

I think this is how the world works now, and no one cares - because for every person they screw up on, there’s 20 more waiting to give them money for their grading service at the next convention.

I was an Apple advocate since I got my first computer at age 10 (40 years ago). When Steve Jobs died, he took the soul of Apple with him. The company is garbage now from a user standpoint - profit over quality. Same thing here. CGC was great, and that era is over. I’m not getting rid of my slabs or saying:  “I’m not buying them!” . We’re stuck with them because there’s no better alternative- but the quality of CGC will never be the same as it was a few years ago.

Forget “newsstand editions”. The new hot selling point will be “pre-Blackstone graded” - keep those old slabs, they’re going to be more valuable soon!

Edited September 30, 2022 by Dr. Balls