Beware…Fake high value CGC books in Pacific Northwest 14 14

[Dick Pontoon]

I would avoid people I don't know selling $50,000 books on social media sites.

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:20 AM, WolverineX said:

true, but at some point, those fonts could be an exact duplicate and then what do we do...

There’s no “we”.  I don’t buy slabs anymore 

[WolverineX]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:43 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

There’s no “we”.  I don’t buy slabs anymore 

Why not?  I thought you were buying last year?   Because of this?

[Mr. Zipper]

On 2/20/2023 at 7:22 AM, Larryw7 said:

I remember the founders of CGC telling us they were leading collectors out of the "wild west" of the pre slabbing era. How has that been working for y'all?

High value collectibles and slabs in every area of collectibles are counterfeited. Yet the authentication/grading companies make it a lot more difficult and raise the barrier of entry to scammers.

Are you saying less fraud would be occurring in their absence?

[Mr. Zipper]

Certainly there are subtle differences in the font and kerning. And at least one other thing I noticed. 

It's easy to spot when you have a side-by-side. Not so much if you don't.

[Northwest]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:20 AM, WolverineX said:

true, but at some point, those fonts could be an exact duplicate and then what do we do...

A few options:

1. Lookup graders notes and compare to book description

2. Look closely at the ink on the book. To be safe use magnification.

3. In this case (pun intended), the overall weight would also be a tell.

4.  There are security measures beyond the font e.g. hologram and others.  Verify those are legit.

5. Buy from venues and sellers you trust especially for high value items. Use buyer protection online. Craigslist is a magnet for unreputable listings.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Northwest

[WolverineX]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:43 AM, Northwest said:

A few options:

1. Lookup graders notes and compare to book description

2. Look closely at the ink on the book. To be safe use magnification.

3. In this case (pun intended), the overall weight would also be a tell.

4.  There are security measures beyond the font e.g. hologram and others.  Verify those are legit.

5. Buy from venues and sellers you trust especially for high value items. Use buyer protection online. Craigslist is a magnet for unrepeatable listings.

Good advice.  

[Gonzimodo]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:56 AM, VintageComics said:

You can bet your butt CGC / Blackstone are looking for a solution to this.

The only reason CGC is in business is because they build trust into the product. If you eliminate the trust you no longer have a product.

There's no way they're going to let a $500 Million + company slide into obsolescence because of some criminals. 

Unfortunately, I think we're rapidly approaching that point, if the ship hasn't already sailed.  Due to all the ridiculously bad, amateurish quality control issues I've been seeing, I have no desire to gamble on trusting them with any of my books, and I am clearly not the only one.

 

[jsilverjanet]

I would think if you are paying 50k for a book, or anything similar $ wise you'd take the time to ensure what you are buying is not a fake

if you are concerned about fakes, better to pay more from a trusted and established seller (of which there are a ton of)

I cannot tell you the # of times I've seen an amazing fantasy 15 (or similar) listed on CL, FB that the price seems to good to be true

I never made an attempt to contact because it was more a gamble that a "miracle buy"

the CGC label and case should not be a reason for people for them not to do their homework

not trying to be harsh, but people do your due diligence when making substantial purchases

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/20/2023 at 9:55 AM, WolverineX said:

Why not?  I thought you were buying last year?   Because of this?

I was buying last year.  Didn’t enjoy my purchases at all.  Strictly raw going forward.  

[jsilverjanet]

On 2/20/2023 at 10:34 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Strictly raw going forward.  

[Tnexus]

Best solution to this is to supply watermarked photos of every slabbed book in the census. I know it's only useful to books going forward, but it would make it harder to counterfeit.

Too bad they didn't do this earlier when they still had time to prepare for this problem instead of trying to monetize it.

[davidpg]

On 2/20/2023 at 11:11 AM, jsilverjanet said:

I would think if you are paying 50k for a book, or anything similar $ wise you'd take the time to ensure what you are buying is not a fake

if you are concerned about fakes, better to pay more from a trusted and established seller (of which there are a ton of)

I cannot tell you the # of times I've seen an amazing fantasy 15 (or similar) listed on CL, FB that the price seems to good to be true

I never made an attempt to contact because it was more a gamble that a "miracle buy"

the CGC label and case should not be a reason for people for them not to do their homework

not trying to be harsh, but people do your due diligence when making substantial purchases

The thing about this is that those scams were there to try to get you to send cash before getting the book, hoping to catch someone with a heavy case of FOMO.  Here, you're getting a tangible (fake!) item in hand.  This is something we haven't really seen before in our arena.  

I think there's gonna have to be a new kind of way to identify books...an RF chip embedded with each book in the the case might work.  Like pets!

[greggy]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:34 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

I was buying last year.  Didn’t enjoy my purchases at all.  Strictly raw going forward.  

You love the purchase you made from me so don't lie.

You even got me to apologize for being an arse.

xoxo

greggy

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:46 PM, greggy said:

You love the purchase you made from me so don't lie.

You even got me to apologize for being an arse.

xoxo

greggy

[thehumantorch]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:38 AM, Mr. Zipper said:

Certainly there are subtle differences in the font and kerning. And at least one other thing I noticed. 

It's easy to spot when you have a side-by-side. Not so much if you don't.

And that's where I'm at.  Side by side if I look carefully at both cases and compare I can see a difference but it isn't really obvious to me and I doubt I could spot it without the side by side comparison.  And what do we do when these crooks refine their 'product' and we can't see a difference?

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:17 PM, thehumantorch said:

And that's where I'm at.  Side by side if I look carefully at both cases and compare I can see a difference but it isn't really obvious to me and I doubt I could spot it without the side by side comparison.  And what do we do when these crooks refine their 'product' and we can't see a difference?

 

Or they just buy legit slabs, crack the books out & use the real labels/cases for their fakes.   Resub the actual books .  Rinse and repeat 

[Dick Pontoon]

But again what about some due diligence or just some common sense? There’s about as much chance of a copy of Hulk #1 or Cap #1 offered at fraction of FMV from an unknown person on social media being legit as the Rolodex some guy is selling on a street corner.

[Gonzimodo]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:24 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

Or they just buy legit slabs, crack the books out & use the real labels/cases for their fakes.   Resub the actual books .  Rinse and repeat 

I've often wondered if that's the case with some of the really awful-looking 9.6s and 9.8s I've seen for sale over the years...  (Yes, I know, "Buy the book, not the label...")

[VintageComics]

On 2/20/2023 at 6:57 AM, Sigur Ros said:

You're talking about a company who missed incorrect back covers on at least 3 books (that I know of) in a pedigree collection they made a huge deal over, not to mention all the overgrading in that same collection and their daily struggle to get correct labels on books.   

What trust are you talking about?

There have been stories of CGC QC errors, grading variations and the like for 24 years but the market MOSTLY trusted CGC for over 20 years.  

Every single human and every company makes mistakes. 

I'm talking about the type of trust that tips the scales and destroys a product. 

They have graded MILLIONS of comics. Like what? 10 million now? More? You can have 1000's of mistakes and they can still be TRUST WORTHY. 

This is one of those things that can tip scales and I'm sure a company approaching a value of $1 Billion is not going to just let this slide.

That was my point.